First thing I want to say is that I do not know much about warfare or history in general.
I made this thread because I have alway wondered how it was possible for those guys to get that far.
Take Germany for example. They had just lost the biggest conflict the world had ever seen only 20 years ago. They were crippled both economically and military-wise. How did they get back on their feet so quickly? How exactly was it possible to beat half of Europe within weeks? Tom e (as I said, I don’t know much) it appears that throughout the centuries, France and Germany had always been roughly equally strong, and in WWI the germans didn’t really make any progress, but all oft the sudden they manage to defeat the french military in the blink of an eye?
The same thing with Napoleon: France had been at war for 10 years, a massive revolution had happened, the whole country was in a turmoil, but suddenly they are able to defeat everyone?
Also, I saw some screenshots of battles where french armies beat a prussian army that outnubered them 3:1. How is this possible? I get that you can defeat much larger hosts when you have the technological advantage or much better tactics, e.g. Cortez vs natives or the mongols with their horse archery. But wasn’t the technological level basically even? How does one western european army beat another under these circumstances?
Napoleon & Hitler
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napoleon.org
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Hitler didn't really do that well especially compared to Napoleon.There is no reason to lump the two of them together.
>I made this thread because I have alway wondered how it was possible for those guys to get that far.
I'll just start out by posting this: napoleon.org
Now, on to the rest of your full retard.
>Take Germany for example. They had just lost the biggest conflict the world had ever seen only 20 years ago.
Correct
>They were crippled both economically and military-wise.
Incorrect. The only thing holding them back militarily was the Versailles Treaty, which was pretty much a gentleman's agreement that Germany's army would not exceed a certain number. This actually freed up a lot of their annual budget for other things. On top of that, the Versailles Treaty came with a special committee that would each year calculate how much Germany could afford to pay France. And Hitler simply stopped paying altogether. WW1 left German industry and factories untouched (unlike, say, Belgium). There was no grand economic miracle.
As for France, that was simply a matter of getting rid of the aristocracy and taxing everyone according to the same standards, no privileges.
>How exactly was it possible to beat half of Europe within weeks?
Hitler had the carved up remnants of the Austrian-Hungarian empire as easy pickings with nobody to defend them, and a France that had its spine broken 20 years earlier and was 20 years behind on military doctrine. The moment he had to contend with real opponents (Soviet Union, Britain after it got its shit kicked in on the continent and decided a military update was required) he got his shit pushed in. Hitler's success was the faillure of Versailles.
Napoleon in the next post.
My impression is that Hitler mostly sucked as a military leader and had to rely on his generals for war, while Napoleon was the mastermind behind his military conflicts.
>The same thing with Napoleon: France had been at war for 10 years, a massive revolution had happened, the whole country was in a turmoil, but suddenly they are able to defeat everyone?
What do you mean "suddenly"? You know that the Revolutionary Wars ended with massive expansion of territory for France, right? Even before Napoleon became consul the Netherlands, Spain and Italy (Napoleon's job, albeit as only a general) got their shit pushed in. The Revolution made France stronger, not weaker.
>Also, I saw some screenshots of battles where french armies beat a prussian army that outnubered them 3:1. How is this possible?
Napoleon did it, Hannibal did it, Caesar did it, Alexander did it. Now do you begin to understand why a lot of people think Napoleon is the bees knees?
>But wasn’t the technological level basically even? How does one western european army beat another under these circumstances?
Strategy, discipline, terrain advantage, troop advantage (artillery isn't a lot of use in the woods for example, but having more artillery than the enemy in an open plain can offset their total advantage in numbers).
I still don't get why you're grouping Napoleon and Hitler together when so many great leaders in history pulled their country out of an economic or political disaster and revitalized it.
It's not even about that. Napoleon's conquests are larger and more enduring, whereas Hitler didn't really conquer that much.
>Also, I saw some screenshots of battles where french armies beat a prussian army that outnubered them 3:1. How is this possible?
Napoleon was a military genius
He used great mobility tactics that rendered enemies superior numbers irrelevant
Blitzkrieg was basically Napoleon's tactics updated to modern warfare btw
I think it's about comparing the personalities and brilliance of these two historical figures, so it seems like a point of utmost relevance, but yes, I'd say Napoleon's conquests seem way more impressive.
Hitler had a few brilliant moments like Ardennes, Norway, Czechoslovakia, but honestly his regime is a series of fuckups and shortsightedness.
Napoleon not only militarily conquered Europe but left a permanent legacy in areas like law and administration.
You are comparing a giant to a midget, pretty much. Napoleon should be compared to the likes of Alexander or Frederick the Great, not small time dictators like Hitler.
I think that Hitler's still quite decent politician, but really poor in almost anything else.
Germany was certainly not crippled by WW1. Its territory was left completely untouched by the war and not even invaded, while the industrial heartland of France and Belgium had been completely destroyed. Germany came out of WW1 in a much stronger relative position than it entered it. Not to mention by the time of WW2 it had twice the population of France.
And France started winning the Revolutionary War a year after it started. By the time Napoleon came to power France had already conquered Belgium, the Rhineland, and a bit of Italy.
>Napoleon not only militarily conquered Europe but left a permanent legacy in areas like law and administration.
And even the French hate him for it today. Napoleon's story is like a greek tragedy, and the fact that lefties in France hate him makes me sick to my stomach. Sometimes I feel that Napoleon was more than France deserves.
>And even the French hate him for it today
You're fucking retarded, the vast majority of people and the political class still admire him.
>inb4 some irrelevant tumblrtard or twitter post
>inb4 quoting a politician saying that Napoleon once did something wrong
Idiot, leftists hate Napoleon because they hate France.
Hitler was a economic and military genius. Ignore the brainwashed retards ITT.
He brought the country from bankrupcy, and took over the majority of Europe.
>Allow the youngsters to watch Anglo Media
What did you expect?
They straight up demonise anyone to make themselfs feel better about their special Snowflake Empire except for maybe Rome
Germany was recovering before Hitler took over.
And in any case Hitler's policy had only tangentially to do with the economy. His major and more or less only concern was rearmament.
German standard of living stagnated under Hitler even before the war. German people drank chicory and ate dog.
>You're fucking retarded, the vast majority of people and the political class still admire him.
And yet it's only the far right that brings him up in their political rhetoric. It's also quite interesting that neither the bicentenary of Austerlitz nor the Code Civil were celebrated.
Psssh, do you know how much money the French put in their media? About half the shit they consume is domestically produced, which is much better than the most of Europe. And still they downright refuse to instill pride or patriotism.
Most people, in France and outside, don't really know about Napoleon
If they knew most of his conquest were in self-defense in wars started against him and how he improved the countries he conquered, they wouldnt "hate" him
But that period is rarely stupied and mostly summed up as "Dude trying to conquer the world lmao"
>And yet it's only the far right that brings him up in their political rhetoric.
Because there are more important things to bring up ? The fact that they don't circlejerk over historical figures don't mean they hate them.
Again this isn't about hating Napoleon specifically, it's about hating France. Everything else positive about French history gets the same treatment.
You can variously apportion blame for 25 years of warfare following the French revolution of 1789,But Bonaparte’s genius for war and, increasingly, his addiction to it was a major contributory factor.
5 million Europeans died including at least a million Frenchmen. France’s demographic profile has never recovered: twice the size of Britain, but roughly the same population today
That has nothing to do with war deaths, it's about birth rates.
France's birth rates are in step with the rest of Europe. So the losses have to come from somewhere.
Yeah, today, but they were way lower in the XIX Century.
But that's wrong dumbass. French birthrates dropped to 2 children/woman and below while England and Germany were still breeding 10 children/woman.
why were the french so averse to fucking and making babbies?
If it really was the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars responsible for France's decline, we should've seen a massive dip at the start of this chart, comparable to the dip Irish demographics saw during the famine. But we don't.
A mystery that's not understood even today. Just like how today the French are pretty much the only Europeans having babies. Maybe they're just ahead of the demographic curve compared to the rest of Europe?
What an unbiased opinion!
>Germany was certainly not crippled by WW1. Its territory was left completely untouched by the war and not even invaded, while the industrial heartland of France and Belgium had been completely destroyed. Germany came out of WW1 in a much stronger relative position than it entered i
It lost what...arround 1/3 of its territory containing valuable ressources . Veeky Forums is so fucking incredibly biased and normative. The narrative must stand in every aspect, I get it.
>It lost what...arround 1/3 of its territory containing valuable ressources
It lost about 10% of its territory and no, they didn't contain valuable resources except some coal in Schlesien which Germany had a fuckton of anyway.
>Veeky Forums is so fucking incredibly biased and normative
You are just straight up ignorant and when people say things that disrupt your fantasy you scream bias. Why? We are not talking about matters of opinion.
>Veeky Forums is so fucking incredibly biased and normative.
Waaah history doesn't agree to my special snowflake view of history!!!
Everyone else must be wrong!
>And Hitler simply stopped paying altogether.
That's not correct. The reparations were postponed and cancelled before Hitler took over.
The only comparison between the two is that they were both silly enough to invade Russia in the winter. Thats it.
Hahahaha
Seriously when will this meme die? None of them invaded in winter. The invasion dragged on till winter. There's a huge difference.
It's the truth, if you can't take Stalingrad in a matter of months, it's time to pack up and leave because you'd have exhausted too many resources.
-> /pol/
Abruti.
>Hitler
move the mobile groups, dive the stukas , gas up the planes, secure run ways, open shipping lanes, u-boat the rivers, hunt the merchant marine vessels, pester the western seaboard, open your baltic port, capture the suez, control indian sub contienent, secure the oil fields, capture the factories, make the rail-roads, mine the metal, work in the factories, coordinate the propaganda, write the books, write the speeches, speak the speeches, visit the countries, map out the yearly budget, approve the governmental things, kill the jews, kill the polls, kill russians, kill communists, support the catholics (thank you) preserve the vatican and rome from destruction for the sake of it, battle on the beach heads, battle in the snow, head all the rallies, hitler all the youth, pose for all the pictures, command all the body guards, SS inventions when youre not busy, rocket ships, rocket bombs, develop the atom bomb and splitting the atom, develop national car company, battle the french, conqor the french, battle the english, blitz the english, smack the americans ( all the west back up, at once) argue with rommel, argue with stalin, give more speeches, fight house to house, move the guys, move the tanks, move the trucks, find more gas, find more gas, defend berlin, sail to argentina, stalin testifies im alive to league of nations court. 1933-1945