Is there a single place on earth with more culture, history, art...

Came here to post this

France.

Not per square meter

I will admit that Italians have probably had the most influence on the world we live in,

Hell, it's hard-pressing to walk around anywhere in the world and NOT see Italian/Latin influence, from the Italic script we write in to the Catholic Church's global hold in the realm of world religion. From the Art and Architecture of the Renaissance and Enlightenment to the classical music and opera that play in symphony halls worldwide.

San Marino is also a contender

I disagree.

Wanna compare artists, composers, food, cinema, architecture?

France was an identifiable entity for many centuries, while Italia was just a geographical description.

France has had much greater composers than Italy, especially post Baroque.

Italian opera, post Puccini, lives on its laurels.

Way more people speak French.

French painters dominate since @1800.

French wine is far superior to Italian.

>India

Don't make me say it.

>All opera, post Puccini is bullshit

Fixed that for you.

>all this eurocentrism
heh heh

Simply because our contemporaries in India don't know how to poo in loo doesn't nullify their civilization's past accomplishments.

I'll give you artists.

Vivaldi, Verdi, Rossini, Marcello, Scarlatti, Paganini to name a few composers.

Italian food is simply better than French food there are no two ways about it.

Italian architecture would be better than French architecture, even if the only architect they ever produced were Palladio. If you add in only Bernini and Boromini and ignore all the other Renaissance, Baroque, Modernist, Futurist, Eclecticist architects Itally produced it would still be superior.

I don't know enough about French cinema (although what I've seen I've loved), but Italian cinema is also pretty great. Possibly less voluminous than France's in terms of quality works but Fellini and Antonioni are both excellent so I'll concede cinema as well.

A lot of this is obviously subjective but I would rate both countries equally at the very least (if I were to be generous and accept that Italy isn't the better one) and as Italy is slightly smaller, they win per square metre.

This is objectively incorrect. America has had the most influence on the modern world, whether you like it or not. You could find evidence of this on nearly everyone's person. Take Iphones/smartphones for example. We live in a world where people who don't even have running water are carrying around the latest in smartphone technology. Think about the importance of the English language worldwide. You can't seriously think that was dorectly caused by the brits, do you? English only became THE lingua franca due to the status of the United States as a world power. If America were to fall this instant, the entire world would be torn asunder.

B-BUT POO IN LOO RIGHT? FUCKING DESIGNATED SHITTING STREETS

Am I cool yet?

The difference is that nobody laments the influence of France, Britain or Italy on their country, whereas everyone laments (and some countries like France, actively combat) the influence of American culture. "We have become so Americanised" is used the world over and only ever in a negative way.

>The difference is that nobody laments the influence of France, Britain or Italy on their country
Everybody the world over hates Britain--admittedly less than the US, but a substantial amount nonetheless

Firstly, there was no mention of a positive/negative value of the influence.
Second, call it whatever you want, but the modern world wouldn't have many of the commodities we take for granted without the US. Even now, by using the Internet, you are relying on American culture.

>Is there a single place on earth with more culture, history, art, aesthetic and overall refinement per square meter than Italy?

Read the OP. Where exactly do you see the aesthetic and the refined in American culture and its influence? How can you even dare to compare to that of Italy or other European nations. I'm not saying all American culture is shit, because it isn't, a lot of it is great but it's no Italy.

Yes, but nobody hates the influence their culture has had on their own.

>All these Italophobic and narrowminded people not knowing dimensions.

A place like the Vatican has more history PER SQUARE METER then Russia which just goes on to the tundra. When did Veeky Forums become this retarded?

The Vatican is a historical oddity, you should really be counting it as one with the rest of Italy.

>Where exactly do you see the aesthetic and the refined in American culture and its influence?
Everywhere on earth, virgin.

>French wine is far superior to Italian.

top kek

Greece, obviously. China is disqualified for being so huge. So Greece, than Italy. It's a benefit-of-the-doubt to the conquerors, though, since who knows how cultured Carthage was, prior to being razed.

>muh country dickwaving

why not china

>what is a square meter?

Greece's problem is that for a large chunk of history, jack shit happened there. At least until recently Italy has been relevant, well past the time of the empires it had.

>Greece's problem is that for a large chunk of history, jack shit happened there.
Explain. Greece had Ancient Greece and Eastern Roman Empire, it's only when Western Europe began to get the spotlight during the 1300s-1400s where Greece stopped being relevant and even then Greek scholars who fled from Constantinople after 1453 helped kickstart the Rennaisance.

We have Naples

Japan

>per square meter
Vatican. Outplayed on your own field, babe.

The city states under carthage's influence produced jackshit apart from children's cemeteries so probably not that much

My living room

Who the fuck is the idiot that measures humanistic subjects in square meters?

>Italian food is better than french food

no

Italians understand beauty more than any other country, maybe because Italian women are the best-looking in the world. But seriously, from Tinto Brass to Mario Salieri to Milo Manara, they're just god-tier at eroticism and even porn. Even their fashion and cars are a level above the rest.

I fucking love 'em.

Both are overrated as fuck.

That collection would have been beautiful were it not for the icons on the dresses, Byzantine decorative patterns are more than enough.

They also missed a trick by not producing a men's collection influenced by the garments of Byzantine royalty/nobility.

I've had French food in France and Italian food in Italy. French food is in my top 5, but Italian food is better. The most overrated Mediterranean cuisine IMO is the Spanish.

>sinoboos on suicide watch

inb4

>MUH WHS IS EUROCENTRICE EBIL!!11

>India

>t. Pierre
Whatever you are, you are due to Italians

I agree with all these points except Architecture. French architecture caught up to italian architecture in the XVIIIth century, and simply outclassed it in the XIXth. There is a reason most of pre WWII styles have French names.

Italian Futurists are better though, and French architecture died with Le Corbusier influencing the whole academia.

I would say arguably the fertile crescent, the area stretching from coastal china to manchuria to japan, and northern south america/central america are probably the three most culturally significant areas on the planet, and Italy is nothing but one of the many descendants of the fertile crescent, and doesn't stack up against the pyramids alone, which is only the tip of the iceberg of the civilizations that formed along the crescent over the last ten thousand years.

One could say that Le Corbusier was Swiss, but that would be a dick-move.

I cannot stress enough the importance of the importance of Vitruvius (who I forgot to mention) a Roman, and later the Italian Renaissance on architecture and specifically Palladio on Western Architecture. Without them and the ancient Greeks who preceeded the entirety of French architecture would simply not exist. Also, the Rococo was arguably a result of the Baroque (started in Italy and better than the Rococo ever was) and Empire Neoclassicism, Beaux-Arts etc. all stem from Renaissance Neoclassicism and ultimately, Palladio. They're fantastic in their own right, but not as pioneering as what the Italians produced. Art Deco and Art Nouveau were indeed pioneering styles and the French did indeed have some of the best examples of them, but they're not enough to "beat" Italy's heritage. We forgot to mention French Gothic cathedrals that are of great importance but Gothic architecture, wasn't exclusively French.

>while Italia was just a geographical description.
You mean like ancient greece which is one of the originators of western civilization?

>you will never be Mediterranean master race
>you will always be scandinavian

t. anglo

France desu.

Italy was only relevant for a short time during the Renaissance. Other than that it just has some ruins of Rome, which was already pleb as fuck.

>French architecture caught up to italian architecture in the XVIIIth century

What the fuck. France was the home of all Western architecture throughout the Middle Ages. And then again in the 17th century.

>France was the home of all Western architecture throughout the Middle Ages
Are the Europeans of /int/ nothing but French and Poles?

No wonder why we have shitloads of HRE and Eternal Anglo shitposting.

Veeky Forums*

Let me guess, you thought Gothic architecture was created by Goths?

I think Italy overall is best.

>17th century
17th century European architecture is dominated by the Baroque and I'm sorry but that undeniably goes to Italy. Not only did they invent it, but no other country even came close to being as good at it as they were. Borromini and Bernini were not only ground-breaking architects but also exceptional sculptors (pic-related).

Secular Baroque is entirely French m8. That means all castles, palaces, and everything else that isn't a church.

Vatican City, San Marino, Monaco, Liechtenstein

>San Marino
What are you people talking about?

It's a village in the mountains that was never anywhere close to relevant in all of history.

Similar for Monaco and Liechtenstein, Monaco was a fucking pirate'd den which is now just covered in ugly commieblocks, the most historic building being the garish casino.

CHYNUH

>per square feet
A lot of Italy is fucking nothing and farmland. A city state that has been around since before the fall of Rome has more history, culture and art per square feet than any nation on Earth. You're fucking retarded.

top kek

>French wine is far superior to Italian.
lel

you people have done nothing and will never do anything.

b-b-but be proud of your nordic heritage!

Lets see where modern offices are without the paperclip

Checkmate, Slovene.

It does when they smear it with shit

>A city state that has been around since before the fall of Rome
That's a meme, the first mention of San Marino is from the latter Middle Ages.

>more history, culture and art per square feet than any nation on Earth
It has little history, and no culture or art.

>You're fucking retarded.
Coming from the guy who thinks a place being small means it has culture.

A fact accepted pretty much unanimously by everyone who knows what they're talking about.

>Measuring culture in square meters

This board is something else

Yes.

In every thread about Germans and Normans, you can count on a frog chimping out about WE WUZ BEST MILITARY/CONQUERORS AND MERDDEEE

It's sad when you can tell where most people on a flag user board are from because they are so autistic.

The correct unit of culture is moisture content of memes in kilograms cubic meter/

no, you're making this up
forbes.com/sites/katiebell/2015/12/02/the-ten-best-wines-of-2015/#4458df525945

Switzerland has more per square meter. Also Montenegro and Monaco.

doesn't matter cus California's is superior to both

>hundreds of different soil types for every kind of grape
>consistently beats the best of French and Italian wines at blind taste tests

I don't even know why people still buy European other than tradition.

Are you just naming small countries?

Just because you can't get any of the good French/Italian wines in burgerland (or you pay 3x times the price you would here), doesn't mean Californian wine is better.

What is this?

Yes, because the OP specified "per square meter."

As for the wine, European and American judges determined in multiple blind tests that some brand new Californian wines produced by people with no experience in the craft were superior to French vineyards with hundreds of years of practice behind them. Our soil is just plain superior, shouldn't be too surprising considering that centuries of grape production have drained French soil of the nutrients which made their grapes good in the first place.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)#Tasting_replications

The French have taken cooking as an art form more seriously than the Italians for centuries

That still doesn't make it tastier!

In terms of composers nobody beats german world

That's retarded, and check that test. Almost all the judges picked French wines for the top of their list.

Unesco World Heritage sites by country.

The Low Countries, at least from the 15th century onwards.
>10/10 German composers
Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Shoahberg
Period of dominance: 1780-1920 (140 years)
>10/10 Flemish composers
Dufay, Ockeghem, Obrecht, Josquin, Agricola, Gombert, Clemens, Willaert, Crecquillon, Rore, Lassus
Period of dominance: 1420-1600 (180 years)
Belgians > Germans when it comes to music.

>t. Someone who's never been to Rome and had to drag through three feet deep ponds of trash and litter and dodge between gangs of durkas and dindus

>German composers
>omits J.S Bach, Handel, Brahms and Mendelssohn
>mentions a bunch of irrelevant Flems no-ones heard of.

Yeah seems legit

>Bauchtism
>Handjoblel
>Bruhms
>Mehdelssohn
>implying any of these are 10/10 let alone better than giants like Ockeghem and Josquin

>>mentions a bunch of irrelevant Flems no-ones heard of
Your own ignorance is not an argument against their prominence friendo.

France.

Spain would be a bit behind Italy.

Memes = Culture

Finland wins this one

>china
you fucken wot
the communist regime has been hell-bent on destroying pretty much everything it could from their past
even when it doesn't actually want to destroy things purposely, they still do because "muh progress", see all the shit that get flooded to build dams

Japan.