>it's another agnostics don't know the definition of atheism thread
Kevin Wright
The difference is, you say that no God exists, even if you don't know. We don't know and we say we don't know.
William Turner
Apatheism is the only logical answer.
Lucas Thomas
Agnostics are most retarded, to be honest. > Actually, we doesn't know nothing! XD > Can you prove that claim, comrade agnostic? > How can I, if we doesn't know nothing? XD > I think that we know at least... something. > Don't be a retard! We totally ignorant about everything! XD See how it works as logical position? Agnosticism fails as epistemology, because it is a position of conscious ignorance.
Gavin Scott
nope, you are just refusing to say that you lack belief. you either do believe or you don't. no atheists make a claim of absolute knowledge in the nonexistence of God. this is just a strawman you use you appear as the "reasonable" middle ground between two extremes even though you are identical to 90% of atheists
Gabriel Jenkins
>no atheists make a claim of absolute knowledge in the nonexistence of God
Some do claim that they actually know that the Abrahamic God specifically (the only god that matters) cannot exist, because of Problem of Evil or other paradoxes.
Elijah Scott
Apatheism is the religion of the domesticated consumerist who does not ask questions but only sleeps, eats, fucks and buys.
Bentley Taylor
that's a different question. as much as it is possible to be certain of knowledge, I am sure the christian conception of God isn't real. along with logical paradoxes in this version of God plenty of archeological evidence contradicts the bible at key parts (not just Genesis 1, all of Exodus, Numbers, Judges, even Samuel and parts of Kings and Chronicles) and the textual history of the documents in the bible makes it seem very unlikely to be divinely inspired, especially when some documents such as Deuteronomy and Daniel are known forgeries
Easton Nguyen
The Amazing Atheist claims it. He says ;there is no God' all the time. He's just one example, though.
How can you prove a shrug of the shoulders when it comes to religion?
You can't prove Agnosticism, because Agnosticism is the position of accusing both sides of having no proof for their assertions and shrugging your shoulders.
Neither Atheists nor Theists can prove their position.
Dominic Martinez
Maybe the Christian God is false. Maybe all human religions are false.
But what you need to prove to justify your position is that there is no deity at all.
The universe is simply too expansive and our planet too tiny and insignificant for us to understand it fully. It is ego to believe otherwise.
We can get very far with astrology, but not far enough to answer such a question.
Austin Flores
>But what you need to prove to justify your position is that there is no deity at all. Jesus, I already said this isn't my position. I only claim to be pretty certain the christian god doesn't exist
Brody Jackson
What you first need to do is convince people that the question is worth even answering. If god excists or not wont affect anyones life in any meaningful way so the whole question is irelevant.
Justin Morgan
> How can you prove a shrug of the shoulders when it comes to religion? You can prove that something doesn't exist because of contradictions to facts or between statements themselves. God can prove that he exist by well-document miracle. We doesn't seen any but possibility is here if God is real. You can also try to make much more deeper arguments from philosophy of knowledge and such. On the other hand, what is a merit to say that you can't prove anything because you kind of feel like it? > accusing both sides of having no proof Both sides have some arguments and evidence. Agnostics just ignore it because you can't prove anything perfectly. Try to play that card in court and see how well it works.
Adrian Taylor
> Neither Atheists nor Theists can prove their position. Can you prove it? What is your generalized proof in that case? Let me guess, you have nothing so your position should literally be just as baseless.
Brody Brooks
yeah well actually we can't know anything for certain because we only experience the world through flawed subjective senses that sometimes just tell us absolute bullshit lol so like people who say they know anything are stupid lmao
Gabriel Rodriguez
How can you claim to be certain the Christian God doesn't exist? Do you have some evidence that the rest of us don't? The only true answer to this question while we're still alive is "I don't know."
If the question isn't worth answering, then why is there always debate between both sides?
Kayden Wright
> Christian God doesn't exist Christian God is omnipotent, that is self-contraction that leads to countless paradoxes and such absurd objects doesn't exist in the world. The same way how you can prove there there is no four-angle triangle, user.
Hudson Parker
False equivalence. I can taste this tea next to me now. I know it is there.
There is proof that it is there in that someone else can come over and pick it up.
God is a completely different thing. An Atheist cannot tell me a God does not exist, and a Theist cannot tell me a God does exist.
Landon Flores
Youre talking like people dont argue over nothing all the time.
Bentley Clark
> I can taste this tea next to me now. I know it is there. Could be a mental hallucination or even the tea-flavored imitation. You can't know for sure.
Camden Moore
Then how come others can pick it up and confirm that it is tea?
Unless you're a Solipsist, this argument is shit.
Nicholas Ortiz
Certainly not at Veeky Forums.
Cooper Gomez
On*
Ian Thomas
>How can you claim to be certain the Christian God doesn't exist?
The problem of evil.
Lincoln Rogers
There is nothing bad with evil.
Nicholas Harris
>u cant know nuffin, im so enlightened compared to these atheists(even though im one too rofl) and theists who actually stand their ground To the trash.
Nathan Fisher
>hurr durr you have to stand your ground!!!!!! >it's a constant war between theists and atheists >pick your side!! idiots
Ethan Jones
So is metaphysical knowledge impossible?
Landon Jones
yes
Christopher Morris
Agnostic here, OP is right
Ryder Taylor
>It is not possible for us to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Show me, using a sound argument, that this proposition is true.
Cameron Myers
it's a deity and we're human it's always beyond our comprehension
Kevin Walker
As a Christian I only know trough hearing and mystical experience, direct revelation.
I also strengthened my faith more than anything trough reading the gospels.
Ian Johnson
>You can't prove Agnosticism
So it's false, right? According to itself? Oh wait no, because it has the same special snowflake argument of "y-you don't have to prove it" that you accuse atheists of.
Bentley Price
I wish we could go back to the distinction between gnosticism and theism but the two ideas have been inexorably intertwined in the public consciousness for some reason.
Julian Jackson
That's not even an argument. The conclusion has nothing to do with, and cannot be logically derived from, the premise.
Blake Allen
I have never in my entire life met an agnostic who understands epistemology. Most don't even know the word.
Kayden Collins
>Can you prove it? >proving a negative
You cannot prove what is not, only what is. To make a claim is the assertion that the claim is true, and therefore can be proved.
Samuel Reyes
>That's not even an argument it is so hard to accept that?
Eli Rivera
>you can't prove a negative
Reddit-tier pseudo-intellectualism. You clearly have no clue of what you are talking about.
Luis Nelson
If you were ACTUALLY logical, you'd realize that you're just an atheist who is more pretentious than usual.
Wyatt Garcia
A valid argument has conclusions that logically follow from the premises. Your "argument" did no such thing.
Carter Hall
>mfw theists
Owen Torres
Well it doesn't require solipsism. It just needs to be reasonably tea-like enough to fool multiple observers, while not being tea.
You can't know anything for certain user. I'm not in the "You can't know nuffin" boat though. That's what we falsifiable hypotheses for, reasonable approximations of the world.
You can't ever prove a negative claim for certain because that would require disproving potentially infinite falsifiable hypotheses about your opposing position. The most you can do with a negative claim is sufficiently satisfy your curiosity and just drop the unsubstantiated opposing claim. What you can do however is prove a positive claim by providing a falsifiable hypothesis for it and proving it to be correct. That's really kind of the basis for my atheism. Call it agnosticism light if you want but I just can't be convinced to not drop god as an idea since there isn't even a falsifiable hypothesis I could think of or that has been proposed that would prove the concept existed.
Fine. Explain your position besides just Ad hominem.
Oliver Young
Oh wait. I didn't read the entire comment chain and misinterpreted.
Adrian Long
Are you unfamiliar with modus tollens arguments? Literally Phil 101 stuff.
Logan Long
That's 99% of the population.
Tyler Baker
Yea, because "undomesticated" humans were probably asking really deep questions.
Benjamin Rivera
Apatheism is not even a philosophical view. It's just an attitude towards a topic. Apatheism is of no academic interest.
Hudson Jenkins
If your first premise is potentially flawed then a Modus Tollens argument seems like it can still be reasoned to be potentially false. Rather essentially the modus tollens argument seems like just another way of saying that I set up a falsifiable hypothesis and consequently disproved it in my previous scenario.
If you do not possess a first premise that has been recognized as valid by the opposition (even if the opposition is yourself) then the modus tollens argument can't be properly used to prove a negative.
That's my take on the matter at least. If you have an objection or if I've misinterpreted the Modus Tollens argument then feel free to inform me.
Mason Howard
Indeed, you could say if god excists is academically uninstering to some. What does it matter what the answer is? You cant interact with it and it wont affect your life in anyway.
Cameron Martinez
You're retarded, most atheist are agnostic, and a lot of theists are as well. Agnostic is not a term that's mutually exclusive with theism/atheism.
Aaron Garcia
This is something that I have realized.
People argue all the time about God because they think they are proving the truth or falsity of religion, when really it's impossible to make a legitimate connection between some metaphysical being you could call "God" and some ancient writings in the desert.
Grayson Richardson
>agnostics still want to be special snowflakes You're an atheist and an a agnostic. Get over it.
Blake Roberts
The label "agnostic" is used instead often instead of "atheist" because the latter is more associated with "militant" atheism, so many more religion tolerant or even pro-religion atheists avoid it.
Dylan Bailey
> You cannot prove what is not, only what is. Logicians proves negative statements all the time, despite that retarded claim that repeated over and over. For example, you can prove that planet Mars doesn't exist in your fucking home. I fact, you can trivially made any statement negative one, there is God equals to there is no atheist who can be right. You literally doesn't know laws of logic if you says that you can't prove negative because there is one of the basic laws of logic that does exactly this. It is a law of excluding middle and it prove that there is no other option for both contradictory statement to be true at the same time! That is why your Law of You Can't Prove What Is Not is reddit tier meme and pseudo intellectualism of the worst kind.
Liam Anderson
I don't know for a certainty that God does not exist, but I also see no reason to believe he exists, so I'll stick with calling myself an atheist.
Colton Green
"Burden on proof is on the one making the positive claim" somehow got distorted into "You can't prove a negative" and everyone started repeating it brainlessly.
> You cannot prove what is not, only what is. This statement contradict itself because you can prove that there are no negatives proofs, applying it to itself. You literally rely on logical absurdity to even made that claim.
Jackson Parker
> everyone started repeating it brainlessly user, please. "Burden on proof is on the one making the positive claim" is also the meme. Burden is actually on who made a statement originally. That is why people can't just deny Holocaust by shifting the burden on prove to whoever believe in it. Correct statement that misquoted here is that it is hard to prove the universal negation with an absolute certainty, which made sense if it is your standard to be absolutely certain and not rely on more weak logical methods like probabilistic proves, etc.
Carson Scott
And the former somehow got distorted from just being good argumentative practice into some sort of iron clad law of logic.
Benjamin Bennett
Will people ever fucking learn?
Sebastian Thompson
Jesus is God and must have perfect knowledge since God is omniscient. Jesus thought Moses wrote the Torah. this is simply not true. Moses would have been alive in the 1400s BC, when hebrew didn't exist as a language. King Josiah "found" a book of the Law during his reign in the 600s BC and was able to read it in hebrew. at least some of the Torah is likely to be a forgery made during Josiah's time. Jesus didn't know this, therefore he isn't God
Nathaniel Ramirez
To god-agnostics, are you also a Matrix agnostic? Are you agnostic about the question whether we are in a computer simulation or not?
Isaac Gonzalez
>I'm atheist but have no rational motivation for being one "Agnostic" atheism is literally "muh feels".
Unless you give an argument for atheism , then stop identifyin as one
Austin Barnes
>God literally walked the Earth and told us about himself >but it's somehow more logical to be agnostic
k
Robert Ross
even in the categories in ? what exactly is more justified here?
Eli Diaz
Pretty sure if god excists is based on muh feels no matter your stance.
Brody Butler
I already disproved that he was God
James Carter
In the absence of argument none is more justified.
If I see a large crowd and someone asks me if the amount of people is even or not then I'd simply say I dont know, rather than saying "even, but I'm an agnostic evenist ". If you think that statement has some meaning then you don't really know what Agnosticism means. It pretty much is a suspension of judgement.
Nicholas Gutierrez
But hypothetically both even and odd have equal odds of being true. Same is not true for theism which is significantly dwarfed in probability by atheism.
Austin Gutierrez
Taken abstractly they have the same probability. But concretely they don't
Lincoln Jones
atheists don't have to prove anything since they don't make a positive claim.
atheists do not believe into a god because there is NO evidence for its existence.
face it you are wrong about the concept of atheism we never claimed that there is no god we just dont believe there is one since there is 0 evidence.
Brayden Johnson
You're the reason so many atheists call themselves agnostic because you've made the term into something it isn't. Most atheists don't believe in god in the same way they don't believe about anything else that hasn't been proven to exist. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot This is all there is to it.
Adrian Russell
Agnosticism isn't about believing in a god, but about knowing if there is or there isn't a god. It isn't a theological but an epistemological position, so it can't even be called a "centrism".
Bentley Cooper
Come to the UU. We accept anybody!
(Anybody at all! It's, kinda sad, really...)
Alexander Torres
This guy gets it
Nicholas Evans
Most atheists are agnostic, just take the title of atheist to piss off religious people.
Ayden Foster
yeah yeah yeah, we get it youre retarded, its not a competition, you dont need to show it off
Jack Cook
>Most atheists are agnostic, just take the title of atheist to piss off religious people.
*most agnostics are atheist, just remove the title of atheist because theyre pussies who are afraid of the word atheist and the fedora meme*
FTFY
Jason Harris
> they don't make a positive claim. Holocaust never happened! I don't have to prove anything.
Henry Fisher
>If the question isn't worth answering, then why is there always debate between both sides?
Because people like you start threads like this you fucking faggot.
Have some self-insight.
Blake Wood
What really matters is that you found a way to feel superior in an ocean of piss
William Gutierrez
...
Jeremiah Taylor
so youre saying that the proof for god has the same validity as the proof for holocaust?
Jeremiah Bailey
This is the most hypocritical comic ever conceived
Ayden Green
how exactly? just look at this thread agnostics think theyre superior when they dont even know what words mean
Colton Lopez
It's self-aware.
Brayden Campbell
I mostly say that baseless denial is a degenerate logical position. You should always back up your words instead of trying to shift responsibility for a finding Truth, to someone who doesn't agree with your baseless statements.
David Perez
If atheists are illogical...
And theists are too...
Then... then...
ARE MIDTHEISTS ILLOGICAL?
Matthew Butler
how is it even close to baseles? i mean its a pretty basic fedora argument, but i asume you dont believe in dragons, are you illogical for that, are you trying to shift responsibility of finding the truth? NO YOURE NOT, if theres no evidence for something then you dont have an obligation to believe in it just because some people take it very seriosuly
Jason Anderson
How it would be logical. > I believe that X is false! > So... Can you prove that? > Because A, B, C, D and E. How your scenario works. > I believe that X is false! > So... Can you prove that? > Can YOU prove that it isn't? XD You can clearly see where is legit discussion and where being clear retardation of polemics. You can believe in whatever you want, but if you establish a certain believe is a true one, you should back up a statement by arguments. Be it negative one or the positive one.
Grayson Gomez
You understand that people get annoyed at agnostics for the same reasons people get annoyed at centrists, right?
Owen Long
so you think that believing in god is the default position? is that really logical to you? kk then, ill claim whatever the fuck i want and then when you dont believe it you have to prove it
(im superman btw and if you dont cut off your middle finger ill fly over to you and cut off the whole hand)
>Can YOU prove that it isn't? XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDD
the default position goes something like this btw
>i believe god exists >well i dont because you dont have any proof and as soon as you get any i will believe you