The fall of the Ottoman Empire was a mistake
The fall of the Ottoman Empire was a mistake
Colton Phillips
Jaxon Rogers
Fake map, shit thread, kill yourself.
Adam Edwards
no the real mistake was not intervening in the greco turkish war
Cooper Collins
If they took Vienna, they would have a new logistical point.
It would be another Istanbul or Cairo for them to further expand into Europe.
Also the Battle of Lapanto made the Ottomans lose their best commanders.
Luke Edwards
The mistake was the Crimean War.
Logan Jenkins
The only mistake was that Croats and Serbs defended Europe from Ottoman conquest for so long, and meanwhile Euros were making deals with Turks against Balkan Christians.
Aaron Hill
You mean Croats defended so fucking long, one of the reasons Croatia looks like that. Serbs were occupied rather quickly... But I agree
Thomas Diaz
True, who wouldn't want to see the whole Europe becoming a shithole like the Balkans?
An oppressive tyranny destroying and murdering?
Greeks and Armenians still thank the joy of being conquered by Turks.
The only empire that in 500 years of existence literally brought nothing new to the civilisation aside murdering and performing genocides and all kind of barbarisms.
John Long
As a Croat, I can tell you Serbs did continue to fight in Vojna Krajina for quite a while after Serbia was taken by Turks.
Ironically enough, both Croats and Serbs were more fucked by back stabbing Euros than Turks.
Chase Bennett
user vlachs in vojna krajna are not Serbs at the time, they become Serbs in the end of 19th century, but yeah there was even Serbs and Germans in vojna krajna, employed by Hungary. Better mention Hungarians who actually fought Ottomans
Lucas Hill
True to that.
Although I must say that both Croats and Serbs would be better in the long run if they all became muslim.
Parker Ramirez
>the fall of the Ottoman Empire was a mistake
You mean the fall of a corrupt and tyrannical empire that caused a massive genocide was bad?
Liam Taylor
Name one empire that was not corrupt and genocidal?
Jaxson Baker
Well, that's one way of looking at things. I always thought that the fall of Constantinople was a worse event for Europe than both world wars
Easton Lee
Which one?
Kevin Bell
Well, I agree.
But let us remind ourselves who truly fucked up Constantinople long before Turks came.
Crusaders.
Owen Richardson
>meme events
Grayson Long
That was mostly just """Catholic""" France and protefags though.
Catholics and Orthodoxs wasn't much for making deals with them.
Henry Smith
French and British is not "just".
Sebastian Jackson
Yes, I agree. But everybody seems forgetting, that there is no notion of "nation" at the time.
Anthony Russell
Shame that Americas weren't discovered later, so that the reconquista continued on Ottomans
Adrian Rogers
> I always thought that the fall of Constantinople was a worse event for Europe than both world wars
Byzaboos actually believe this
Jason Turner
It gets BIGGER every map
James Gonzalez
I disagree with the post you quoted, but you have to admit that Europe and the Middle East would have been far more interesting places if the Ottoman Empire had never been. The only side-effect is that the ERE would have been more reluctant to share the profits from its trading routes than the Ottomans were and the 1207 plunder of Constantinople would have never occurred meaning that the Italian city-states would have been much poorer, whcih means the Renaissance may have never taken place or would have been delayed.
Jeremiah Morales
Swedish, British, several of the French, HRE wasn't genocidal, Dutch, basically all germanics were good boys up til WW1
Oliver Powell
The world would be much more europe dominated and everyone would be forced to be christian or sumtin.
If europeans found america so to say.
What would be intresting is what would happen if the ottomans sent alot of people to americas and colonized as much as the europeans did, in 1500-1600 the ottomans could buy all kinds of ship to sail to america.
Samuel Sanchez
I'm inclined to disagree old chap.
Doesn't mention the Irish Famine and a bunch of other ones.
>French
Couldn't find a conclusive list but just google "French Empire atrocities", there's ones in SE Asia, plenty in Algeria and many on their own soil too.
>Swedish
>HRE
Not reaaaaally Empires
Ryder Reed
It would be Europe dominated but not in the sense that we mean Europe today. A big part of the Middle East would probably be Christian and Europe's borders would extend deep into Turkey, but the wealth would be focused on Southern Europe rather than Northern Europe.
In terms of exploring the Americas, both their merchant and their military branches of the navy were almost exclusively manned by Greeks, Albanians and coastal Arabs, so the mixture of those cultures with American ones would have had incredibly interesting results. However, the Turkish admirals were famously terrible at battle so they would have probably found it quite hard to out-smart the Spaniards, Portuguese, Brits, French and Dutch who were all masters at sea-warfare.
Dominic Nguyen
No, it was a failure on the side of the Ottomans, who instead of trying to rally to appeal to their subjects to garner support, just killed them when they didn't put the state first.
The actual mistake was America letting Britain and France cut up the middle east. Those guys fuck up EVERYTHING.
Kayden Miller
The Ottoman Empire before the 1800s.
Oliver Johnson
No, it would have been equally interesting. The Ottomans created a doorway by removing the outdated Byzantines for ideas from the east to make it into the west, which the Byzantines limited as "heathen".
The Ottomans were part of the trigger for the European Enlightenment, that was basically stalled because of the Byzantines.
Wyatt Russell
>Europe's borders
wat
Which Europe's? The entire history of Europe would've been rewritten. European style Christianity would still lose out to Islam every step of the way as well. if it wasn't the Ottomans, some other Muslim Empire would've taken Anatolia. Probably the Mamluks, or the converted Mongolians.
James Hall
> The Ottomans created a doorway by removing the outdated Byzantines for ideas from the east to make it into the west, which the Byzantines limited as "heathen".
>The Ottomans were part of the trigger for the European Enlightenment, that was basically stalled because of the Byzantines.
This meme about has to die and is largely promoted in the West to make Islam seem less backwards than it is/was. Of course there were exceptions, but the main reason that Europe re-discovered the classical texts upon which the Renaissance was based was because the Byzantine scholars who had tirelessly reproduced them for centuries, fled to Europe with their collections following 1207 and 1453 with their manuscripts.