They're not berbers. They're not semetic, and god knows they're not black or white. Where the hell did they come from?
What the fuck even are these people?
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They were a mix of hunter-gathers coming in from Africas horn and early farmers coming in from the Fertile Cresent?
Not sure we will ever know, but who knows? There is a shit-ton of information that we cannot yet access or even imagine. Probably not so different from indigenous europeans or etruscans.
Haven't DNA already shown modern Egyptians are almost exactly the same as them?
They are cousins to Semites, so to speak.
Most likely, yes
>Probably not so different from indigenous europeans or etruscans.
What? ancient Egyptian was an Afro Asiatic language, Etruscan was not, plus they cluster genetically as quite different popoulations
So they're a mix of Proto-Euphrateans and Cushitic people?
I dunno, that's have I have heard it though. Don't know anything about the exact names of them actually. ((Pretty shitty at names overall))
Maybe it's wrong, but it seems to be logical that hunter gathers migrated northwards following the Nile, a second immigration wave coming when farmers in the Middle east got numerous enough to be able to immigrate there.
They are Afro-Americans dude.
I IS PEASANTZ
While we're on the subject, who were the Sea People? Greeks, Phoenicians, Hittites?
The Ancient Egyptians were terrified of them.
They come from the same people the Berbers and the Semites came from.
A more pressing question is who the fuck were the Indus River people.
aren't they descendants of the people of the aqualithic culture?
Probably Greeks, so it seems weird they wouldn't recognize Phoenicians, Greeks or Hittites, having all of them as neighbors.
Possibly the ancestors of the Adivasi.
No. The Egyptians defeated them. I think terrified is the wrong word. I'm sure they were worried, having received correspondence from surrounding states desperately requesting assistance, but the end of the Sea People was pretty much seen by the Egyptians.
So to the people of asia-minor, the siege of Troy was just another Sea People invasion?
combination of peoples, mostly Greeks and other Indo-Europeans. not Phoenicians - they're just Canaanites. Hittites were destroyed by the Sea Peoples.
Denyen = Danaans
Ekwesh = Achaeans
Lukka = Lycians (Anatolian people related to Hittites)
Peleset = Philistines (Greek-based, later adopted Semitic culture)
Shekelesh = Siculi (Sicilians)
Sherden = Sardinians (Nuragic Civilization)
Teresh = Tyrrhenians
Tjeker = Teucrians
Weshesh = unknown
The indus river people were dravidians
Adivasis are naked jungle people. I doubt their ancestors built the IVC...
Would make sense, given their civilization has left zero records we can interpret and evidently no later languages cropped up with any relation, so we can assume they went right back to the stone age.
There were different kinds of Greeks, man. There were the Ionians, and those directly associated with Ionians, and there were Pelasgians, and there was... something else in the northern Aegean (Tyrrhenians?), of which we see evidence from artifacts like the Lemnos Stele. Collectively we call them all Greeks. They all fought during the Greek dark age. It's how we get stories like of Troy v Sparta and the founding of Greek cities in the Italian Peninsula.
I'd think so, yeah.
>Greeks were the Bronze age Vikings
>The indus river people were dravidians
I don't think there's a consensus on this.
>Would make sense,
No it wouldn't.
>given their civilization has left zero records we can interpret
>and evidently no later languages cropped up with any relation,
We wouldn't know since we haven't translated their language. Modern Coptic and ancient egyptian are related yet nobody made the connection until the 19th century when Champollion decyphered the hieroglyphs.
>so we can assume they went right back to the stone age.
This doesn't happen.
They predate the sea peoples, so likely origin is from the fertile crescent or if you like /x/ then Atlantian descendants or maybe that was the Greeks. It could also be that they just originated there since that area is quite isolated and had been lush like that for thousands of years.
I think you're wrong because Ionians (Troy) were Greek, as a matter of fact, more closely related to Athenians than other "Greeks" from pre-santorini Crete or the northern Aegean.
ive never been quite clear on if the Trojan War occurred DURING the Bronze Age Collapse or if it preceded it. it would make more sense for the Trojan War to come first since afterwards the victorious Greeks and allies would go pillaging up and down the coast (hence why Odysseus' crew makes a trip to Egypt)
Happened with the precursor Greeks. They had written language, then they didn't.
Point is, it's pure speculation, but they're the only known local group that was extant at the time, or at least was extant earliest to that period of time.
>Point is, it's pure speculation,
It has way more evidence behind it than "lol they just went back to being hunter gatherers in the jungle".
Then what happened to the Mayans?!
So who do you believe founded the IVC? Aryans? Semites? Fucking Finns?
i thought Troy was Luwian?
It was just as the Bronze age collapse and the Greek dark age started.
Do you suffer from brain damage? Read two posts up.
I said the IVC was (most probably) founded by dravidians.
I'm not knowledgeable about the Mayans so I can't say.
No, Luwian speakers were east, inland, as Hittites. Troy wasn't that at all.
Don't bring up my industrial threshing accident, asshole. Also, several Adivasi tribes speak Dravidian languages.
>Also, several Adivasi tribes speak Dravidian languages.
Yes, because they got conquered 4 millenia ago.
Dravidians are basically neolithic farmers who migrated from the middle east eastwards (as the founding stock of european peoples migrated westward through anatolia to colonize Europe) and created two civilizations along river basins : Elam and the IVC. Then the IVC collapsed god know why (probably climate change) and the dravidians moved southwards and colonized the rest of the indian subcontinent.
sucks to know that elamite women were ugly
The obvious answer is that by the time 3000bc came along, they "came from" exactly where they were, a mix of people along a crossroads, as Canaanites or Anatolians, or India, etc.
You're wrong actually, the only troyzn document found was a Luwan hieroglyph
The Tyrrenians are Etruscan and came from Italy, the lemnian documenta are an unicum and written hundreds of years after the first etruscan documents found in Italy, so it's reasonable to assume that they were left there by Etruscans Who set up a harbour there, rather than Etruscans originating from there
False, luwian speakera were present in Western Anatolia too along with Mycenean colonists
berbers and semites came from different orgins, berbers would be related to Ancient Egyptians and cushtics
They're Afro-Asiatics. Related to Semites and Berbers.
>Sherden = Sardinians (Nuragic Civilization)
NOW I understand!
They are essentially berbers, they're the people who spread out across all of North Africa, part of the Afro-Asiatic group.
Probably just lighter skinned people from Africa
Mostly aboriginal inhabitants of North Africa. Like white Berbers.
Why is he so perfect brehs? N-no homo
Mishriqs and Maghrebs.
Where can i find more info on the sea people's and the bronze age collapse
Get in here lads
Same guy from
Who are these Luwians? I only know about the Lukkans, which I later learned were the Lycians. And what about these "Arzawa" I saw in this game? They occupy Troy, Sardes and Karabel in the game and according to a Hittite inscription they live around the area which is known as Troas in the Iliad. Were they the Homeric trojans or are they just a different anatolian people?
They were the Homeric trojans, also Sardes was known as Hydes in the Odyssey and the Hittities never mention it or the Lydians, but they mention the city of Troy as Wilusa (probably related to Ilion aka Troy) and they mention the Ahywans probably the Acheans of the Odyssey.
"In the 1920s, the Swiss scholar Emil Forrer claimed that the placenames Wilusa and Taruisa found in Hittite texts should be identified with Ilion and Troia, respectively. He further noted that the name of Alaksandu, a king of Wilusa mentioned in a Hittite treaty, is quite similar to Homer's Paris, whose birthname was Alexandros. Subsequent to this, the Tawagalawa letter (CTH 181) was found to document an unnamed Hittite king's correspondence to the king of the Ahhiyawa, referring to an earlier "Wilusa episode" involving hostility on the part of the Ahhiyawa. The Hittite king was long held to be Mursili II (c. 1321—1296), but, since the 1980s, his son Hattusili III (1265—1240) is commonly preferred, although his other son Muwatalli (c. 1296—1272) remains a possibility."
Saw that, told him to look at a map of the shallow and deep waters of the mediterraneans earlier and replied to his other post by shitting on his ignorance of the medieval age. Obvious troll tho, but lot's of effort in his autism.
>Tawagalawa letter (CTH 181) was found to document an unnamed Hittite king's correspondence to the king of the Ahhiyawa, referring to an earlier "Wilusa episode" involving hostility on the part of the Ahhiyawa.
So Ahywans and Ahhiyawa are the Achaeans? And the documentation certifies that there had been an exchange of correspondence between the Hittite and Achaean kings after the "Wilusa episode" aka the siege of Ilion/Troy?
Fuck, now I wish I could know what those letters said. I can't believe we're actually delving into bronze-age politics. I didn't even believe it would be possible to bring back bronze age diplomatic relations and politics with what little we have in terms of documentation.
Thank you for the clarification guys, feels so great.
>tfw people like this exist
The Amarna letters also give you a good insight in late Bronze age politics, I had found a great site with a lot of the letters, those are letters between the Egyptian Pharaoh and the kings of the Levant and Babylone
Atlanteans after it sank into the sea.
Well afaik Egypt isn't monoethnic today, with skin colors ranging from blacker than soot from their head to their foot to fairly light skinned, so idk senpai.
>Exchanges of gifts between rulers (e.g., fancy furniture, gold, linen, etc.)
>Diplomatic marriages (one letter from a Babylonian king asked for proof that his sister, one of Pharaoh’s earlier wives, is still alive before sending the Pharaoh his daughter as a new wife!)
>News about events in distant cities: Byblos, Tyre, etc.
>Requests for grain and other foodstuffs, lumber, ships, military aid, etc.
>Vassals’ concerns about the rising military threat of the Hittites on the northern borders of Egyptian influence and concern from Jerusalem and Gezer, too, about the military threat from the ‘Apiru.
>A few contain myths and legends.
This is amazing.
And who are the 'Apiru? Bringing back that game from my screenshots I only know they were good skirmishers/archers but didn't know they were an actual people.
ive never really seen a good looking dravidian woman. same with australian aborigines. the only two ethnic groups ive found with that problem.
honestly just start with wikipedia
The Bronze Age Collapse didn't happen in a day. It comprised a lot of events.
I don't think there's consensus on Elam being dravidian or related to the Indus Valley civilization at all. For now it should be considered isolate like sumerian (or basque to give a modern example).
feel so bad for Rib-Hadda
What game is this?
some people speculate that they are related to the Hebrews but it's more likely it's a term for confederations of bandits/mercenaries
Different user, I have to agree on this one. But what are the indian actresses in those Bollywoodian movies though? Are they Aryans/Indo-Aryans? They definitely don't look like dravidians.
>What the fuck even are these people?
Indigenous North African / Mediterranean people of the Nile River region.
I don’t know why everybody is insisting they’re immigrants from somewhere else?
north indians, yes
So Lukkans? Thanks.
Chariots of War, a turn-based strategy by Slitherine. Have you ever played Gates Of Troy? It's basically an older version of it and set in the bronze age. Citybuilding is more related to resource production, unit training and population happiness and you conquer single cities, not provinces, so there's one similarity and one difference with Rome 2 Total War for example. Also the battles are simplified, in that you don't take control of your units but rather give them orders and let the officers deal with the rest. You might like it.
Right, so the 'Apiru threat was just raids then.
No, the Lukkans were only one of them and the were known as Lukka by the Hittities too.
Luwian is their language and it was Indo European
'Apiru and similar terms are nomadic/semi-nomadic raiders. You will see in some places that Apiru=Hebrews (it was popular on this board last time I checked) and, while it's not farfetched that the ancestors of the hebrews could be considered apiru, I don't think it's possible that everyone who has been considered an apiru in the sources was an hebrew. It probably wasn't an ethnic term and, if it was, it as an unreliable one like "indians" in the Americas.
Sounds like a cool game, I might check it although nope I haven't played Gates of Troy (but I have tried total wars).
[nospoilerson/his/]Is it hard? I can enjoy some of those complex ones but I don't play a lot of videogames and I'm not very good at them.[/nospoilerson/his/]
the Bronze Age is such a colorful time in history, especially the Late Bronze Age. i had never really known anything about it except what most would casually know (Ancient Egypt existed, Greek legends took place then, Hammurabi wrote his code, etc.) so i spent the first couple months of this year reading all about it and i'm glad i did.
Middle Bronze Age is kind of boring in comparison to the Early and Late Bronze Ages though. least interesting kingdom of Egypt, Babylonia rising and then just kind of putzing around, Assyria not yet at full ascendancy, lots of interchangeable Semitic city-states fighting over stuff, etc.
Ayy praise Kek
an ancient people. pictographic language. incredible megalithic structures. advanced understanding of mathematics, astronomy, agriculture, even chemistry.
the ancient egyptians were quite evolved. their mysticism is the basis for many western schools of magic. IIRC, some occultists speculate that the workings of the kabbalah have their origins in egyptian magic, learned by the hebrews during their time in captivity.
strange stories surround the ruins even now. lights and orbs floating around. take from that what you will.
[On Veeky Forums no one can read your spoilers]The difficulty is pretty relative. You can set it to different levels, yeah, but it all falls to the faction you choose. Location (aka which other factions share a frontier with you), resources produced by your cities and amount of cities determine your starting difficulty.
For example, in Gates Of Troy I started as the "Greeks of Illyria" (supposedly a greek colony of two cities in coastal modern-days Albania) and the real difficulty was that north of you there's the roman-controlled city of Scodra, which spawn with an army of some basic lowtier spearmen and a unit of triarii and one of hastatii (plus receive small reinforcements every 12 turns I think, which is a year in the game).
Chariots of War is pretty much the same and you have to rely on different aspects to survive, like trade. In both games, trade is an important tool when you lack certain resources and if your cities produce few food then a drought or a ruined-by-rains harvest will have you lose most of your stock throughout that year.
There's also diplomacy, but in Chariots Of War it's mostly about learning which factions like or hate you and which factions do they like and also to remove the fog of war from their territories. In Gates Of Troy instead you have no fog of war but diplomacy plays an active role in your survival. It serves as a way to befriend nations, to develop trade and (if your diplomat is experienced enough) to buy from/sell to that faction some quick resources, but also for espionage reasons to sabotage another faction: in easier difficulties, if your diplomat has a high enough rank you can tell him to spread lies like threats of tiranny or accusations of piracy and some other stuff to drop that faction's global happiness a lot and in few turns many of their cities will defect and revolt, tearing apart a nation of like 12 cities from civil war and having them lose half of those cities to peasant revolts.
WE WUZ AYYS N LMAOS
So long story short, it can be a hard games at times but not frustratingly hard.
Oh and you can expel foreign diplomats in several ways, most of which include beheading, dipping alive in boiling oil, cutting their hands, whipping and one or two more I don't remember. The other three are: ask gently to leave, escort him to the border, make him disappear.
>the ancient egyptians were quite evolved. their mysticism is the basis for many western schools of magic.
And lets not forget that Judaism (and thus Christianity and Islam) evolved from the quasi-monotheism of Akhenaten.
I won't forget this is your opinion, whoever the fuck you are.
Gonna have to agree with this guy. Especially as the Egypt slave thing is pretty much been debunked
Don't they all come from the same Proto-Afro-Asiatic tribe?