Why is Turkey so triggered by the existence of Kurds?

In Iraq most don't Care about the Kurds
Heck even Saddam only Gassed them nkt out of hatred for them but because there was a war going on

I want them to have their own country so we can get over with this drama. If ran the country, I'd make a referendum for each city and let them decide their own fate once and for all. Though it'd never happen because Turks are butthurt about their empire was torn into pieces 100 years ago, and since then they're paranoid that their country would get torn apart again.

If the current demographics keep up, Kurds will outnumber Turks in Turkey by the end of the 21st century.

You must never lose an opportunity to remind the Turk of this fact.

Also, the politics of Kurds are very different depending on which country you're in.

>If the current demographics keep up

Alas, they never do.

B-but muh 3 state partition Iraqi Kurdistan

>most don't care about kurds

Is this true on an institutional level? It was my understanding most iraqi sunnis were breddy much on board with isis.

Kurds keep chimping out and beating each other here and all of them are welfare leeching potential criminials

If Kurds and Persians are cousins then Turks are extended family.

No amount of steppe worship will erase their true origins.

This desu

turks are actually perso-greko-mongo-arabo-slavo-albanians

Turks are a mixture of every ethnicity that ever lived in Anatolia. The only thing that still allows them to identify as special snowflake is their language. It's kinda similar with Hungarians who still speak their Uralic gibberish but have lost their true origins long ago.

Turanism is a meme.

>Do Iranians react the same way to Kurds?
Yes

>Turanism is a meme.
It truly boggles my mind when Anatolian Turks try to claim random steppe polities as their ancestors.

...

>Expecting nomadic people to stay "racially pure" or have similar phenotypes.

Doesn't even make sense, the bonds of those Central Asian people(except Turkish ""Turks"") are their similar cultures and languages.

That's my point. All these 'gotcha turks are not turks' people are retarded

The truth nobody wants to say is, no leaders of states actually believe in self-determination.

Ask any Westerner what they'd think if a part of their country wanted to leave.

Off-topic: do phenotypes generally coincide with genotype?

For example, Armenians and Iranians apparently have very distinct genotypes, but are physically almost indistinguishable

>Implying Turkmen are representative of ancient Turks
Gokturks and Ugyhurs look nothing like Anatolian Turks.

nobody cares about ancient turks though

> Armenians and Iranians apparently have very distinct genotypes

Iranians are as mixed as Turkish people, so you can see various types of phenotypes among Iranians. Some of them may look like Armenians.

>Strawman101

Your image and post got nothing to do with my point.

>Do they have similar languages?
Yes.
>Do they have similar cultures?
Yes.

You are still posting phenotypes and my claim was they are irrelevant since their bonds aren't based on genetics. I think Turkish people got different culture from those Turkic people at Central Asia, but still Turan idea/dream of those Central Asian people are pretty much valid and reasonable. I'm saying this as a non Turkic person that got nothing to do with Turks or Turkic people.

Anyway I'm off to sleep.

>Armenians and Iranians have distinct genotypes

Not really, Armenians cluster with Iranians, Turks, Kurds, and other South Caucasians.

How reliable is this image? Any info on sample size? I don't want to save unreliable charts on my PC.

Tell that to Assyrians, the only reason Kurdish atrocities and displacements against Christians are overlooked is because they are the new sweetheart of the west.

Just as west overlooked at the Turkish atrocities but suddenly began to talk shit about them when erdogan dared to disobey their orders

The point is that Turkish culture and Turkic cultures are not even similar.
One is sedentary, one is nomadic. One is agrarian, the other pastoral.
One was historically united under a form of government continued from the Greek times, the other was historically disunited under various rulers.

TL;DR the 'bonds of culture and language' are weak as fuck.

>I believe this so everyone else secretly does

Good ane.

>No amount of steppe worship will erase their true origins.
Except their language.

And the fact that the Meme Empire of theirs was built by descendants of Steppenigs and whose identity their nationalists build on.

It's the retards who focus on race one must worry about.
>Hey you're genetically greek! You cant be Turk.
>Let us ignore that long lasting Muslim Empire built by those Turkish Speaking Horsefuckers

>Kurds require Christians to give up their weapons in exchange for defense
>Christians give them weapons
>Kurds run away as a bunch of bitches, leaving Christians without any sort of defense
Fuck Kurds

>And the fact that the Meme Empire of theirs was built by descendants of Steppenigs and whose identity their nationalists build on.
Wrong.jpg.

The rulers of the Ottoman Empire saw themselves as...Ottoman. As refined Muslim Gentlemen.

For them "Turk" means "Filthy Central Asian Horse Nomad."

It is a recurring theme among some other Turkic Founded Empires. Check out Mughals
>Turks? Mongols? Fuck no, I am a good, Muslim noble who dabbles in what I consider high culture (Islamic Persia)
>And stop calling me Mongol, filthy Poo Hindustanis.

You keep saying 'built'. They didn't 'build' an empire, they conquered one and then ran its institutions fairly similarly to how they had previously been run.
Hence why its a meme empire in the first place.

>Why is Turkey so triggered by the existence of Kurds?

Not sure, but how do they feel about whey?

>Being autistic with words.
Also the Ottoman Empire was fairly unique among Steppenig founded Empires for not collapsing overnight like typical Nomadic-Founded Empires.

WE WUZ

>difference between creating institutions and taking over their function is autism

Fuck off to /pol/, memer, you clearly aren't suited to this subject.
It didn't collapse because it was basically the empire that had been there beforehand run by a new Muslim dynasty, they said that themselves.

Who the fuck came up with Turkic mythology?

Jesus fucking Christ

>Germans hate Turks

Good meme.

Why are Europeans so triggered by refugees?? o muslim immigrants???

1. there were around 1-2 million kurdsi n 1923
2. there are 15+ million kurds in turkey today
3. they keep breeding and breeding, taking over more land
4. they tend to be terrorists blowing shit up
5. honor killing
6. fgm
7. incest
8. child marriage
9. tribal society

do i need to go on?

>Also the Ottoman Empire was fairly unique among Steppenig founded Empires for not collapsing overnight like typical Nomadic-Founded Empires.

What the Byzantine Empire? Whose writ ran only in Constantinople, bits of Greece and Anatolia? I dont recall this empire having the jurisdictions of the levant (lost to other Muslims), the Balkans (lost to various Europeans). Much less Egypt or North Africa.

If anything, the Ottoman Empire is made out of multiple kingdoms, empires, and tiny principalities.

After WW1, Ataturk took Woodrow Wilson's reccomendation for homogenous nation-states to heart and said, "ok, EVERYONE in Turkey is a Turk now. This ran directly in opposition to the existence of Coptic Greeks and Armenians, who, as we know, were dealt with through forced removal and outright extermination (which the Kurds helped with; in fact much of Turkish Kurdistan is the old Armenian area of Turkey). The Kurds, while at least Muslim, speak a Persian language, which also ran counter to this. So Ataturk called them "mountain Turks" and banned Kurdish from being spoken, even in private.

Add to that the fact that during the cold war the main Kurdish independence group, the PKK was communist, and it all starts to make sense.

>So Ataturk called them "mountain Turks"
source?
>and banned Kurdish from being spoken, even in private.
everything non turkish was not allowed

>mfw his adopted half armenian half turkish daughter was the first female combat pilot and she bombed kurds

...

Didn't some reporter get assassinated for bringing the fact that she was an Armenian orphan to light?

thats not proof that ataturk called him that

Ohhhh sorry, I should've been more specific. No clue if he personally referred to them as that, although I can only assume considering his government did.

It happened way way after he said she might be Armenian. Probably Grey Wolves militas decide to chimp out for some reason.

I hate how Anatolia across history had such a rich diversity of interesting cultures, and they were replaced by one single one that has become horribly backwards and often genocidal.

Even if it did kurds are the poorest people in turkey they won't have any real political power.

Blame Islam honestly. Just look at Egypt.

Ataturk came in power after the genocides so fuck off.

>He wasn't a huge political and military figure or anything

Was genocide a recurring thing in the Ottoman empire? I'm only really aware of the genocides of the early 20th century.

Given that Kurds make up a substantial group of western-backed fighters in modern syria and iraq, after ISIS go away will they have enough claim to form a state?

The term genocide was a 20th century thing, so I don't think we can call massacres before 20th century as genocides. Else we'd have a huge war crime list for nearly all of relevant empires.

Their state would be in civil war 24/7 because of their tribe leaders/landlords would want to have absolute power. Not even mentioning KRG and PKK/YPG hate each other and their political party HDP trying to be the new biggest player while standing in middle of those 2 groups. At least one of those 3 groups must lose to give Kurdistan some stability and It won't happen without spilling shittons of blood. Oh I forgot Wahabbist Kurdish Hezbollah which is pretty relevant too.

And they would be landlocked and surrounded by enemies. Politically and Georgraphically It would be really hard for them to survive and sustain.

Nope.jpg.

Ottomans love massacres, but only as tools for reprisals, not to wipe out a whole race.

Which is genocide.

The Fatamids and Ayyubids/Mamluks and Muhammad Ali Pasha were badass desu

Many Like Barzani understand this and want peaceful Relations with Turkey and Baghdad
Its mainly the Communists who have a populist attitude to foriegn relations who would destroy Kurdistans economy

I don't know what will happen next m8 but I hope they fix their shit. I find Barzani side the smartest and the most realistic one of all of them.

Why the fuck do the kurd think Zaza are kurdish? We are not

kurds are we wuz everyone people

I'm a Turk and depends on the kurd.

Kurds are literally our mexicans. With the exception that 5% of those 10 million kurds are commie militants.

I'm a Turkish citizen of Creten descent, I'm not a big fan of Turks, but Kurds are way shit tier to be compared to Mexicans in America. Mexicans do not blow themselves in bus stops.

it's like Romus and Remus except with 60% more furfaggotry

When does it stop being a massacre and become a genocide anyway? Is it the numbers or a percentage of the total number, or is it about the intentions of the people? Can we call fuckups like holomodor genocide?

Intentions. Like the removal/extermination of the People.

Which was never really a thing by the Ottoman Empire, but of the Turkish Nationalists. Whenever Ottomans massacred you, it was because you rebelled and needed to be bonked in the head hard.

Not an apologist, it's still a shit thing to do to people.

>Not an apologist, it's still a shit thing to do to people.

Well when you look at it from todays point of view yes but back in the day shit was normal and maybe even humane, even the old testament has shit that says "genocide the ill makers" or something like that.

i know right Disgusting turks
Not supporting barbarian communists

That means There's quite a lot of furfaggotry within the story of Romus and Remus if they got about 62,5% as much furfaggtrory as a story involving the creation of a whole race of otherkin

I find the war crime "genocide" similar to agreements that a nation signs after losing a war. That's what happened at Nazi Germany, It's true that they killed shittons of Jews, but it was the first time that those slaughters named as genocide since victor prepares the "agreement" and loser has to sign it. Americans won't like it but we could call Amerindian slaughters as genocide too, but since Americans are politcally, economically, militarily too strong that can do whatever they want. I may seem like a butthurt anti American, but I'm not. I know winner sets the rules and I understand it.

Whether it's a genocide or not, Turkey would be already giving reperations or even clay to Armenia if they were weaker. In reality no any politicians care about people that got slaughtered or something.

Well the armenians are trying their damn hardest to make it a genocide, just last week or so germany passed a law that accepted the armenian genocide, fucking germany with their 2+ million turks.

Keep in mind, a lot of that is CLAIMED territory, where Kurds are not always the majority population. I think a Kurdistan should exist, but probably not so big. Start with Iraqi and Syrian territories. Forget about Iran and Armenia giving anything up. The thing is a Kurdish state would be insta-enemies with Turkey. Probably a client state of America though.

I know, their diasporas are way more active on this matter compared to Turkish diaspora which is known for it's uselessness. Also "opressed" minorities evolve on this matters pretty quickly, see Jews.

But even the entire world recognizes it as genocide, it's still up to Turkey. The term "genocide" just became a completely political thing.

>Meanwhile Israel aka "genocide experts" doesn't even recognize it as genocide since they got huge deals with Azerbaijan.

Anyway, if Armenia wants their genocide to be recognized, they should be way stronger politically, militarily and economically. Or Turkey should be weaker. Else nothing will change for both sides.

No, you couldn't call the Amerindian slaughter genocide.

The vast majority was disease, it happened over several centuries, there was no central government and there was no systematic plan to exterminate all natives once and for all.

The Ottoman Empire on the other hand had a systematic plan on how to exterminate all Armenians living in their lands and they did it through an active effort using resources like trains, successfully killing or displacing almost all Armenians in a matter of about 3 years. That's genocide and a massacre of that scale is not possible without modern resources hence why it doesn't make sense to classify anything before the industrial revolution as genocide.

>I hate how The Americas across history had such a rich diversity of interesting cultures, and they were replaced by one single one that has become horribly backwards and often genocidal.

>Blame Christianity honestly. Just look at Peru.

The problem is that, yes "genocide" as we know it became a thing during WW2, it happened all the time in the old world. But how do you tell a Jew in 1970 that they were a victim of genocide and an Armenian in 1970 that they weren't? Is the cutoff point where that becomes unacceptable somewhere in the 1930's? It gets blurry.

Well definitely on the brown side, would be taken for a gypsy where I live, but a few slim cuties in the crowd. Not bad I guess.

Be hones, Veeky Forums. You just bring up their existence to trigger cockroaches.

Wind+sun does that to you.

>Wahabbism is Sunni
>Hezbollah is Shia
>Kurds tend not to be "Islamic" enough for Arab Sunnis

Are you just using scary sounding terms or is there an actual significant sect of Kurds that are into extremist Islam?

Not true though considering the example of American "Genocide" is the Trail of Tears, which, while I agree gets blurry genocide-wise, is the forced removal of a certain population knowing that a large amount of them will die. This is essentially the same as the forced removal of Armenians.

Well- yes. The Turks tend to be the only people in the world to get mad. To be clear, I'm not Turkish and consider it genocide, but the question remains, when did the genocide buzzer sound? We can't consider ancient stuff genocide, yes, but what year do we put the starting point?

>The vast majority was disease, it happened over several centuries, there was no central government and there was no systematic plan to exterminate all natives once and for all.

Nazis were saying kinda similar stuff when defending it. I'm not saying Amerindian slaughter is 100% genocide. But switch germany with USA, and switch Amerindians with Jews. Would it be called genocide now?

I'm not symphatetic over any parties, I'm just trying to be objective.

The intent was to actually relocate the natives
> Approximately 2,000-6,000 of the 16,543 relocated Cherokee perished along the way.

The Ottoman Empire on the other hand only used this as a fake motive.
Not only Armenians from the frontline were moved but every person that could be confirmed as Armenian. It started with the execution of intellectuals in Constantinople after all. Armenians from everywhere, not just the Russo-Ottoman border, were deported to the Syrian desert with virtually no supplies. The vast majority died. For the time, this was the most "efficient" way to come close to exterminating all Armenians. Killing more than a million people in a matter of about 3 years from all over Anatolia isn't that easy, especially when the Ottomans weren't nearly fully industrialized yet. Compare that to the trail of tears where only a fraction of the few thousand natives displaced actually died.

Hezbollah means Soldiers of Allah, so it's not a trademarked brand. It's completely different from Lebanon's Hezbollah.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Hezbollah

>is there an actual significant sect of Kurds that are into extremist Islam?
Kurds living in Turkey are more religious than Turks.

See the poll, HDP is the "leftist" Kurdish party, and even their voters are as religious as AKP voters(There are shittons of AKP voters too). And Kurdish Hezbollah got HÜDAPAR, which is irrelevant as a party but it's voters are completely(literally 100%) wahabbi terrorists that were rampaging around in 90s, very brutal and their torture methods were disgustingly bad, burying people alive, their infamous "pig bond", non stop tortures which cops even could stand watch it, for 60 fucking days non stop torture. Many of them are ISIS, Al Qaeda militants nowadays but they still got shittons of militants waiting.

Also see pic, It may give you an idea.

It's a fact that most Amerindians died from disease. Nothing to debate.

>Not only Armenians from the frontline were moved but every person that could be confirmed as Armenian.
Wrong, to this day there still is an armenian community in Istanbul. The ones in the west were left alone.

>It started with the execution of intellectuals in Constantinople after all.
they were part of rebel groups/part rebel leaders

Okay, lets say it really happened. Would America pay reperations or give any clay to Amerindians? Again, I'm not saying USA genocided Amerindians, I'm not expert on that matter. I just used an example to show the term "genocide" has become completely a political shitshow.

>relatively autonomous
>dissent isn't tolerated
That's called an autocracy, desufampai.

Kurds are shit because they are overwhelmingly Shafi