Hi Guys, the purpose of this thread is to discuss all things Iranic. There's far too much information to try and discuss in one thread so I'll lay some groundwork first.
Please feel free to ask any questions about anything relevant and I'll try my best to answer it.
I'll add as much as possible so long as this thread is kicking around.
I'll start with ancient history and eventually work my way to modern day (focusing on different tribes, religions, and socio-political issues - mainly attributable to the Islamic Republic)
Scythia was not a homogenously Iranic. It was - most recently - composed of Iranics, Slavics, Turkics, and North Indian peoples who all shared a similar Iranic identify (language, culture, religion). When the Achaemenid empire arose and dominated the world, Scythians became dispersed. Most fleed Persian attacks that were bottle-necked through the Caucasus further into the Steppe (East). Others travelled deeper into Iran for trade and prosperity, and some travelled to their western neighbours (Greeks) and even more North-West into modern day Eastern Europe. Genetic studies show that they belonged to three main haplogroups (R1a, G2a, and J2a). The presence of these haplogroups confirms my above point that they were of a mix of genetically (slightly) differentiated peoples. All however, share the indo-european marker (xxA). R1a's is currently strongest in Eastern Europe followed by Iran, G2a is strongest in the Caucasus, and J2a is strongest in Iran, Anatolia (Hitties), and Caucasus. Scythians were the first people to master mounted warfare. When they dispersed East, they most likely introduced this type of fighting to Mongolians and other Eastern peoples.
John Campbell
Indo-European Branch 2 (Ancient, dispersed from Pontic-Caspian Steppe to Caucasus & Iran)
The Medes were the first Iranic tribe to organize and combine the other related tribes into an empire. Modern day Kurds and Azeri's have both claimed Median ancestry and it is very probably that this is in fact true. Kurds and Azeri's are both Iranic peoples (genetically) and have traditionally populated Northwestern Iran. The Medes were soon conquered by the Persians who changed the face of Asia as it was known. Building on the systems of the Babyloans (who have improved on the work of the ancestors, the Sumerians, Akkadians, etc...) they built the largest empire the world has ever seen (based on world population). After their temporary fall, marked by Alexander the Great's admirable conquering, the next Iranic tribe that came to power were the Parthians. Iranian history continued after the Parthians by the entrance of new Persian and Persianate (Most notably Seljuq, Timurid, Ilkhanate, Ottoman, and Mughal) Empires.
Gabriel Peterson
Cyrus the Great was the greatest King to have ever lived.
Zachary Parker
Rise of Islam
While the Persians continued to battle the Byzantines, a new power was emerging, praying on the weakness of both empires. After invading Mesopitamia, the Arabs eventually subdued the weakened Sassanid Empire. Despite the burning of Zoroastrian scripts and temples and mass slaughter of thousands of Iranians, conversion to Islam was very much gradual because of Iranian resistance (execution of Arab governors, etc...). Iranians were the only victims of Islam who retained their culture and language. Despite this, Islam was adopted in Iran, whether through threat, extortion (increased taxes, outright seizure of property, etc...), murder, or for political reasons. "Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna." Bernard Lewis. Iranians soon became the only reason various Caliphates remained intact, as they were they known throughout the world for their administration skills.
Ayden Ross
Rise of Islam cont'd
The Islamic Golden Age is often confused by people and denoted as "Arabic Golden Age". This could not be further from the truth. It is confused on purpose by Arabs themselves, because the majority of the advancements were the result of Persian, Turkish, and Spanish works. Any work completed and made famous by Arabs was mainly the result of translation and organization of previous Greek works.
This continued effort to fight off and differentiate from the Arabs lead to the adoption of Shia Islam.
Jackson Garcia
Hourly reminder that the ancient Persians loved bussy
Jason Diaz
We get it, you hate Arabs.
Jonathan Watson
You're a disgusting pervert. Kill yourself for using such language.
James Cook
Based Aryans, Semite goatfuckers produce nothing of worth except strife and sorrow for the Aryan man.
Easton Gutierrez
Sorry, boipussy.
Caleb Young
Please delete these vile comments. Please never utter that word again. Ever.
Luke Morales
It's been 10 minutes and these disgusting comments have not been deleted.
Eli Ross
mad as fuck
do you know where you are Hassan?
Isaiah Perez
>delet this
Bentley Turner
>modern persian language was written in arabic script
why are iranics such cucks
Juan Scott
Their native script hardly looks any different
David Mitchell
> Slavics, Turkics, and North Indian peoples who all shared a similar
The discovery of a single tiny stone seal (known as the "Anau seal") with geometric markings from the BMAC site at Anau in Turkmenistan in 2000 led some to claim that the Bactria-Margiana complex had also developed writing, and thus may indeed be considered a literate civilization. It bears five markings strikingly similar to Chinese "small seal" characters, but such characters date from the Qin reforms of roughly 100 AD, while the Anau seal is dated by context to 2,300 BCE. It is therefore an unexplained anomaly. The only match to the Anau seal is a small jet seal of almost identical shape from Niyä (near modern Minfeng) along the southern Silk Road in Xinjiang, assumed to be from the Western Han dynasty.[11]
Alexander Perez
The Scythians I greet in their language: "Good day to you my lord's lady, where are you from?" "Good day to you my lord's lady, where are you from?" and other things: When an Alan woman takes a priest as a lover, you might hear this: "Aren't you ashamed, my lordly lady, that your cunt is being fucked by a priest?" "Aren't you ashamed, my lady, to have a love affair with the priest?
Carson White
Scythian/Eastern Iranian remains a single dialect and ethnic continuum
These are remnants of a vast Scythaic ethno-linguistic continuum that stretched over of Central Asia (including Siberia, Tarim Basin), Eastern Europe, and parts of the Caucasus, South Asia, and West Asia in the 1st millennium BC, and before, otherwise known as Greater Scythia. The large Eastern Iranian continuum in Eastern Europe would continue up to including the 4th century AD by the successors of the Scythians, namely the Sarmatians.
the Oxus civilization, Transsaxonia, Khwarezm, Herat, Bactrian, Sogdian, Sakastan, Khotan, Khasgar, Yarkand, Balkh, Merv are all part of the greater Scythian family
Zoroastrianism is Scythian
Lucas Kelly
>It bears five markings strikingly similar to Chinese "small seal" characters, but such characters date from the Qin reforms of roughly 100 AD >Qin. >100 AD Nope.jpg.
The Qin didn't invent any new forms of writing. It merely standardized Chinese writing since the Warring States used versions of Chinese characters native to their own regions.
Chinkscript ultimately descends from the so-called Oracle Bone fragments.
Nathan Rodriguez
Indo-Europeans domesticated the horse and invented the wheel and the chariot.
Indo-Europeans have conquered the world, colonized entire continents and were the first to travel to space (Asiatics, able copy-cats, but uncreative, arrived second; Africans will never do it on their own).
About 2/3 of all spoken languages in existence is Indo-European.
The Aryan race is the flower of mankind; without it, humanity would hardly be worth anything.
Non-Aryans, are you even trying?
Ryan Cooper
p-please cidf and get your own thread and discuss another fact that will burst your sinocentric ego
>he discovery of a single tiny stone seal (known as the "Anau seal") with geometric markings from the BMAC site at Anau in Turkmenistan in 2000 led some to claim that the Bactria-Margiana complex had also developed writing, and thus may indeed be considered a literate civilization. It bears five markings strikingly similar to Chinese "small seal" characters, but such characters date from the Qin reforms of roughly 100 AD, while the Anau seal is dated by context to 2,300 BCE. It is therefore an unexplained anomaly. The only match to the Anau seal is a small jet seal of almost identical shape from Niyä (near modern Minfeng) along the southern Silk Road in Xinjiang, assumed to be from the Western Han dynasty.[11]
ITT: Poopskin Pajeets can discuss about their strange theories about their "Aryaness" and how white they are
They hide here because no one can see their flags
Jaxson Nguyen
WE WUZ ARYANZ N SHIT
t. Poopskin Pajeet
Liam King
What are good sources in post-islam Iran? I prefer online and recent sources but I'll take anything.
Cameron Bailey
The fuck is Post-Islam Iran? The future?
Iran is pretty fucking Islamic.
Mason Perez
>post-islam Iran
??
There was Iran pre-Islam, Iran currently Islam (and now), what is this 'post' Islam you talk of?
Jeremiah Lee
Sorry we forgot the trigger warning for you tumblr cows
Daniel Adams
Show me the script your people came up with
Joshua Foster
Pajeet and his billion other turd friends need to feel so fucking unique by claiming they are ARYANZ
Luis Carter
This was such a nice thread before you arrived
Juan Smith
What is Iran? What does it mean?
What happened to Persia?
Ian Young
Kek where is this from?
Colton Nguyen
Sorry for phrasing it badly then, english is not my native language, but I think it was obvious I meant post arrival of islam.
Anthony Nguyen
Persia more often than not is the word westeners use to speak about Iran. Like some languages or peoples say (or said) Holland instead of Netherlands or even England instead of Britain. Like iranians call Greece Yunestan (land of ionians).
Persia (Pars/fars) is also the home region of Achaemenids and Sassanids.
Nathaniel Campbell
>what does it mean
Etymologically it comes from Eranshahr and means (Land of) Aryans.
this IE founded the modern and ancient civilizations
Adrian Taylor
>-so great even the Jews revered him, a gentile, as the Messiah
Michael Edwards
>p-please cidf and get your own thread and discuss another fact that will burst your sinocentric ego Stormniggers trying to claim everything under the sun.
Nathaniel Williams
here, have a complimentary compilation
Scythian people: King Madya King Ateas King Idanthyrsa King Protuva King Išpakaia King Targitaia King Skilurus King Palakus Lixopai Arpoxai Colaxai Anacharsa
>Scythians were the first people to master mounted warfare
the first to master mounted warfare were the Yamna/Afanesevo, the ancestors of Scythians
the Scythians have a direct genetic, ethno-linguistic and cultural mounted-warfare continuation with the Yamna/Afanesevo
the Scythians were one of many descendants of Yamna, the other famous ancient warriors include Hittite
Tocharians are also descendants of Yamna/Afanesevo horsemen
Scythians in the latter part of their history conquered Slavs, Indians, Turks
see
Logan Morris
>Sogdian script
Jackson Rogers
I love vertical scripts, so elegant and classy.
Levi Evans
But in independent studies of the inscription, two experts in ancient Chinese — Dr. Qui Xigui of Beijing University and Dr. Victor H. Mair of Penn — concluded that the characters were much like a more advanced script practiced in the Western Han dynasty of 206 B.C. to A.D. 9.
Influences from Central Asia or farther west might have contributed to the invention of Chinese writing. Dr. Mair, who holds that such influences were greater than previously thought, has raised this controversial point. "The Anau seal forces us to rethink in a most radical fashion the origins of the Chinese script," he said.
>the fundamentals of? civilization - organized village life, agriculture, the domestication of animals, weaving," (including mining and metal work) "originated in the oases of Central Asia long before the time of Babylon.
which leads us to Anau, Merv, and other ancient lost cities
>Ruins of over 150 ancient settlements dating back to the early Bronze Age (2500-1700 BCE) have been found in the Murgab delta region which covers an area of more than 3000 sq. km. and contains about 78 oases.
>We like Anau because it was occupied for almost every period. Deposits stretch from the earliest village way of life (4500 BCE) to a Bronze Age town (2300 BCE) to a walled classical city (2nd c. BCE) heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/nisa/anau.htm
>As with Gonur, Kelleli is a Bronze Age (2500-1200 BCE) settlement located some 40 km northwest of Gonur.
>The Anau seal forces us to rethink in a most radical fashion the origins of the Chinese script Victor Mair's theories on the Indo European origins of ancient China are not mainstream whatsoever.
If the Anau seal is the precursor to Chinese writing you would have to explain why it evolved to oracle bone and back to small seal.
>Literally replying in a bait thread. This guy is a Wewuz poster. Don't bother.
Everything you see posted by him is actually copypasta.
Benjamin Wilson
>iranic thread >automatically derails to autistic thread about aryans and chinkboos
This is why we can't have nice things.
Jackson Reyes
t. cidf
you know what wasn't also mainstream? the IE origins of Tarim Basment dwellers
but science prevails, unless discovers are kept hidden or attacked for political purposes
Ryan Long
> is actually copypasta
implying you arent copypasta yourself, chang
Jeremiah Collins
what about Dr. Qui Xigui of Beijing University?
is he also a conartist by your standards?
David Scott
Gonur looks amazing
Blake Jenkins
Where does Dr. Qiu Xigui claim the Anau seals were a precursor to the Shang oracle bone script?
>Dr. Gilbert L. Mattos, a specialist in ancient Chinese writing at Seton Hall University, said three of the characters definitely resembled Chinese. But it was not clear, he said, whether this was true writing. "This is certainly a significant find," Dr. Mattos said, "but it's hard to interpret at this point."
>Dr. Sarah Allan, a scholar of Chinese and Asian studies at Dartmouth, agreed that the inscription "looks extraordinarily Chinese," but she questioned whether there was enough information to identify it as "a script of a known period."
>Other experts said some symbols of completely different ancient Asian scripts bore a likeness to one another even though there was no evidence that they are related. One of the inscription's characters, variously described as the "bow tie" or "figure eight," resembles signs or design motifs in many cultures, including some as far away as Easter Island.
Jonathan Collins
>cant into reading the articls
here it is for the mentally handicapped
>Prof. Qiu provided one other electrifying piece of information. He had a fairly clear memory of the discovery of a nearly identical seal in—of all places—Xingiang (Eastern Central Asia). That … would also fill in the long gap between Anau (Western Central Asia) and the heartland of China. … I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together.
awaiting more cidf butthurt
Noah Powell
>controversial findings that break tradition, politics, and dogma are well accepted in academia
and the uncontested origin of the Tarim basement dwellers also broke old beliefs
remember Galileo, Copernicus, Colombus....
remarkable! you now have a new subscriber
Daniel Allen
>Can't even quote the right source. >upenn.edu/gazette/1101/hughes3.html Why don't you post the whole quote? Mair is the one that suggests the Anau seal is ancestral to Chinese writing not Proff. Qiu.
>Prof. Qiu says that both of the Central Asia lignite seals look as though they were written by people who had contact with the Chinese writing system and may have tried to imitate it without getting the forms entirely right.
Josiah Robinson
you literally have to remove his statements in order to disinform the naive masses of Veeky Forums
> The first thing [Qiu] said was, “If we ignore the archaeological context, then I would say this inscription can’t be earlier than the Western Han (206 B.C.-9 A.D.).” This is almost exactly what I said when I first saw the inscription. That is why I pressed Fred Hiebert so hard about the dating, but Fred insisted that the stratigraphy, pottery, and everything else pegs the signet at 2300 B.C. I have to believe Fred because he is a competent (nay, gifted) archeologist, but I’m going to quiz him hard about the dating again when I get back to Penn … Prof. Qiu provided one other electrifying piece of information. He had a fairly clear memory of the discovery of a nearly identical seal in—of all places—Xingiang (Eastern Central Asia). That … would also fill in the long gap between Anau (Western Central Asia) and the heartland of China. … Prof. Qiu says that both of the Central Asia lignite seals look as though they were written by people who had contact with the Chinese writing system and may have tried to imitate it without getting the forms entirely right. Maybe. But if Fred’s dating is reliable, we have to go back to [another explanation]: namely, the flow of influence was operating in the opposite direction. I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together.
now whether or not you like the fact that the writing predated chinese is entirely your issue and does not change the facts
Julian Reed
>1338308
>Prof Qiu: I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together.
> the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C.
>IE peoples who brought bronze metallurgy, writing, and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C.
well that doesn't make any SENSE!!!!
how could they do all that?
are they superhuman?
this is very wrong and not true at all. they are dumb steppedwellers.
they have no mettalurgy, horses, chariots or civilization!!!
it is all a myth! the tocharian, scythian, bactrians are fake!!
Easton Hughes
>Prof Qiu: I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together.
> the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C.
>IE peoples who brought bronze metallurgy, writing, and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C.
well that doesn't make any SENSE!!!!
how could they do all that?
are they superhuman?
this is very wrong and not true at all. they are dumb steppedwellers.
they have no mettalurgy, horses, chariots or civilization!!!
it is all a myth! the tocharian, scythian, bactrians are fake!!
John Brooks
Sounds like a paradigm shift.
Brayden White
>he wrote another letter to Wilford describing Qiu’s reaction and his own ruminations on the subject. >Trying this hard to distort's Qiu's words. >Ignore specialists suspicious of these sweeping claims. Qiu:The first thing [Qiu] said was, “If we ignore the archaeological context, then I would say this inscription can’t be earlier than the Western Han (206 B.C.-9 A.D.).”
Mair:This is almost exactly what I said when I first saw the inscription. That is why I pressed Fred Hiebert so hard about the dating, but Fred insisted that the stratigraphy, pottery, and everything else pegs the signet at 2300 B.C. I have to believe Fred because he is a competent (nay, gifted) archeologist, but I’m going to quiz him hard about the dating again when I get back to Penn …
Qiu: Prof. Qiu provided one other electrifying piece of information. He had a fairly clear memory of the discovery of a nearly identical seal in—of all places—Xingiang (Eastern Central Asia). That … would also fill in the long gap between Anau (Western Central Asia) and the heartland of China. … Prof. Qiu says that both of the Central Asia lignite seals look as though they were written by people who had contact with the Chinese writing system and may have tried to imitate it without getting the forms entirely right.
Mair:Maybe. But if Fred’s dating is reliable, we have to go back to [another explanation]: namely, the flow of influence was operating in the opposite direction. I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together
Owen Rodriguez
dont believe in the lies!!!
its reallly retarded pop-science fiction!!!!
STOP SPAMMING THE LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Juan Ross
THISS!!!!
DONT READ THE ARTICLES ITT!!
iTS SCAMMM!
those professors are idiots!!!
Jackson Martin
>Like everyone else, including Hiebert, Mair urges caution. >“We have three characters,” he points out. “I wouldn’t make any big claims about anything based on that.” Why you don't you actually read the article? Mair is the one that exercises caution.
The letter was written by Mair not Qiu. Mair includes his own speculations independent of Qiu.
Jeremiah Powell
>damage control
first you attack Prof. Mair's credibility and professional reputation then you falsely claim on Prof. Qui then proof is provided contrary to your claims on Prof. Qui then you go all out on a butthurt rampage then you do a complete 180 degree flip and support Prof. Mair and force us to trust your misinformation on the grounds of your authority
classic actions of a socipathic manipulative shill
Liam Carter
>first you attack Prof. Mair's credibility and professional reputation His research isn't mainstream.
>then you falsely claim on Prof. Qui >then proof is provided contrary to your claims on Prof. Qui >then you go all out on a butthurt rampage >Being this bad at reading comprehension Qiu:The first thing [Qiu] said was, “If we ignore the archaeological context, then I would say this inscription can’t be earlier than the Western Han (206 B.C.-9 A.D.).”
Qiu: Prof. Qiu provided one other electrifying piece of information. He had a fairly clear memory of the discovery of a nearly identical seal in—of all places—Xingiang (Eastern Central Asia). That … would also fill in the long gap between Anau (Western Central Asia) and the heartland of China. … Prof. Qiu says that both of the Central Asia lignite seals look as though they were written by people who had contact with the Chinese writing system and may have tried to imitate it without getting the forms entirely right.
Mair:This is almost exactly what I said when I first saw the inscription. That is why I pressed Fred Hiebert so hard about the dating, but Fred insisted that the stratigraphy, pottery, and everything else pegs the signet at 2300 B.C. I have to believe Fred because he is a competent (nay, gifted) archeologist, but I’m going to quiz him hard about the dating again when I get back to Penn …
Mair:Maybe. But if Fred’s dating is reliable, we have to go back to [another explanation]: namely, the flow of influence was operating in the opposite direction. I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together
Connor Ross
>then you do a complete 180 degree flip and support Prof. Mair You are distorting Mair's claim not I.
>and force us to trust your misinformation on the grounds of your authority >classic actions of a socipathic manipulative shill >Says the one engaging in sophistry >When Victor Mair flew to China six months ago, he met with Dr. Qiu Xigui, professor of Chinese languages at Beijing University. After he showed him a photo of the Anau stamp seal, he wrote another letter to Wilford describing Qiu’s reaction and his own ruminations on the subject. The letter to Wilford was written by Mair.
Unless the author of the letter was Qiu there's no reason "I" is referring to Qiu.
William Brooks
>His research isn't mainstream.
what authority do you have on this matter to claim this?
are you an accomplished, respected, tenured professor of archaelogy, sinology with over 40+ years experience in the field?
the Tocharians were not even fathomed until their recent discovery. and Tocharians are still not mainstream, who the hell has even heard them? not many
the nature of this matter is that Oxus civilization, Andronovo, Bactriana-Margiana are also not mainstream, go up to a person in the street and ask if they are aware of any of these terms.. then ask if they are aware of Romans, Babylonians, Israelites, ancient China and gunpowder..
mainstream is just your lame attempt to discredit concrete historical facts and archaeology
now what professional credentials and what personal published research papers do you have on this subject?
if not then you are a simple consumer of information, and a very biased and ethnocentric consumer that denies facts based on your personal bias.
the facts and evidence speak for itself, the professional interpretation is outlined in the papers and articles ITT
with support for Oxus origins of Chinese script
Ryder Hall
its Prof Qiu saying it you lazy bum, scroll up and read
why the fuck do you even manipulate on a published article?
not expecting you to even provide factual and honest response as it goes against your agenda
Evan Hughes
>what authority do you have on this matter to claim this? >Sino-Platonic Papers The journal was established in 1986 by Victor H. Mair, to publish and encourage "unconventional or controversial" research by "younger, not yet well established, scholars and independent authors"
>mainstream is just your lame attempt to discredit concrete historical facts and archaeology No one outside Mair's circle thinks Old Chinese came from Indo European.There's no genetic,linguistic or archaeological evidence that Indo Europeans ruled Northern China.
There's ample evidence for the westward transmission of bronze/ferrous metallurgy,crop domestication(barley,wheat,etc/),chariots and equestrianism.
This doesn't mean indigenous developments such as crop domestication(millet,peaches etc.),sericulture,laquer and pottery should be distorted to fit narratives.
The ultimate origin of those inventions may have been with Indo Europeans but they had to go through intermediaries such as the Qiang/Rong(Mongoloids) to even reach the early Sinitics.
>the facts and evidence speak for itself, the professional interpretation is outlined in the papers and articles ITT >with support for Oxus origins of Chinese script All you did was distort Mair's letter to falsify Qiu's claims.
Mair even states that the evidence is inconclusive and that the crux of the argument lies with Fred Hiebert's date.
Jace Bailey
>its Prof Qiu saying it you lazy bum, scroll up and read >When Victor Mair flew to China six months ago, he met with Dr. Qiu Xigui, professor of Chinese languages at Beijing University. After he showed him a photo of the Anau stamp seal, he wrote another letter to Wilford describing Qiu’s reaction and his own ruminations on the subject. >This is almost exactly what I said when I first saw the inscription. That is why I pressed Fred Hiebert so hard about the dating, but Fred insisted that the stratigraphy, pottery, and everything else pegs the signet at 2300 B.C. I have to believe Fred because he is a competent (nay, gifted) archeologist, but I’m going to quiz him hard about the dating again when I get back to Penn …
>Maybe. But if Fred’s dating is reliable, we have to go back to [another explanation]: namely, the flow of influence was operating in the opposite direction. I have also all this time been saying that the ultimate origins of Chinese writing lie not in Mesopotamia or Egypt, but that they should be intimately linked with the same complex of peoples who brought bronze metallurgy and the horse-drawn chariot during the second millennium B.C. The Anau seal brings us one step closer to figuring out how all of the pieces of the jigsaw fit together Why would Qiu refer to himself in third person if he was the author of the letter? Do you not understand what "I" is?
Connor Morgan
>Dr. Gilbert L. Mattos, a specialist in ancient Chinese writing at Seton Hall University, said three of the characters definitely resembled Chinese. But it was not clear, he said, whether this was true writing. "This is certainly a significant find," Dr. Mattos said, "but it's hard to interpret at this point."
>Dr. Sarah Allan, a scholar of Chinese and Asian studies at Dartmouth, agreed that the inscription "looks extraordinarily Chinese," but she questioned whether there was enough information to identify it as "a script of a known period."
>Other experts said some symbols of completely different ancient Asian scripts bore a likeness to one another even though there was no evidence that they are related. One of the inscription's characters, variously described as the "bow tie" or "figure eight," resembles signs or design motifs in many cultures, including some as far away as Easter Island.
>he thinks IE did not live in what is now China, Mongolia, Siberia for eons
seriously, this board is too advanced for you try /b/ or lurkmoar and get educated
Tocharians from c.2000BC in what is now modern China
IE Afanasevo culture of eastern Siberia, Mongolia and China c. 3500BC
>Qijia culture region of Gansu (centered in Lanzhou) >The Yuezhi (Indo-European) originally lived in Gansu and lasted until around 100 BCE, when they finally succumbed to Xiongnu (Turko-Mongoloids) and were forced to emigrate. >Siberian and Central Asian cultures, in particular with the Seima-Turbino complex. >domesticted horses found at many Qijia sites, of Indo-European culture >The Qijia culture and Majiayao culture took root in Gansu from 3100 BC >The State of Qin, later to become the founding state of the Chinese empire, grew out from the southeastern part of Gansu, specifically the Tianshui area. The Qin name is believed to have originated, in part, from the area >The IE people extensive contact with Chinese in this area birthed the Qin
Wheat and common millet were introduced to northern china from the west. Although westerners think of china as a solely rice-based civilization, wheat and other grains are very important in northern china even today. Also vines and wine and other foodstuffs were introduced from the west.
It is important to remember that Xi'an, the capital of the Han dynasty , is quite far west, and close to the western corridor of Gansu, which leads to the tocharians.
The importance of the horse and chariots to chinese ciliizations can not be overemphasized. It was clearly inteoduced from the west, from indoeuropeans who developed the technology.
The tocharians, bactrians, soghdians were all city based, and highly developed ciliizations. The Han dynasty refers to greek bactira as DaYuan, and chinese travellers highly praised their cities and products, and the prosperous, industrious and peaceful inhabitants. The silk road was created to trade with DaYuan.
The nomadic steppe peoples such as scythians also had aspects of highly developed civilization, such as techincally refined and beautiful gold and iron working and clothing. Also they must have corralled their horses somewhere, implying they had at least semipermanent settlements. Probly similar to how the huns had one major tentcity as their capital in europe. They werent just nomads, but probly a seminomadic civilization.
The chinese learned of buddhism from the missionary efforts of grecobactrian buddhist kindgdoms and tocharians.
There are more examples of cultural and technological innovations that spread from the indoeuropean west to china, and there was a lot of back and forth even before the silk road.
Noah Fisher
Oh it's the same stormnigger shitposting on other Central Asian threads.
If you can't tell the difference between historical and modern day China then there's no helping you.
I'm not interesting in addressing the same debunked conclusions.
Josiah Torres
AAARGGGHHH!!
I TOLD YOU ONCE ALREADY!!!!
because they are all IDIOT BABOONS and steppemonkeys
Eli Bailey
>crux of the argument lies with Fred Hiebert's date. >all archaeology is NOT based solely on the dating of objects, not just this
apparently that is how archaeology works it is based on the latest technological methods of dating archaeological finds
with your absurd claims you would have to apply the same bias too all archaeological finds, since they all depend on dating
unless you have specific factial claims against his competence and dating methods, you have no right to preach your ignorance and bias with baseless and factless claims
John Bell
>crux of the argument lies with Fred Hiebert's date. >all archaeology is NOT based solely on the dating of objects, not just this
apparently that is how archaeology works it is based on the latest technological methods of dating archaeological finds
with your absurd claims you would have to apply the same bias too all archaeological finds, since they all depend on dating
unless you have specific factial claims against his competence and dating methods, you have no right to preach your ignorance and bias with baseless and factless claims
Jack Adams
Mair's words not mine. " But if Fred’s dating is reliable, we have to go back to [another explanation]: "
You can't even differentiate between what Mair claims Qiu said and Mair's own speculations.
Michael Smith
>bonehead not understanding archaeology
unless you have specific factual claims against his competence and dating methods, you have no right to preach your ignorance and bias with baseless and factless claims
the reliability of dating is the foundation of modern archaeology
if you just have an unenlightened feel that dating is unreliable without any specific factual proof to back it up then your ignorance and idiocy deems all of archaeology as psuedoscience
it has been more than a decade since dating and no professional has come forward with any proof or evidence claiming the dating is invalid,
you are obviously beyond retarded and beyond hope
Oliver Kelly
>unless you have specific factual claims against his competence and dating methods, you have no right to preach your ignorance and bias with baseless and factless claims >Like everyone else, including Hiebert, Mair urges caution. > “We have three characters,” he points out. “I wouldn’t make any big claims about anything based on that.” All Mair is saying is IF Hiebert's methodology is sound and IF these three characters represent more.
You twisted Mair's letter to make it appear Qiu supported Mair's views.
Qiu made four claims.
1.The Anau seal resembled Han era seal script.
2.There was a similar seal discovered in Xinjiang.
3.Anau and Xinjiang seals were made by individuals who knew of Chinese writing.
4.Anau and Xinjiang seals are derivative of Chinese writing.
pro Chinese origin: Qiu
pro Western origin: Mair
neutral: Mattos,Allan etc.
Jordan White
thats your own opinion based on bias and low intelligence
you are not an authority of this matter and we dont need your retardation to misrepresent the articles and studies
the more you expose your retardation the easier it is to ignore your retarded posts
i have read all the papers and articles and given all the evidence and facts have come to a logical conclusion which fits Prof. Qiu, Prof Mair and many others
whether it violates your sense of authority and biased agenda is not my concern
we dont need a megamaniacal mental midget to khan and lecture us on this subject
all further shitposting and butthurt from u will be ignored
Noah Garcia
Stormnigger in denial
Henry Anderson
The term Arya is used in ancient Persian texts, for example in the behistun inscription from the 5th century BCE, in which the Persian kings Darius the Great and Xerxes are described as "Aryans of Aryan stock" (arya arya chiça). The inscription also refers to the deity Ahura Mazda as "the god of the Aryans", and to the ancient Persian language as "Aryan". In this sense the word seems to have referred to the elite culture of the ancient Iranians, including both linguistic, cultural and religious aspects. [57][59] The word also has a central place in the Zoroastrian religion in which the "Aryan expanse" (Airyana Vaejah) is described as the mythical homeland of the Iranian people's and as the center of the world
Christopher Rivera
This was a good thread lads. I wanna learn more about the Ncient Aryans.
Justin Cooper
>The Avesta clearly uses airya/airyan as an ethnic name (Vd. 1; Yt. 13.143-44, etc.), where it appears in expressions such as airyāfi; daiŋˊhāvō "Iranian lands, peoples", airyō.šayanəm "land inhabited by Iranians", and airyanəm vaējō vaŋhuyāfi; dāityayāfi; "Iranian stretch of the good Dāityā", the river Oxus, the modern Āmū Daryā
Jayden Miller
flabbergasted
Oliver Sanders
The word Arianus (pronounces:/haireeˈainus/) was used to designate Ariana, the area comprising present Herat in the western part of Afghanistan
Alexander Russell
>Hairee Ainus Fuck off
Nicholas Martinez
Yes Ariana shares an etymological origin with Iran/Eranshahr. With Aryavarta too.
Robert Gray
Did Persians really always call themselves Iran/Iranian? Why did everyone refer to them as Persia?
Chase Reyes
What? I thought the Persians were Sunni til they got invaded by the Safavids.
Easton Campbell
is it possible to go on vacations to Iran to take pictures of ruins? is it possible to go to the beach in the Persian gulf? is it well comunicated with Dubai?
Leo Lopez
Persian (Paris/Parsian) has just been the Greek name for us. Correct. Iran was Sunni until the Safavid's.
