The meaning of ART

I've noticed fedoras often dislike or take no interests in the arts. Typically they seem to think they're too smart for it and have, in their mind, figured out it's a sham. "It's just slabbed on color lol", "noone actually likes classical music it's just elitist circlejerking".
Non-fiction, such as history books, are preferred over fiction and "there's no point of philosophy when there's science".

Is low disregard for the arts a sign of lacking intellectualism? Is it not a patrician thing to be cultured and actually enjoy art, always being open-minded?
Why do so many young men in modern times disregard all things art?

Other urls found in this thread:

vimeo.com/101804860
ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_massive_scale_online_collaboration?language=en
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>all those strawmen

You are the one who sounds like an elitist

Because in our version of a global capitalistic society (from a western viewpoint) productiveness is the highest virtue. The economy has to grow for our standard of life to be kept high, as we cannot allow the economies of poorer countries to catch up. So we produce more and more. Work harder and harder. And there simply isn't much of a niche left for art that is not easily and quickly consumed, that cannot be capitalized upon.

having arguments with yourself is a sign of schizophrenia, might want to see a shrink.

When will Americans pay reparations for their cultural imperialism?

>having arguments with yourself is a sign of schizophrenia
Really isn't. It's rather a sign of sanity.

>"noone actually likes classical music it's just elitist circlejerking".

haha what?

I'd love a friend who'd shut up and enjoy the complete Ring Cycle with me (preferably naked)

You and my gf should meet. She always gets angry at me because I start talking when she plays Mozart or some other music that I apparently should be insanely awed by.

The complete Ring Cycle are four operas by Richard Wagner, all in all 13 hours of listening and cuddling pleasure.

Sounds like you two would have a great time and I could pick her up and bang her after.

>(preferably naked)

Tell me more.

>Wagner

cringe

Wagner is the Justin Bieber of opera.

What.

Even I, the plebbiest of plebians living in a pleb country that values material wealth above all, can appreciate art and classical music, even if I can't be awed by it.

Fedoras are just uncultured swine.

>I've noticed fedoras often dislike or take no interests in the arts
I noticed that fedoras generally shit on modern (or what they think is modern) and abstract art a lot while praising meme paintings like Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog.

>while praising meme paintings like Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog.
Or this one.

>Sounds like you two would have a great time and I could pick her up and bang her after.

I can take care of the banging too.

I just want someone who also likes the things I like

barbarian

>VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1880: The man I am having dinner with is a barbarian.

>fedoras
Do you even know what a fedora is

Well... Classical art is outdated and modern art is really kind of elitist circle jerking. If you want to be a part of serious modern culture life, then the only option for you here is to read some philosopher or maybe popular scientist.

Fedora, a felt hat popular during mid-20th century.

Fedora, a term colloquially used to describe pseudo-intellectuals trying to be contrarian and latching onto something appearing "deep", often without having any actual substance. It stems from many people with that mindset wearing fedoras, thinking they would automatically make them look classy and sophistciated.

>popular scientist

> many people with that mindset wearing fedoras
Is this true? I don't live in America so never met a one in life. Like did you see one himself?

>pretending to like classical music because you think it makes you intellectual
You're the real fedora here.

I'm European too but I've seen too many photos to be able to discard that it is a real thing.
I think it's because of that American TV-show "Mad Men". Delusional manchildren thought they could look like Don Draper.

Modern art is a money laundering scheme.

I agree whole heartedly with OP, having been a fedora myself for a certain time, and having converted back to theism in part due to art, and especially the music of JS Bach.

For an atheist art is merely a form of sensory satisfaction, no different than eating food or having sex. There is a book on music by a scientist, I don't remember the name, that says that listening to music is literally no different than eating a cheesecake. For Marxists, it may additionally serve as a means of propaganda/indoctrination, but that's it. This are no straw men because these stem directly from their worldview. There's no escape: if you deny any kind of transcendent reality, art is degraded to the level of the cheesecake, (or one with a hammer and a sickle if you're a Marxist). Again, these are no straw men, because atheists can't argue for art being more than cheesecake without appealing to a higher reality than the material.

Thats silly. Its not a cheesecake.
Its the greatest dish by the greatest sheff. its a culinary work of art.

An user posted this dock in the last art thread:
vimeo.com/101804860

Obligatory.

> art being more than cheesecake
Are you somehow implying that culinary isn't an art by itself and it is somehow less then music? Why theistic people want to disregard results of human work to pretend that some fantasy world which they couldn't touch and reach is important one here instead? There is nothing bad for art to be on the level of cheesecake because last was also an object of art, expression of human taste, excellence and desires, thought and even effort. Why is it somehow acceptable to ignorant of all amount of complexity that we put into our food?

>having been a fedora myself for a certain time
you still are

This, fedora is not about being an atheist, it's about being obnoxious. You don't get "converted back", you stop being a retard.

Implying the greatest art is on the level of the sensory pleasure you get from eating a dessert is absolutely autismal

It's people with no inner depth trying to drag the rest of us down to an animalistic level of being, where everything is a glorified biological function

Literally bucket crabs wearing fedoras

Hello, burger here. They are fairly common and everyone went to high school with at least a couple of these guys. I still ocasionally see one reading manga at a bus stop sometimes.

>implying music is not about sensory pleasure.
???

You mean that music is not just sensory pleasure cause you decided it has something to do with a divine being..
Well, what of a religious sheff is inspired by his faith when he makes his dishes?

Sure, a ready dish is not as powerful because it is transitory while music cannot be truly consumed but in relative terms a culinary work of art can be just as amazing as a musical work of art.

If music is purely sensual pleasure then everyone would have the same reaction to the same songs, much like a dish tastes pretty much the same to everyone, give or take minor differences in physiology.

I'm sorry but there's no orgasm or culinary dish that can compare to what the best music can do to you. the former appeals to your body, the latter to your Self in its entirety

>Non-fiction, such as history books, are preferred over fiction
I disagree. Most fedoras have a huge inconsistency here where they consume mindless genre fiction.

The argument still applies, but not even cooking can reach the level of cooking without the transcendental.

A cheesecake is not merely a sensual experience for anyone who takes culinary art seriously.

That also throws out any comparison to 'the greatest' dish, because a good dish is simply one someone likes to eat.

All the voices in MY head agree though.

>believed art is a scam
>someone convinced me that only plebs think that
>decided to study art
>spent years studying it and learning about it
>all my free time went into it, literally thousands of hours and thousands of dollars
>eventually i realized that art is a scam

I've been accused of being a Fedora since the dumbass meme anti-argument was first invented some five or six years ago, and I've always cared for the arts, the humanities, etc, and the bridging between the two.

GTFO with that strawman

Besides, you're clearly talking about STEM majors, not fedoras... :^)

But engravings are a great form of art that the majority of people appreciate, they were not so easy to be made.

some of it is autism

a lot of it is just kids that were good at maths in school and thought maths was their thing and that meant that they had to hate the arts

there's also this idea out of romanticism and modernism that art is a thing made solely out of passion without reason, when in fact art is a very intellectual activity

Plato divides the soul into three parts: rational (λογιστιkόν), spirited (θυμοειδές), and appetitive (ἐπιθυμητιkόν).

Similarly, St. Paul has: spirit (pneuma), soul (psyche), and flesh (soma).

Now I think we can divide music into three categories according to which part of our soul or psychology it most appeals to :-

Appetitive / somatic - this music is mostly rhythm based, influencing the body; it is suited to dancing, marching, or just thrashing. The typical instrument is the drum. It is the least spiritual / most carnal. Example would be marching band music, hip hop with a heavy beat, heavier forms of rock music, etc. People that listen to music for bodily thrill/excitement prefer this kind of music.

Spirited / psychotic - this music is based mostly on harmony, and influences the emotions; it can be the most complex form of music because of the wide range of human emotions; its typical instruments are the piano, violin, guitar, which can express emotion. It lies in between carnal and spiritual music. Examples would be the more emotional/melodic pop and rock music, piano or guitar suites, most symphonies, etc. People that listen to music for "feels" like this kind of music.

Rational / pneumatic - this music is based mostly on melody; it is usually a lot simpler than the second because it appeals to the spiritual part of the soul, which is a lot less complex than the emotions; its typical instruments are the voice, the flute, the harp. Examples would be Gregorian chant, a lot of ancient mystic/spiritual chant in general, sacred polyphony, certain more "ambient" forms of pop/rock. People listen to this music for rest, contemplation, peace; it is often perceived as boring because it doesn't have bodily or emotional thrills.

More like how, not when.

How will they? Well, they need to make the wrong choice at an upcoming fork in the road. Automation will seize, over the next two centuries, 95-99% of all remaining jobs.

Even white collar jobs that traditionally require white collar intuition will be automated. Software is more and more capable of outdoing humans not just on a speed/accuracy front, but on an abstract, intuitive front as well. As we fill out photo captchas, we are training AI to recognize 3D physical entities in 2D formations of pixels. As we will out word captchas, we are digitizing books and archiving the human past.

ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_massive_scale_online_collaboration?language=en

Once this 95-99% automation happens, most of the human race will be unemployable, regardless of who their parents were, what kind of training they got, etc.

There will be some stalling of this process by giving people jobs that don't need to exist anymore as a purely symbolic gesture of good faith.

Then, there'll either be a luddite movement like never before... OR first world nations will all realize that unemployment no longer has to do with merit, and will allow the vast wealth created by automation to be redistributed to the common people so that they can stay economically mobile in a world where only the most innovative 1-5% people are even capable of getting a job.

If only one or a few nations do this, they'll suffer from immigration overload from the nations that don't, and collapse.

If no nations do this, governments will be rendered inefficient regulatory monsters, and Global Capitalists will sabotage remaining governments through lobbyism, taking over their functioning (as w/ USA right now).

We have two options, Cyber Socialism, or Coporate Feudalism. Global Capitalism will enable one or the other, out of pure necessity and the inevitability of the innovations it creates.

Mark my words. Save this post. Y'all can laugh when/if I'm wrong.

Great post. Could have provided examples.

I mean Jewtube examples.