How do you fix a post factual democracy?

How do you fix a post factual democracy?

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I'll tell you tomorrow

Thanks friend, look forward to it.

Not believing in Reddit level scientism /= post factual

Brexit was dominated by narratives from the start. Very little in the way of facts 90% of the time from either side.

I've not been this gutted in a long, long time.

I almost feel ashamed to be British. I honestly thought we were better than this. Fucking hell I was hopelessly wrong.

lol

>I'm a pretentious bourgeois who thinks working class people are stupid to love their national identity and despise the immigrants that rape their daughters

get over it m8

I'd feel a lot better about it if we had an industry to sustain ourselves but we have nothing.

10 years of poverty for >muh heritage

You wouldn't prefer a poor, Christian England that lasts for another thousand years than a rich capitalist cosmopolitan dystopia that has no culture?

>doesn't care about his heritage, his ancestors, his homeland
>typical bourgeois scum cares only about his bank and his holidays abroad

The fire rises brother.

Here's a video just: for you -

youtube.com/watch?v=rY7stDTWjRI

>despise the immigrants that rape their daughters
Dumbass

Even if you do buy the narrative that immigrants are evil sexual deviants who will rape every white woman in sight you're still screwed. Amy meaningful trade agreement the UK can get other countries to agree to will allow large freedom of movement. If you really want to shut your borders the UK will wither away being cut off from the world economy.

You just bought 10 years of suck for absolutely nothing and UKIP voters are still in denial about it

>Uneducated peasants who voted/supported 'OUT' detected.

>Democracy is great until I don't like the outcome
>Why do old people get to vote? It's not their future to choose

>post factual
Oh fuck off, Democracy has never been about the facts.

Fucking Blairite scum whinging about "post-factual" politics when what they really mean is "waah, nobody listens to my spin anymore. they've all been brainwashed by the SNP and UKIP! :("

Note that I didn't even vote leave.

>Amy meaningful trade agreement

LMAO, he talks about trade again.

Mate, I don't give a SHIT about trade. Don't you understand? There's more to life than iphones and starbucks coffee. Do you get that? This isn't about trade, it isn't even about immigration, really. It's about sending a message: the people of Britain, and soon, the people of Europe, will not sit by and watch the globalists breed out our people and stamp out our culture and erase the memory of our heritage, just so they can set up their big markets and turn us into another USA.

Your time is over. You are the generation of faggots, of abortion, of transexual abomination, of consumerism. You are a cancer upon the earth. You have nothing to live for, and you are dead.

pic related: the future of Europe.
When you see us walking through the streets sneering at us and calling us fascists, we will pick you up and throw you to the Muslims you love so much, and let them have their way with you.

and then your theory falls apart as china, a closed nation and one of the biggest trading blocs slams its dingus on your face, same with japan, and every other nation on this planet which has strict immigration

set an age limit at where the old people haven't fallen to dementia yet have the knowledge and experience to think independently, don't let young people vote.

I almost wish you were right.

Consumerism is far more powerful. When you start taking the iPhones away, people soon become upset and sign away their country again.

The kneejerk reaction to this has been hilarious. Have people really been conditioned to believe that countries can't survive with massive free trade agreements? You faggots will be fine. Also not Veeky Forums material. Take it to /pol/

>can't survive
nobody says this.

the fact the pound decided to plunge does say, however, that countries won't be as well off as they would have been.

[not that this is a good thing: FUCK free movement of currency.]

t. Never had sex or left the basement autist

Have fun living in your little poverty stricken fantasy world

see

Markets can make stupid kneejerk decisions too. It doesn't mean anything. Every time a major shift like this occurs anywhere markets react badly and people who opposed the change decry it in apocalyptic terms. You have to give it a little more than a day or two if you want to accurately predict long term changes.

What does the UK have worth trading?
and who determines the cut off age?

China has an industry and huge resources, Britain has nothing

Ah yes, the 5th (6th now, but it'll be back by the end of the week) is going to go poor now for some reason

Is there anything more glorious than the tears of multinational corporations and the tears of SJWs at the same time? Everyone awful in the world is now spitting so much bile at the British people, I fucking love it.

youtube.com/watch?v=yHNfvJc99YY

The life experience of the elderly is of severely limited value to actual politics.

People who retired at a time when full employment was a universally accepted policy goal [or had just recently been dropped] have no valuable experience to apply to welfare policy in a country focused on labour market flexibility. They retain their expectation one can easily find a job and thus only needs welfare if they are lazy.

Combine this with a huge focus on their own pension payments to the detriment of other policy goals, and disproportionate voter turnout in their age-groups and you have a very bizarre but real political system.

The market can stay irrational longer that you can stay solvent

>Mate, I don't give a SHIT about trade. Don't you understand?
I was replying to the content of the post and not reality

>Markets can make stupid kneejerk decisions too
>market can stay irrational
b-but muh free market, muh rational choice mufugga, privatise dat sheeeeeeeeit.

so what does britbongistan have worth trading?

>The world 5th largest economy has nothing. to offer.

Read what you post next time.

Ah, OK then, carry on

>supports the welfare state and the dissolution of national borders at the same time
I wonder how SJWs reconcile being such neoliberal cocksuckers while bleating so incessantly about the poor 24/7?

I don't know, but you don't get to be the world's 5th largest economy without doing something

britain was a financial center because of it's ease of access to the EU

London has been an enormous financial center way before the UK joined the EU

but britain pretty much sat on it's ass and was carried by londonabad being the financial center of the EU.

Britain was a financial center before the EU was even a thing, try again.

and britain had an empire to take resources from then. It doesn't have it anymore. Its biggest exports were to the EU

It's a wonderful strawman, I'll give you that.

Except I never stated support for open borders and I posted in protest of neoliberal consumerism.

I have a disproportionate care for the poor within my own national borders.

...

See London has been a financial center of the world long before the EU even existed, let alone they joined

A nation with no national resources formed one of the biggest empires? Impressive, there goes the enviromental factor in terms of success then. It's also impressive that the germany managed to keep the entirety of the uk population as welfare combined with the millions of living bombs inside their borders

>Its biggest exports were to the EU

And there's no reason this has to change. Or will change.

That's not protest, it's resignation.

The UK joined the EU in '73, and they lost their empire back in the late 40's.

So for 30 years London was a financial center of the world without relying on its empire

The UK is mostly importing and not exporting products, you can't equate China and England based on trade

Do you have any statistics of what was taken and how much? If you can't provide that then that's not an argument : - )

and what was their share in the global economy?
it will once once it won't have the sops to deal with other producers in eu

But you wrote they have no natural resources, how are they supposed to import if they can't produce to gain money, do they trade with air?

Why are self-confessed Marxists and Socialists so worried about the opinion of the stock market and our IMF credit rating all of a sudden?

Second in the western world I believe

Utterly pathetic.. It's Britons like YOU that me shake my head in disgust.

Whys can the sops be recreated with the new situation in mind? You do realize you don't need to be in the EU to trade with EU members right?

>UK
>no industry

You serious bruv?

Because they're all Guardian reading champagne socialists who think the working class are vile racists that simply can't be trusted with democracy.

Like most modern nations Britain makes it money from services however that's in danger right now because it's likely that the financial centre of the EU will leave London and move to Paris or Frankfurt

UK and Norway share the same sea. Norway is rich as fuck and unimpeded by EU trade regulations. The UK can join the global oil market easy, there's enough off Scotland for it.

To be honest, you would have been mocked regardless of the outcome.

"I believed everything my Monnet Professor told me! Just because they are paid by the EU to promote the EU doesn't mean they're biased. I make my decisions on facts that agree with my worldview and that demonstrates my supeweeor intellect. The experts are always right even though they have been wrong about almost every major European economic and political project in the past 40 years. They're right this time, guys, trust me. Why? because I simply have a supeweeor intellectual intelligence, demonstrated by my Reddit upvotes."

About Scotland...

>it's likely that the financial centre of the EU will leave London and move to Paris or Frankfurt
>it's likely
>move to Paris
>likely

...And france or Germany has had terrible economies then, as they didn't have that center of trade?

your arguments are terrible, down into the rabbit hole it goes and goes, becoming shittier by each post

Go to bed Salmond. You're not getting another fucking referendum.

>I don't give a shit about the thing that keeps civilizations healthy and prosperous

>implying they'll leave
>implying that even if they do, Spain will let them enter the EU

don't forget, you're here forever

They aren't actually socialists. They're like Blair, they believe in "Social-ism" but not socialism.

>post factual
translation: I lost and I'm butthurt

It's the culture, myth, and soul of a society that keeps it healthy -- not material wealth.

>he doesn't care about the Gini coefficient

>implying Spain won't
Spain isn't leaving Europe. Scotland and Catalonia are not analogues anymore.
[At least, that's the cop-out Spain can use.]

The working class?

Don't listen to him, the UK left BECAUSE of trade, not in spite of it. Trading outside of the EU through the EU is extremely difficult, especially for a country that did not join the Eurozone. The EU itself is a dying market with minimal economic growth, and the Leave campaign had their sights on larger targets in the world.

Plastic miniatures, banter and Doctor Who?

M8 if Scotland successfully gets a referendum and leaves, then joins the EU you better bet your ass the Basques and the Catalonians will start mailing bombs

Post Imperial Britain was a shithole though.

It was pretty shit but London was still the second largest financial capital in the world

???

I'm pretty satisfied with the outcome since it perfectly shows one fundamental issue that has been plaguing Europe recently (especially due to the refugee crisis), and that is the massive alienation among different social classes as well as between the people and the ruling class/media. In my country's media, Brexit supporters are virtually unanimously presented as uneducated losers that failed to understand the arguments of the correct (i.e. pro-EU) side. And it's the same with most other recent issues - there are no more competing factions that each hold legitimate opinions, but only those that vote the right thing and those that were too dumb to vote the right thing.
The referendum in Britain as well as the presidental election in Austria have done their part to put this black-and-white/us vs. them worldview into a dilemma - either the mainstream has to accept that that the opposing view is legitimate or they have to treat half of Europe's population as dangerous retards that would be better off being excluded from the democracy.

People can adopt new national identities. If the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish could consider themselves British, then the British could consider themselves European.

In the end, what makes the right decision falls to the fundamental personal values of a given individual considering the issue.

Better in many ways than what we have now.

There was a society, not just various groups of self-interested people vying for themselves and their families, but a society.

>For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago.

Ahem

Brexit had the support of substantial portions of the British press and a reasonable section of the ruling party.

If you want an explicit "Right verus Wrong" spin on things you need to look to Scotland where the press and establishment where even more laughably lopsided. [To the extent that no daily Scottish paper backed independence when it turned out 45% of the population did. While there is now an explicitly pro-independence daily (created just to cash in on the market), it's still something like 95/5 representing 55/45.]

Meh, the EU will value Scotland's membership more than Catalonia/Basque, just to teach the UK a lesson.

Hell, Catalonia/Basque might even be let in if they vote to leave.

Yeah but to get in all of the member states have to agree for you to get in, and Spain will never vote yes

>Reddit level
Fuck off you mong.

The EU will, but Spain sure as hell won't.

Okay, so you're a retard. You could have just let us know sooner instead on drawing on the debate this long.

Spain has plenty excuse to portray Scotland as an island unto itself, completely different to the Catalan and Basque situations.

During the former referendum I believe it was also stated they would accept the result if London did. This allows the inverse to be applied [Nobody accepts Catalan independence if Madrid doesn't.]

There is no need. in America one can be both a Texan and an American. Or both a Christian and American. or a Muslim and American or White/Black/Asian and American. It is entirely possible to hold multiple identities at the same time. There was nothing preventing the coexistence of both an English and European identity.

not an argument

This. The fact that British could be cut off from not only it's biggest consumer market but it's biggest source of industrial materials could be disastrous.

If they accept Scotland, no matter what excuse they come up with will satisfy the catalans and basque.

You're going to see the troubles levels of violence

No excuse they make right now satisfies them.

Yugoslavia broke up and some of her ex-states are in the EU.

>Yugoslavia broke up and some of her ex-states are in the EU.


Why the fuck are you comparing apples and oranges man?

The West fully supported the rest of the ex-yu states leaving, not to mention that Serbia was pretty weak.

Who the fuck do you think will support the catalans and the basques?

Because they're facing up to the reality of the situation.

Yugoslavia wasn't in the EU, and it also no longer exists.