How can a Jew, or anyone for that matter, justify God's existence and the necessity of evil after this? How do you witness people getting baked in ovens, their screams silenced by throats melting shut, skin sloughing like a serpent shedding and be scared of the Hell that awaits the disbelieving? You're in it already. Life is garbage, and no amount of love for God will change that. Is this a test? What is the question, oh Great Teacher? How long it takes to lose all hope in virtue? What are these Chosen People chosen for? To suffer above everyone else? Why pray? Why? What good does it do? Will a miracle ever occur in your sight, so as to give you some sort of reason for continuing? No, miracles are for people who lived thousands of years ago, not you! But nevertheless, I won't keep you from groveling enough to the incorporeal air so as to get your all-expense paid trip to Sugarcandy Mountain
How can a Jew, or anyone for that matter, justify God's existence and the necessity of evil after this...
I await the 500+ replies to this thread.
Faith helped many survive the camps and in turn go on to live fairly healthy lives. There's even been studies on this.
I'd say it was worth it since Jews finally returned to their promised land after 2000 years of wandering.
actually in judaism throughout the decades following the holocaust there was sort of a mass-atheist movement where people started abandoning the religion
well Jews don't quite hold God to be as perfect as Christians do. Elie Wiesel for example has refused to say that God could have a justified reason for allowing the Holocaust to happen yet still worships him nonetheless
Very simple m8. God is not the master of this world. The devil is.
I believe Jesus said that in the gospel of John.
Is this a meme
*the demiurge is
ftfy
Christians, Jews and Muslims have suffered persecution, either at the hands of their own believers, or others who try to force their beliefs unto us. All three of these religions have carried out horrible acts in the names of their faith, and have demonised other cultures as a result, which leads to a constant cycle of hatred and violence.
The Jews founded Israel, and like them or hate them, they are one of the most effective fighting forces in the world.
They pledged "NEVER AGAIN". The Jews have faced persecution, but like Christians, we have seen reform within the faith, and most of us have abandoned the barbaric beliefs that plague other cultures in the middle east (which demonise the west).
To say that god exists? I'm not too sure. But if there is one thing that I know, its that human beings are savage creatures. We rape, kill, steal, exploit, trick, destroy, bully, and censor. Everyone regardless of race or belief, has committed heinous acts, Caucasian, Negro, Mongol, Jewish, Christian or Muslim.
Such is the horror of man.
>WHY GOD NOT MAKE LIFE PERFECT?????
>HOW GOD REAL IF BAD THING HAPPEN????
this my grandparents came from an orthodox family and became atheists after the Holocaust, bitterly atheist, they would talk of God with a sort of disgust.
>almighty
>good
>understandable
Pick two
Because none of it happened
I wrote this in this exact thread you made yesterday or the day before.
The holocaust is not a surprise. It is the same old pogrom but using modern industrial means.
Did jews stop believing after pogroms?
Did jews stop believing after they were exiled from israel?
Should a jew stop believing because he lost his hat?
The problem of evil is not new nor unique to religious jews.
It was in fact the jewish monotheism that was structured on god's punishment.
They decided that instead of their god losing versus other gods that he was actually the only one and they lost or won because he was either punishing or rewarding them.
Jews stopping to believe in god as a result of a traumatic event are jews who are angry at being jewish. At taking part in the very specific jewish narrative that has always included hate and violence from others.
> GOD CAN DO ANYTHING AND LITERALLY ALL WHAT HE DOES IS GOOD! XD
> but he wouldn't save even one human from death instead sending millions to hell to suffer even more XD
>you
Jews have been blamed for every ill and problem in the christian world. They have been the scapegoats of Christendom and thus the one's through whom's sacrifice christians dealt with their internal conflicts and symptoms.
Is it strange that christians believe in jewish christ's self sacrifice for their salvation and the fact they have been torturing and killing jews ever since as a way to deal with their own social dis-harmonies and conflicts?
>narrative that has always included hate and violence from others as a way to self affirm*
There was actually a major Jewish screenplay on this topic, called "God on Trial".
>Did the Amalekites think that Adonai was just? Did the mothers of Egypt, the mothers... did they think that Adonai was just?
>But Adonai is our God.
>Surely... Oh, what, did God not make the Egyptians? Did he not make their rivers and make their crops grow?
>If not him, then who? What, some... some other god?
>And what did he make them for? To punish them? To starve, to frighten, to slaughter them? The people of Amalek, the people of Egypt... what was it like for them when Adonai turned against them? It was like this. Today, there was a selection, yes? When David defeated the Moabites, what did he do? He made them lie on the ground in lines, and he chose one to live and two to die. We are become the Moabites. We are learning how it was for the Amalekites. They faced extinction at the hand of Adonai. They died for his purpose. They fell as we are falling. They were afraid as we are afraid. And what did they learn?
>They learned...
>that Adonai, the Lord our God...
>our God...
>is not good.
>He is not good.
>He was not ever good.
>He was only on our side.
.
>On their belts, they had written, "Gott mit uns." "God is with us." Now, who is to say that he is not?
>He has made a new covenant with someone else.
>How can a Jew, or anyone for that matter, justify God's existence and the necessity of evil after this?
does that change the fact that there were people who opposed the Germans and saved Jews? What about people from Argentina or Brazil? Should they also feel responsibility for the Holocaust? Why shouldn't they look at themselves as good people?
See, only a secular jew could have written this...
Its completely unjewish.
Praises be upon Hashem the most high!
Punishment for sins or YHWH testing their collective faith
Religions are great at hand waving and justifying anything
>justifying
Its not justifying, its encompassing. Any religious group must encompass major occurrences.
Or do you mean that all remaining jews should have just made a pffff sound and stopped being jewish?
Bad things always happen. Conflicts always happen. It was so even at the time of the formation of anciant religions, so why would conflict and sadness not be encompassed in them?
Hand waving to justify the existence of their God and the legitimacy of their religion. I should have written a clearer post
Insufferable arrogance.
> he thinks that the ovens were used to burn people alive
>He actually goes on /pol/
le hat meme
>he doesn't believe in things that have no supporting evidence, but plenty to the contrary
to paraphrase hegel, dialectical struggle is eternal and only through struggle, which entails suffering and death, can we realize the synthesis of opposing forces by which god realizes himself through us. in other words, the holocaust was necessary :^).
The strength of disbelief is strong, but the strength of the belief can be even stronger.
Sometimes it is hard to accept anything supernatural like "God is here with you" but that is because something in (you) is closed off to receiving it, and only you can find the source and tear it out.
As for "Why does this happen to other people" no one person can give a satisfying answer because it isn't our answer to give out fully. God isn't behind the scenes "muh hahaha burn". God loves His children and some of His children wander off and make no plan to ever return. If someone goes through suffering, it is because of cause and effect, a person might make another person suffer and eventually recieve suffering for making someone else suffer.
No answer can satisfy anyone if they are not willing to listen to it, and not every answer is going to be a simple "well because x Y and z"
And yet your answers are absolutely basic and retarded.
I guess all those jewish infants made their moms suffer by not letting them sleep properly at night and thus deserves being gassed to death.
Having been to Israel, I can say that a huge number of the people there aren't particularly religious anymore. They're culturally jewish, and are almost all extreme zionists, but when it comes to the religion they want nothing to do with it.
The Holocaust turned most (surviving) Jews back then into atheists for precisely that reason.
Had they read their own prophecies with any understanding, they would have known that God was going to rebuild Israel from their dry bones.
They are just used to believing. Massive amounts of them did become athiests, but their religion continued on. A shame, since their god abandoned them to Jesus and got himself a new chosen people to fuel his bloody wars. We call them Muslims.
Extreme zionists? wtf does that mean..
I go to /pol/ and its full of neo nazis bashing zionism.
I go to Veeky Forums and liberals lecture me how "zionism" is evil.
Its always funny to see lefties finding common grounds with neo nazis and muslims.
>god isn't real
>The holocaust wasn't real either
>Extreme zionists? wtf does that mean..
Hmmm durrr what does Zionism entail I wonder...
The stupidity on this board is astounding at times.
Please tell me what extreme Zionism is referring to.
Because nobody likes zionism except a zionist.
Neo-zionism, Revisionist zionism, zionist political violence, Jewish religious terrorism, Jewish supremacism, what Netanyahu himself calls the "Jewish jihad", etc.
Basically everything violent or pro-violence that doesn't involve anti-zionists such as the Haredim.
>literal muslim and far left propoganda.
Zionism is simply the idea that jews should have their own homeland.
A homeland that should be taken at the expense of non-Jews. It's pure exceptionalism
actually no. Zionism originally was just Jews buying land in Palestine. it was the British who decided the best solution to the tension between the two groups was a two state solution, causing more overt nationalism
Exactly, fucking fags who think the ovens were used for murder.
What do you expect: God just lightning-bolting all the nazis once they started getting bad?
In what way is the jewish immigration and escaspe from pogroms in Europe not the same as syrian refugees escaping to europe? With one difference of course, jews were actually buying land.
Because the jewish immigration was justified through their status that is given to them through their religion and ancestry, which means Israel can't ever be secular and democratic. Syrians could be from any religion and they will not implement their rules and statutes in the countries they move to.