Christianity owes more to Greek mystery religions than Judaism in terms of its theological concepts

>Christianity owes more to Greek mystery religions than Judaism in terms of its theological concepts.


Agree or disagree, and why?

Disagree, its core is the absolute division between good and evil and the end times scenario, which are two themes that were specifically developed in the Middle East

Where is the evidence for these greek mystery religions

If you stick to Catholicism/Orthodoxy, yes.

But if you go protestant, you subscribe yourself to the full desertnigger origins of Christianity.

Don't feel like typing a lot but no I disagree but both are fundementally important

I don't entirely agree. If you said 'owes more to Greek and Roman philosophy and mysticism' then I'd agree, as long as we're talking about Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Middle-eastern religion actually owes more to perennial Christian ideas brought from the north pole by aryan invaders to the middle east tbqhwy

This. Orthodoxy and Catholicism are better than primitive Christianity in that they fully incorporate Greek philosophy and, in the case of orthodoxy, Neoplatonic practices of theoria and henosis.

I just wish they had removed the Old Testament from the canon and never written down the gospel or at least edited the more anarchic, universalist and untermenschlich parts. Then it would be have been truly interesting, specially if they had let Jesus serve as more of an inspirational and exemplary figure, like Hercules, without insisting in a literal and historical interpretation of the gospels.

It's all about the LOGOS. That "word" justifies the Trinity. John 1:1 has been the great usurper of the true teachings of Jesus, that he was just a dude trying to reform Judaism. Damn Greeks. And that Paul guy. Just golly.

Its the exact opposite of hellenism, that's why you fucktards need to define your terms otherwise it turns into a circle jerk where every mentions "neo-platonism" alongside random head cannon with no one establishing what hellenism is and what elements they are seeing of it

>fully incorporate Greek philosophy
While in Paul we still find traces of anti-intellectualism and distrust directed against the "wisdom of the Greeks", typical of resentful simpletons -- an intellectual expression of slave morality --, as soons as the first philosophically-minded Greeks and educated Romans converted there began a rectification and purification of Christianity, and its more Judaic, slave-moralistic, vengeful, resentful, and anti-cosmic aspects, precipitated as it wore to the bottom of the solution, letting its more perennial, Greek-mysteric (yea, Aryan) and philosophic aspects rise to the surface in all its purity and brilliance, culminating in high-medieval Christianity. Now this was a fully matured Indo-European, no longer Semitic, religion, with its hierarchical structure and division of society in three castes (like Plato's Republic and Hindu varnas): priests, warriors and peasants/merchants (with only the fourth Hindu varna of non-Aryan slaves missing. See Indo-European trifunctional hypothesis), and remained like until the rise of Protestantism, that is, the politico-religious expression of the third caste. But I digress. Yeah, Greek mystery religions. In the Middle Ages there were even Christian mystery plays, and Christian sacraments are sometimes called mysteries.

It owes more to Greek philosophy. You can easily see how much of an impact it had when you compare the two testaments. The myriad of problems and arguments in the early century before the 27 books of the New Testament were recognized as canon were resolved using terms and notions, taken from the philosophers.

Agree. Christianity only borrows surface-level elements of Judaism: the rest of it is undeniably Greek in nature, particularly from mystery religions that were vogue at the time.

The entire concept of a suffering deity, of a deity whose suffering and death 'redeems' the world; the idea of followers mystically sharing in this deity's suffering, the strong emphasis on forgiveness of sins and salvation through belief, and of reaching a pleasant/'good' afterlife by performing proper rites and/or subscribing to a certain deity - these are all undeniably elements borrowed from Greek mystery religions and neo-Platonism! The Orphic rites, the Eleusinian rites, the Attic rites - these mystery cults all shared these aspects.

However, these thematic elements are completely alien to Jewish theology, hence why the Jews themselves rejected (and still do) Christianity; there is no 'continuity' between the New or Old, save whatever convoluted excuses Christians use to attempt to reconcile the two.

I've said it before. Christianity is not a Semitic religion, like certain Paganfriends like to claim. It's a Hellenistic religion with Asiatic colourings for the purposes of exoticism and validation from antiquity (old is gold), as was fashionable at the time.

There's some great thinking in this thread but you can't escape the fact that the entire thing is based on a covenant between a Hebrew god with the Hebrew people.

Yes it was hellenised but it's basis is still entirely Jewish.

Which God is worshipped? Which people or culture does that God emerge from? Who are the players and prophets in the stories?

The Jewish god, the Jewish people, and Jews.

No /pol here btw, I just said 'jew' a lot so I wanna clarify that I'm not a nazi and I think Judaism, Christianity and Hellenic culture are all super cool. Just being objective.

I WISH there was a surviving Hellenic religion.

>Disagree

>Why:
To my eyes the early mystical "Gnostic" materials owe way more to the Hekhalot tradition of Hebrew Mysticism. For example, compare the text of Pistis Sophia with Hekhalot Rabbati, then compare it with the late Neoplatonic materials. It should painfully obvious which resemble each other and which do not.

That's not to say the influence of various Greek mystery cults wasn't important to early Christian proliferation, or that it didn't even perhaps become a nearly dominant component (Greek mystery cults dominate more 'ritual magick' from the Renaissance), simply that the origins of early Christian mysticism would be more familiar to a renunciatory Hebrew mystic than your average Eleusinian.

You do realize that Palace Literature hugely post-dates Early Christianity, right?

I'd say most influence is from German paganism.

>Christmas, Easter, etc were all originally pagan feasts
>European angels are just valkyries

The Old Testament is literally the Holy Book of for the true Jews, the Torah.

Christianity was a result of Judaism.

The amount of retardation and ignorance in this thread is astonishing.

More like Pagan influence on Christianity.

That's all bullshit senpai.

Which is why Christians deliver in an indivisible non-material God, who principally concerns himself with one tribe on earth, expressed through a series of ritual laws which are in fact do-able, because there's no clear divide between your actions and your true inner self.


Oh wait.......

>The Hekhalot literature is a genre of Jewish esoteric and revelatory texts produced some time between late antiquity – some believe from Talmudic times or earlier – to the early Middle Ages
Latest we have is ca. 800 AD, and at some point it becomes hard to distinguish between the middle Hekhalot material from the early Merkavah material. Even then it's unclear, some folks attribute the later Hekhalot materials to Merkavah proper, extending the latter date out to 1000 CE though it's rather clear in the texts Merkavah was dead by the time the last of the Hekhlaot materials were produced.

Remember, 300-100 BCE appears to be a confluence point for these ideas as the Apocalyptic material waned and contemplation waxed.

If you give me a textflow with dates more precise than a hundred years in any direction and I'll be glad to revise my opinion.

Don’t forget abouth hindu influence too!

They're not doable. That's the entire point.

God gave Man His Law to show man that man cannot abide by God's Law; that following the devil's advice to know good and evil, do good and avoid evil and thus be like God, is a lie.

A distinctly non-Jewish reading of Deuteronomy you've got there.

Are you aware the Gemarah contains a list of people they consider to have kept "God's law" perfectly?

>There are fedora trippers who believe this to be true.

Jesus' name in original Aramaic is Yeshua.

>I think Judaism, Christianity and Hellenic culture are all super cool.

They're all awful.

Not in thelogical concepts, more like in external appeal to the masses. Keep in mind christianity had to compete with those religions and ended up adopting ceremonial stuff from them.
Also, mithraism is iranian not greek.

We don't know what went on in Greek mystery religions, so we will never know.

via the Reinassance they had a big influence on arts, specially stage arts

I wouldn't say that, for instance it seems from early sources that Christians may have been familiar with some forms of Jewish mysticism.

But in terms of organization, both in terms of the mysteries and physical organization, the early church drew a lot from contemporary mystery religions

Not true at all do christtards even know anything that's not in the bible? We have a small amount of writings, artworks and references to a small number of the mysteries. There's more evidence for them than jesus

There's tens of thousands of New Testament manuscripts that exist.

How many manuscripts are there for your Greek mysteries?

iirc, there's 7 for Plato.

The bible is not proof of Jesus. There is no extant physical record about him or his sayings. Everything pops up many years later. Try again faggot

You keep asking for proofs as though we are conducting some sort of mathematical exercise.

Do you understand that history does not provide "proofs"?

History does provide proofs though, archaeological etc. We've dug up mystery churches, artwork etc. There is nothing from the time of Jesus just when they finally forced his meme years later

>durrr the bible proves Jesus is real cuz it say so

Fucking retard

I'm an atheist and this shit is way too cringy for me.

retard

You do realize The Book of Romans is considered to be historical documents by scholarly historians, right?

Would it surprise you to know that Jesus was an oriental Jew who lived in the Middle East?

U WOT M8

>literally post someone who minted Sol Invictus coins alongside Jeeeesus coins