What are the biggest lessons modern warfare has learnt from the Wehrmacht?

what are the biggest lessons modern warfare has learnt from the Wehrmacht?

Dont bother with specialised tanks.
Infantry structured around a machine gun isn't needed.
Fanatical indoctrination can't replace good tactics and training.

Remember to concentrate force and act quickly so you can break through enemy lines.

Don't let people who hate you build up their military.

Select fire rifles in intermediate cartridges are pretty cool.

Belt fed, man portable machine guns are pretty cool.

Intercontinental ballistic missiles are extremely cool. So are jet fighters.

fixed fortifications are shit

Supply lines are extremely important, even in a zerg offensive

Reliability is very important

Air and naval superiority are worth a shitload

Most importantly, the ridgeway lesson: play around your weaker divisions, and be able to launch counter offensives

All very subject to paradigm shifts, even as early as the Vietnam war. War evolved extremely fast in the 20th century.

>Air and naval superiority are worth a shitload
yeah because Saddam won

>Infantry structured around a machine gun isn't needed

Lol Wut? Every time the Americans or soviets attacked an mg post they got slaughtered

He sure as hell didnt have either of those in his later wars against the u.s., and the air force he had vs iran was not b52 tier.

??? Are you fucking retarded?

I don't think you know what "shitload" means in colloquial American English.

"a lot"

Not really.

Americans always had the artillery.

If they came up against a static defense, air, artillery, or armor would usually come by to fuck it senseless.

>armor

Armor was always raped by anti-tank weapons without infantry already having cleared them out.

>Soviets had air support and artillery

When they didn't, a German infantry squad would kill hundreds of them.

That's more of the French. The Siegfried line held off the Americans for over a month.

Supply lines are everything

Don't fight the largest industrial nations on Earth with a military dependent on horses.

Don't build your military with equipment only intended to be used in the summer.

>Armor was always raped by anti-tank weapons without infantry already having cleared them out

Which is why you attack with infantry and armor at once, not separately. This is 1917 level shit.

>Soviets had air support and artillery

Well, they did, but their fire support system was shit. Which is why I'm talking about the Americans.

Most Soviets artillery was still WW1 tier.

Mg42 is a meme

t. Lindybeige

Not him, but on a purely mechanical level, measuring things like rate of fire, accuracy, and explosive delivery, Soviet artillery was often better on a per piece basis than the German stuff.

Now, their CCC was awful, and it turns out that delivering half the volume of shells to where it's really needed counts for more than delivering twice as much all over the place, but the Soviet artillery was pretty much just better than German kit.

first post nailed it
>specialised tanks.
Weaponized dick measuring with no account for cost-effectiveness. Not to mention a logistics nightmare.
>Infantry structured around a machine gun isn't needed.
Machine guns are better at suppressive fire than at actually causing casualties
>Fanatical indoctrination can't replace good tactics and training.
Yup. All that fanatical indoctrination does is make soldiers who are crueler to the civilian populations they conquer.

If your tank doesn't have sloped armor it's fucked

Don't wage large, long term mobile wars with horses as your main line for supply movements.

Mission Based Tactics is fucking brilliant concept if your High Command isn't hindered by civilians.

>Fanatical indoctrination

Wrong service. You're thinking Waffen-SS. Please, before I get shit from some slaviboo, I'm not saying the Heer's hands were clean, but until July 20th, 1944, the Wehrmacht as a whole did what they could to keep a line between the party and the army.

supply lines are important

"I swear to God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."

Wehrmacht crimes are perfect examples of German autism during war. It was the mindset of Germans of the time that mercy and compassion were luxuries during war. This has been the case in pretty much all conflicts involving the German States. It was almost tradition to the German Army until the formulation of the Bundswehr.

Idiot

>be mid 1930's officer in the Reichswehr
>Here comes a scrappy little Austrian
>"Hey, I'm going to start up a massive rearmaments campign, you down?"
>Fuckyeah.png
>"Oh, one thing,I'm going to need you to take an oath so you won't betray me."
>"Sure whatever, build my army, arm us ffs."

In hindsight it seems pretty clear, but the old guard of the Reichwehr thought it would be them using the Nazi party. They didn't see what the oath was going to do until the killing fields were presented and German military autism demanded that they stay by the oath no matter how horrifying it may have been.

an ass ton
comprende?

Get better Allies

Never Trust Austrians.

don't fight without air support

>use Osterreich and Frankenreich as scapegoat to form Deutsches Reich

>Osterreich and Frankenreich fuck Deutschland over

Sounds about fair

Not true at all. The Germans had to develop new tactics against both the Soviets and Allies because their carefully laid MG bunkers would be utterly annihilated by mortar or artillery fire within minutes of revealing themselves.
MG fire is useful for suppression to lock down an enemy, what we learned in WW2 is that artillery kills suppressed or immobile targets, small arms just lock them down.

...

never invade russia in the winter

>July is Winter LOL

You are complete fucking idiot. I don't care if it's a joke or not.

>June, not July.

>You are a*

Shit, your stupidity was contagious.

Italians are incompetent and a liability.

Don't be retards and fight UK, US, and Russia simultaneously.

Of course WW1 also taught that, but Nazi's were too stupid to learn the lesson the first time

Operation Barbarossa started in the 22nd if June. That's summer in the northern hemisphere.
Fucking retards

Nationalize all of the industries in time of war. Seriously it took until 1943 and Goebbels "Total war" speech for stuff like the cosmetics industry to close down and focus on the war effort.

how the fuck did Saddam have air and naval superiority?

1. Combined arms are key.

2. Air superiority is key

3. Logistics are king

4. Spearheads and concentrated advances are great for quick initial gains, but be prepared for drawn out front-wide fighting afterwards.

5. Lower echelon fire support is what truly decides infantry engagements.

Germany defeated Russia in WW1 and almost won in the West in 1914 and 1918

The atlantic wall was a total waste

I wouldn't say it was a total waste. Part of the reason why the A wall fell was due to allied espionage and German command expecting the attack to be somewhere else besides Normandy. It wasn't so much the fault of the fortifications that overlord succeeded and more so lack of preparation on the Germans part. I think that there was like one German soldier for every ten Americans at the landings.

Don't be german.

Machine guns cause far more casualties than rifles, even today.

Spread tanks around in infantry divisions.
Use fireteam-based tactics rather than focusing your squads around a GPMG.
Air support should be centrally directed.
Commerce raiding is useless.

>Machine guns cause far more casualties than rifles

Proof?

German infantry accounted for about 25% of the Wehrmacht's casualties caused. Meanwhile, US infantry accounted for about 35%.

>tfw you will never be a panzer II commander

What were the other 75% and 65% respectively? I'm genuinely curious.

>Spread tanks around in infantry divisions.
Thats what the french and russians did in 1941...

>Commerce raiding is useless.
Keeping many warships at sea protecting against one commerce raided is prohibitively expensive

>infantry
German squads were focuses around their mg to the point of obsession, expecting it to account for the majority of killing.

You'd have to ask around on /k/, I didn't save that shit.

That said, machine guns still essentially do not matter. Explosives do the real killing across the board.

As far as small arms go, MGs are simply going to be shooting more, and often out to a greater effective range-meaning it's more likely they'll be hitting something. This becomes even more true when you factor in the number of m249s a US platoon has, as well as any vehicle mounted m2s. That, and possible m249s.

i never knew picrelated was in WW1

fucking Battlefield 1

Who cares when artillery is king.

Artillery

That's why Germans produced ammunition for their captured pieces.

In WW1 maybe.

Platoon mortars or any other support artillery tended to turn MG posts into burning remains of MG posts, and that's without armoured support.

Of course in hypothetical situation where American/Soviet infantry squad charges frontally on MG post they would get slaughtered but... seriously man it's not WW1, and even in WW1 such situations weren't the norm.

>Thats what the french and russians did in 1941...
And the Americans in 1944, and every worthwhile army in the world since WW2.
Massing all your armor into a handful of panzer divisions is a poverty strategy. Infantry divisions can't take initiative without attached armor.

>Keeping many warships at sea protecting against one commerce raided is prohibitively expensive
Except commerce raiding has never shut down traffic. So much for "prohibitive" right? Meanwhile having many warships at sea *does* shut down enemy shipping completely, and yes, that is in fact prohibitively expensive.

Infantry just move the forward observer to the next hill.

>this meme

Torsion bars and interleaved wheels suck.

>Germany defeated Russia in WW1 and almost won in the West in 1914 and 1918
They came back on their pre-Somme positions in 1918. After Somme they retreated on so called Hindemburg line to free the troops needed for campaign on the east. The Spring Offensive was kind of a meme, it sort of worked initially but you could see that Germans didn't knew what to do after initial success and instead of pushing to the sea to get BEF and Belgian Army cut out of supply lines etc. they kind of spread out their advance trying to capture Paris and said pre-1916 retreat positions.

The purpose of the Atlantic wall was a delaying action until Rommel and Von Rundstedt could bring in armored divisions and sweep the Allied invasion force back into the sea.

Hitler, being a retard decided against this because he was convinced the real invasion would occur in Pas De Calais and was holding off until then, which never happened. By the time Hitler realized it was a ruse, the Western Allies had a firm foothold, Bagration had smashed apart east and Gerd von Rundstedt probably the most stoic man in the Wehrmacht literally screamed "Make peace, you idiots." when asked what to do.

To be fair getting armoured divisions close to the coasts/close to the coasts was a suicide for them too.

There was a story of battleship destroying whole platoon of tanks with single shell. I recall seeing a map of "kill zone" along the coasts, that is the area in range of allied naval artillery.

The Germans did nail tank tactics. Give every tank a radio so they work together and have the crew spread out so the commander doesn't have to multitask. Also the Panzer III was the first tank to have a turret basket that moved with the crew.

I meant tactically, as we're discussing calling in arty to knock out a machine gun.

The Soviets were limited to prepared, observed fires. Impromptu fire required calculations beyond that of the average Soviet artilleryman. The lack of any decent signals equipment for much of the war didn't help. Well-planned initial fires and an immediate drop in effectiveness as troops move forward and the situation became fluid is directly out of WW1 and would be the Red Army's M.O. for almost the entire war.

Unless the machine gun could be fired on directly by artillery, it ain't happening.

Compare this to the western allies who pre-computed firing data with numerous variations, creating separate calibrated tape measures for each and every one. The average time between the initial fire support call and outgoing shells averaged 3 minutes. If they had detailed maps their indirect fire was nearly as accurate as direct fire, not to mention the added benefit and lethality of time-on-target.

>That's why Germans produced ammunition for their captured pieces.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with over 1/3rd of all German artillery production going to anti-aircraft defenses because of allied bombing.

anyone have that pic where it is describing all of the nations military tactics in ww2, but when it gets to the US it says that they just blow shit up?

>I'm sure that has nothing to do with over 1/3rd of all German artillery production going to anti-aircraft defenses because of allied bombing.
Nah, Germans lacked good artillery. Things like Germans 150mm howitzers simply lacked range and accuracy in comparison to ML-20 which on top of it could double as a field gun because it was constructed in this way.

Not to mention things like M1931 B-4 etc. which were heavier than any non-rail artillery Germans had while still being reasonably mobile.

In fact they've started to use them when the only kind of bombing was scarce British night raid.

...

Where did the mythos of the 88 come from?

>in my headcanon soviets couldn't use artillery or mortar to kill mg positions because they couldn't tape measures
You need to stop posting or something jesus christ.

From memes. Had Germans have decent amount of 7,5cm PaK's early war and you would never hear about 88 mythos.

Oh, btw. Germans also adopted Soviet 76,2mm field gun and used it as AT gun with lots of success(they ended up being loaded on some TD or something).

Soviet artillery was really, really solid.

Impromptu fire was beyond the ability of the Soviets for much of the war.

The American tape system meant they almost always had precalculated fire date for almost all conditions immediately available to them.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

You need to stop thinking of history as a creative writing exercise.

>American system could calculate a firing solution
>therefore no one else could
>even though they did
seriously kys m8.

Why do you need your hand held like this? That Soviet artillery was behind the curve tactically isn't ground breaking information. Read a book.

The war was clearly the Jewish peoples fault.

But the Maginot line worked exactly as intended, the Germans had to go around it and didn't push through.

Only because Market Garden failed.

>Thats what the french and russians did in 1941...
>the french
>1941

He's right though.

Soviet slagged behind Americans on the use of artillery. They excelled at massive pre-planned barrages, but that's all.

Dont bomb Pearl Harbor, thinking that Germany will have your back

If the two world wars taught us anything it's that old whole outright annexation of countries for any extended period of time is effectively impossible due to the rifle and the ease of guerilla warfare.

>whole platoon of tanks with single shell

How absurd, perhaps if they were all parked right next to each other and it was a direct hit

Tibet

I like how nobody ever notices how the Austrian color scheme is inverted in the first panel.

>Annexation
>Not reclamation of a breakaway province.
Kek.

Funny

Except a whole lot of countries were annexed for years without any notable guerilla activity beyond passing off information and housing enemy soldiers.

Being worse at something = being completely incapable of something?
Retards.

50 cents have been deposited in your account.

When Italy says they are not yet prepared for war, believe them, specially when their leader is about 20-30 IQ points above yours.

If you don't want to get raped and they look like they are going to rape your mouth your move shouldn't be to find a way to make them rape your asshole.

No it's more like defending your mouth and your ass, but they end up somehow fucking your ear

Are you literally autistic?

>It's another Clean Wehrmacht episode