Name better empires than Greece and Rome

tell that to the Athenians

>greekroach claiming the glory of alexander yet again

britain

And turks were romans n sheit

>Macedonians
>White

>alexander
>greek

So you're saying black people invented white culture !

No, Europeans invented their own culture. As I said there are strong differences between Greek and Egyptian and Fertile Crescent ideas. But the three traded together, art, goods, ideas, stories, there was cross contamination of ideology between the three, gradually changing hat each initially believed. Especially about art. Each had their own orientalizing.

But at the time Greece was within its orientalizing period, Egypt was simply the most powerful force on the map, so of course it had influence. And it laid the back bone

So yes, civilizations that influence us for the past three thousand years, aren't without their own previous thousand year influence. You've got to remember, much of these cultures have lasted longer than AD has existed.

Especially given how loosely everyone understood the world, faith, art, tradition, all of it was thrown into then mix together, and without it, it isn't likely Greece would have become so culturally significant to how we see the world today.

For example, during Greece's orientalizing period, take Mantiklos' Apollo. We don't know much about it, other than it might have been an offering to an early type of the God Apollo, from Mantiklos. Whether this Mantiklos made it himself, or if it was another artist entirely made somewhere else. But what we do know, is the type of hair and the type of detail seen on it, is almost uniquely from older Fertile Crescent styles of sculpting and carving, and that style of hair. It just isn't wholly "Greek", it's a hybrid between early Greek art style and Fertile Crescent, implying a trend that existed.

There's more examples, but Greece became the foundation of society, and Greece was influenced heavily elsewhere by stronger cultures early on, yes.

Worse than Dorian Pigs

youre dumb as shit senpai

>Greece
>Empire

they weren't even united
the Greeks considered themselves "hellenic nations", and the political organisation back then was centered around the city-state (if we 're talking about the Classical Age). They weren't an empire and they certainly didn't consider themselves as an entity to be ruled by a singular political structure

I know that greeks were influenced by the Phoenicians (ancient jews and lebanese), both in population/race and art, and the Egyptians in population/race

youtube.com/watch?v=bZXcVVbO0RE

:^)

While Classical Greece is something different from the Near East cultures, Bronze age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures were heavily influenced by the East. Europeans were just late for the state game. Even the Iron age culture spread from East to West and we can trace this by analyzing the burial rites in the second half of the XI century, the iron metallurgy and the birth of Proto-Geometric pottery. The influence in art is more than apparent until the Greco-Persian war (see the kouroi I posted, familiar?). The tools they use, the measurements they adopted were taken from the Egyptians. It was in the V century that -competition- made Greece unique, for there was no canon to stop the progress in art.

OP is correct. No greater glory than Rome.

no they fucking were not. They spoke GREEK. To the Greeks, if you spoke Greek, you were Greek. If you spoke something else you were barbarian.

By Greek Empire, did you mean the Byzantine Empire?

Which is why Alexander I had to prove his descent from Heracles in order to enter the Olympics, right? And Athens did not approve it because they needed an ally against the Persians, I assure you.

>pic related

We don't need xenophobic Britons to rule the world. They were holding us back. You racist Americans will vote Trump and collapse. the EU will be remembered in history as a second Rome. I'm half Nigerian and half French living in Belgium. I AM EUROPEAN.

Can anyone recommend me some online books on minoans and mycenean greece.

They were ethnic greeks though.
Also werent spartans/dorians related to macedonians and originated from macedonia

Ancient Macedonian was a dialect of Doric Greek.

The Greeks considered Macedon and Epirus to both be Ethnoses, as opposed to Polises.

So Athenians were Athenians, because they were part of the Polis.
People from Megara were not Athenian, why were people from Megara.

But everybody in Macedon was Macedonian. They didn't have Polis identity politics or political divisions.

That was the #1 distinction in the eyes of the Athenians and others that made Macedonians barbarians, that they didn't use the civilized Greek Polis model.

From cultural perspective Macedon, Epirus, even Thessaly were inbetween Greeks and Thracians. Less civil than the former, more civil than the later.

But they spoke Greek, and during the Peloponnesian War Athens did consider them Greek because they were Athenian allies (they played both sides though). The majority of 'Macedonians are barbarians, not Greeks' was propaganda against Philip II that originated in Athens, and partially a result of Macedonia playing both sides in the war.

Rodney Castleden's "Minoans life in Bronze Age Crete" and "The Mycenaeans". They are both on gen dot lib dot rus dot ec.

Have you studied their material culture from the archaeological remains to claim such a thing and to be so sure of it? I hope you do not base your opinion solely on literary sources.

Greek art was thoroughly un-orientalized before the first Persian War.

The Early Classical or Severe style.

He had to do that because to compete in the Olympics your city had to be mentioned in the Iliad or visited by Herakles.

There were many Greek cities especially on the islands that weren't mentioned and always struggled with that fact.

Even Athens was not in the Iliad, Pesistritous had them added when he canonized it.

Thanks mate for the book
Ofcourse their material culture was different than that of southern greece because of isolation, but still they followed same gods, spoke language that is not certain was it closely related or just dialect etc.
Same shit with epirotes who were considered barbarians while macedonians were "civilized" greeks even tough they were greeks just more "primiivie"

There was period of orientalization beginning with archaic age 8th. century.
By the time of Persian wars there was great flow of culture between them

I am curious about their language being a dialect of Doric Greek. Can you tell me more or give me a source?

I just want to add that in V-III centuries, the urbanization that took place in Macedonia in sites such as Aigai and Pella, the cities have the orthogonal plan, an agora, a palace with one or more peristylia, piping AND theatres. Their tombs also had a doric order facade. We can't be sure what the Macedonians were in the Early Iron Age, but in the LIA they had adopted Greek culture for sure.

>Ofcourse their material culture was different than that of southern greece because of isolation

See what I posted above.

He was also the first proxenos.

>so many greeks in Veeky Forums right now

feels comfy

I am the great warrior Satzikai
fear my spicy taste and addictive freshness

underrated post.

The kouroi that I posted earlier are dated first quarter of VI century. Such sculptures were made until the beginning of the V century. Progress is evident, though. The later ones were a lot more detailed. Compare pic related to the earlier ones.

when was greece an empire

>Name better empires than Greece and Rome.

British. American.

Specially the American Empire.

MIND = BLOWN

Umayyad Caliphate

I know about the Kouroi. And I would be the first to point out the overwhelming Egyptian influence.

But by the 2nd half of the 5th century BC, Greek sculpture had definitely taken on a form that was distinctly Greek. Even that Kouroi shares comparatively little with Egyptian statues.

For pottery, black figure begins the trend towards distinct Greek art and red figure cements it.

The Greeks borrowed -very- heavily from the Assyrians and Egyptians, but they created styles that were incredibly innovative and unique as a result. No other culture in antiquity could boast of artistic achievements on par with the Greeks. The Classical Era should go down in history as the single most important phase of Western Art.

CYRUS KING OF KINGS

Well done Cyrus well done Cyrus

HOWEVER

I agree with what you say, but I don't think their sculpture was so different from the Eastern one prior to first quarter of V century. But yeah, the Classical is Europe.

NOW THERE AIN'T BUT THREE MILLION BABYLONIANS, CAN YOU DIG IT?

>he takes Greek ancient shitposting for granted
Fun fact: Spartans used to call Athenians barbarians during the Pelloponisian war

Praise Ahura Mazda

I am at a point where I want to believe this is a shitpost but am doubtful, this is how low European society has sunken for me

Great, another Raghead swearing he's not Arab.

Go blow up something.

Persians aren't arab

>whites think they're Egyptian
>Greeks think they're Macedonian
Is anyone on this planet not retarded?

Do we have any record of what language the Macedonians spoke?

the name Alexandros and Philippos are greek words.

You sure?
There weren't any Greeks with these names before them?

there might have, what does that have to do with it?

If they were the first ones with those names then that might mean that those names derive from a language differing from ancient Greek.

Ergo the Macedonians weren't Greek at all.

...it would also imply that the language known as greek derived from the same language.

Alex (keep away) andros (man)= keep away the man/untouchable, unbeatable in battle

Philippos=horselover

They were FYROMians (Future Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia)

hmm, really makes you think

Macedonians were Slavs you dumbass

The name Alexander is Greek, and is attested in the 14th century BC as the ruler of Wilusa (Troy).

This confuses scholars to no end because Troy fought the Greeks and the Luwians and no written evidence has been found to prove what the internal alignment of the city was.

So you have an Anatolian city, heralded as Greece's greatest foe in mythology, the object of at least 2 historical wars between Luwians and Greeks, and ruled for at least a short time by a man with a Greek name.

Also, Paris' name is also given as Alexander.

How do people not know this?

WE

WUZ

KANGZ N SHIET

Achaemenid Persia
Assyria
Tang Dynasty
Song Dynasty

but thats wrong

...

Herodotus considered them greeks one hundred years before the birth of Alexander. fuck off faggot.

>Empires

...

this was way waay after alexander faggot

>Greek
>Empire
What did he mean by this? Surely he wasn't referring to Alexander?

>Greece
In its glory days classical Greece was a hodgepodge of bickering city states with no centralized authority.

The empire established by Alexander crumbled almost the moment he died at the ripe old age of 23.

The empire established by Constantine was based and lasted over 1,000 years

>Rome
The "high" Roman period experienced crippling deflation almost as soon as Augustus stopped pumping his own money into infrastructure projects and after Marcus Aurelius conquered the last culture in Europe worth conquering (the Dacians), they ran out of other people's money and turned on each other like a pack of mad dogs, squandering the remainder of their wealth fighting succession wars until all of the mercenaries who had grown fat and wealthy on Roman contracts decided that they should be the ones calling the shots.

Its successor the Roman Catholic Church was based, preserved writing and knowledge through some of Europe's darkest days and founding the world's first universities. Its decentralized nature kept it untethered from the fortunes and misfortunes of a single ruling cliche and as an institution it has survived over 1,700 years to the present day.

>Better
the Han, T'ang, Song, and Ming dynasties of China were prosperous in ways that the west could not possibly have imagined..

British

WE WUZ ALEXANDER N SHIIEEEET