Do you want to talk about fascist Italy?

Pétain was a dickhead but the reason fascist and "ligue" movements never got far was because of the overwhelming pacifist view that all french had

Collaboration was something different

Overwhelming superiority of the German military. You'd be cozy with Hans too after you saw how they could blitzkrieg the shit out of Poland and their neighbors.

>shermans crossing the alps
*gasp*

Well this board is full of left wing pieces of shit, so probably not, shitty claims are gonna pop up like how the italians also gassed people or something.

autism

Well Mussolini was a huge lefty. Fascism is just one of the most tolerable liberal ideologies

What were the economics principles of Italian fascism like?

Yep, funn fact. SS members who were holding a Hitlers bunker at the end of battle of Berlin were all French

North Korea.

Was the Roman Empire fascist?

Read a book.

Pls tell me you are joking

Explain me why not instead of being insufferable fags.

Nope, but you can argue that every empire ever existed had some elements of fascism

he was part of the Italian socialist party.
He just went power mad abandoned his socialism in favor of ultimate power. He was a walking contradiction.

EYYY MI PAISANO A PIZZA PASTA HMMM EYY YOOOO

>fascism is liberal
oh dear god america why

It was just an autarky whenever possible
Autarky=/=communism

True because fascism is undoubtedly the most flexible/synthetic ideology

There were also certain Fascists who idolized Hitler and National Socialism and others who were passionately against it.

:::::::::::::::::^^^^^^^^^)))))))

Reasonable point except North Korea isn't communist in its current state.

the absolute madman of the 20th century

it's just a disaster tbqh

it'd be very unfair to say Italy was ever in such a state

It was fucking shit economically, industrially and militarily and the country suffered greatly for it but most people on Veeky Forums for some reason think it was the hottest shit and a testimony to the greatness of Il Fascismo.
Just goes to show the actual historical knowledge most people on here possess.

how was it bad industrially if there was near no industry previously and Mussolini managed to get one going with an autarky?

>there was near no industry previously
Italian industry was growing rapidly at the beginning of the 1900s especially with the new automobile industries. The economy took a massive hit after World War 1 and then Mussolini came along promising to protect the interests of the Industrialists but just made things worse after the crisis of 29 with his dumb Quota 90 plan. He squandered what little military resources his country had on Ethiopia and the Spanish Civil War and almost killed the country out right after the he invaded Ethiopia and got all the import sanctions put on him, before World War 2 he was relying on Germany for most important heavy industry resources and still had a thirld world shithole tier military with almost no tanks, air defense weaponry, modern ships or post WW1 fighter planes.

...

You'd be very intrigued by the "February of 1934" uprisings, where right-wing groups were strewn across the streets of Paris and were threatening the french republic with their numbers.

While it has been overstated by the left, these groupings of fascist-prone groups out in the streets of Paris should disclose how close France came to tipping into fascism (which is why I abhor the "fascism only happened in those treated unfairly by Versailles :(((" since France was very liable to it too).

There's always been speculation that the morale within the french army was very low, as there was a wide array of emotions amidst it, ranging from those who openly greeted Germans and their fascist ways, and those who hated nazis with fervor.

France was indeed a very fascist-prone country in the inter-war years, and we may deny it, but our dealings with Germany through Petain also shed light on the fact that not many of us minded being affiliated to nazi Germany.

This why I often argue that one of Hitler's poorest choice was to alienate the french with his "germanic are le superior" faggotry, when he probably would've half of France (the fascist-friendly kind mind you) volunteering in his army if he had ignited the "Frankish spirit" instead (in a "hey frenchies, remember when we were bros under Charlemagne ;)" kind of way).

5 million more french men on Barbarossa certainly wouldn't have hurt. Instead all he got was the Charlemagne SS division of Frenchies.

I like Italian Social Republic

notice the "social" in name ;)

;)

...

>le italians partisans meme

>Yuropoor tries to act superior
>Reveals himself to be a twit

Fascism is inherently liberal. It has no monarch or aristocracy. It finds itself in opposition to the church, a pillar of traditional regimes. It is inherently socialist, and Mussolini often pitched it as an alternative path to communism.

Is it "leftist" in the context of today's fucked up "everything is progressive or far right" use of the phrase? No. Is it "liberal" in the context of actual left right discourse, the opposition between the revolution and the ancien regime? Yes.

You are very smart. Your poorly drawed cartoons that have less content than an illustrated children's books are an accurate depiction of history. Specially since it fully depicts the reality of WW2 in all possible manners, angles and perspectives. Truly, these drawings are a masterpiece of history. They are very sharp arguments, and are very hard to refute. Look all those references, all those analogies and complex constructions that only someone as intelligent as user could come up with. You are a mastermind of history, someone far beyond the league of any academic or university. Your comic easily refutes any argument, and it will go down in history as one of the most important works fo this century. You should be very proud of putting this point across here, it's very intellectual indeed.

>lets criticize a political ideology based on its militaries
>lets also ignore that axis powers were facing the whole fucking world alone
>heheheh im very smart and i have a john green sticker on my laptop

...

Fascist Italy, and other fascist states,
1. Implemented the corporatist system, in which different industries were organized into "corporations" (not to be confused with the American definition of corporation), with equal representation of workers, owners, and the government. This was motivated by a desire for class collaboration, to avoid the disunification of the nation by class conflict.
2. Strove for maximum autarky. The fascists, being nationalists, desired maximum sovereignty over the economy by the nation, so that the nation would not be subject to the whims of the international market.
3. Strove for maximum employment, and attempted such through large-scale public works projects. This is because humans are naturally intended to work, so unemployment results in undesirable social unrest.
t. fascist

Couldn't you consider the fact that France's victory in WW1 was so phyrric to be why they were the most vulnerable to fascism though?

What winning power didn't experience a phyrric victory? Japan didn't, but they were already crazy. And the US had an easy victory, and they were pretty fascist prone too. Hell, they elected a president for life with an honest to god cult of personality

IT IS SAID THAT ADOLF HITLER WEPT UPON BEING INFORMED OF BENITO MUSSOLINI'S DISGRACEFUL DEATH, AND SEEING PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS DEFORMED BODY.

Italy didn't work, Germany didn't work, Spain wasn't fascist under Franco, and Mosley never had any power. Next?

he was a politician obviously

Back to /pol/ trash

>tojo
>facism

Did I say fascism was good? Did I say we should gas the Jews? No, and my opinions about those points of irrelevant to where fascism falls on the political spectrum.

So do us all a favor, and shove your "the left is all poets, the right monsters" outlook up your own ass. After doing that, you can either learn the etymology of "liberal" versus "conservative" and contribute to the conversation, or you can fuck off back to Facebook or Tumblr or wherever else appreciates your MSNBC tier understanding of political theory.

>Fascism is inherently liberal.
Fuck off Yank.

>"I can't argue against the point being made"

I've explained how it is. Go ahead and explain how it's not.

To save you some typing, something can be liberal without going full "refugees welcome"

>Dictatorship
>Single party government
>Union suppression
>Concentration camps
>Liberal

You are a very confused little boy.

We know you can't.

Wat

...

wasn't all of this part of chile - one of most liberal states as of date?

our lolberals praise Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan, Liechtenstein and Singapore as example of most liberal, free market states.

not that I defend allende, you must be pretty fucking desperate to vote second hitler into power xd. "the venus project" could have been a reality, whom do you think USaians stole internet idea from ?_?

Alessandra Mussolini, his grand-daughter, is an italian politician.
There are a lot of fascist party like casapound and forza nuova that have several offices in most of the cities.

...

>No monarch
>No aristocracy
>No power to religious institutions
>Pays lip service to unity amongst all classes

Hmm, looks like it doesn't have any right wing institutions in place.

BONUS ROUND
>concentration camps
>Implying these fall anywhere on the political spectrum
The USSR had concentration camps. Cuba has concentration camps. Britain and America have had concentration camps. North Korea and China have concentration camps.

Fascism is basically authoritarian centrism, centrist because it's all over the map depending on what issue you're talking about. And compared to any actual right wing government, centrism is

Fucking
Liberal

>elephants crossing the alps
*gasp*

Probably because he agrees, like any reasonable person would.

OVER THE ALPS PERHAPS

why does fascism fit so well with the italian language?

youtube.com/watch?v=ilXa3wX-j4M

Economically very liberal

Every other aspect it's a liberal's nightmare
Remember kids, liberal comes from the french word "freedom". If there's limited freedom it's
not liberal.

>he thinks liberalism is about the absence of specific forms of power
wew

Well, considering that you classified the right as leaving democracy and having concentration camps, it looks like sweeping generalizations are the order of the day

Fascism is deontological dynamic nihilism. The fascist says: "There are no objective or absolute truths, except for those that I WILL to be true". The confusion of so many people in regards to fascism is that they ask: "what is the doctrine?" or "what are the ethical rules that stand outside of the fascist, the rules that instruct him?". Fascism is the conclusion of existential nihilism. Fascism was a natural product of the early 20th century, as a rejection of positivism, and was birthed in late 19th century philosophy. It is modernist and dynamic, not conservative my any means.

Italian fascism rose out of Syndicalism. The belief was that, in a weak and newly united Italy, only NATIONAL Syndicalism could industrialize the country. Mussolini edited a Socialist Paper and most of the fascist thinkers were Socialist Anarcho-Syndicalists. Fascism, or "National-Syndicalism", overturned Anarcho-Syndicalism and was seen as the unavoidable "next step" ideologically. Class divided a nation and democracy divided a nation. This prompted Mussolini's words: "'Every anarchist is a baffled dictator'".

Mosley's head ideologue, Raven Thompson, published a Syndicalist rejection of Spengler in "Civilization as Divine Superman", and was a Anarcho-Syndicalist or at least a fellow traveler of communism. Mosley was a leftist-modernist, his proposed employment reforms were pure-Keynesian, and he was anti-Neoclassical (or "classical" economics as it was then known). Mosley's fascism followed much the same Anarcho-Syndicalist -> National-Syndicalist process. Watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=3NqG2lAojNQ He was a "feminist" of sorts and was in many ways a crypto-communist.

That wasn't me nor did the original poster imply that

Most people have different definitions of what the left/right are anyway so it's useless to argue about that

The point being is fascism is in complete opposition to liberalism and Mussolini explicitly states this in his manifesto

btw Thompson is on the far-right in that pic (no pun intended)

>Allende
>Economically liberal

Weren't you referring to Pinochet's economy?

I don't see how Allende was liberal at all

Are you an American confusing liberalism and leftwing?

They're not the same.

>he fell for the left/right meme
and no, liberalism is a movement originating back to the revolution that puts forward economic and social freedom
although it has vastly evolved over the centuries, it remains a movement that believes in minimal control over the people and market

you should be more concerned about the person that said fascism was liberal

best answer

>Italy didn't work
It worked fine until it was toppled by war.
>Germany didn't work
Again, it worked fine until it was toppled by war.
>Spain wasn't fascist under Franco
Do you think that "Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera" spells "Francisco Franco"?
>Mosley never had any power
So? The pic specifically says that the British government shut them down to prevent them from gaining power.

>Fascism is inherently liberal

What the fuck do you think liberalism is?

Opposition to traditional institutions

@1414102
I can see you're trying very hard but this effort is not enough for a (You)

there were many Jews in the National Fascist Party, such as Ettore Ovazza who in 1935 founded the Jewish Fascist paper La Nostra Bandiera ("Our Flag")

Ettore Ovazza was one of the 230 Italian Jews who participated in 1922 March on Rome that installed Mussolini in power. In fact, the number of Jews who signed up as fascists was disproportionately high. Ovazza started a Jewish fascist newspaper, “La Nostra Bandiera” (Our Flag) in an effort to show that the Jews were among the regime’s most loyal followers.

Ovazza’s father, Ernesto, was the leader of the Turin Jewish community

One of the Jewish financial supporters of the Fascist movement, was Toeplitz
Early on there were prominent Jewish Italian Fascists such as Aldo Finz

there had been notable Jewish Italians who had been senior Italian fascist officials

The novelist Girorgio Bassani stated that he does not remember a single Jew who was not a fascist.

Stille describes how widespread Jewish fascism was, "In Italy, Jewish fascism was a real ideological movement, a mass phenomenon, as much as that was possible in Italy’s tiny Jewish population of 47,000.

a number of Italian Jews held significant State offices and positions inside the National Fascist Party. Examples include Aldo Finzi and Giuseppe Volpi Count of Misurata. The latter served as Italy's Finance Minister 1925–1928 and Governor of Tripolitania 1921–1925

Margherita Sarfatti was Jewish and was Benito Mussolini's biographer as well as one of his mistresses.

Even under fascism, the loyalty of Italian Jews for their country did not wane. On December 18, 1935, Italian leader Benito Mussolini declared a national day of faith in which Mussolini requested the wedding rings of Italian women. On that day, every Italian synagogue celebrated the day by playing the Royal March (the Savoy hymn) and the fascist song ‘Giovinezza.’ A patriotic sermon followed, and the Jewish women relinquished their wedding rings.

The Fascist regime also helped, at the request of Vladimir Jabotinski, the establishment in 1934 of a navy officer training camp in Civitavecchia for Mandatory Palestine Jews, laying the foundations of the Israeli Navy.

The Italian colonial authorities in Ethiopia after the conquest of this African state came into contact with the Beta Israel community and greatly favoured them, enacting special laws to protect them from offences and violences routinely committed against them by Christian and Muslim Ethiopians. The regime also encouraged cultural exchanges between the Italian Jewish community and the Ethiopian Jews.

acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=300

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Italy

Fascism is in many ways a reaction to liberalism.

Do you know what fascism is? They were quite big on calling it this: Fascism is an attempt to form a third way.

But then "Third way" got stolen by people like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton to mean "Lol I'm in a left-wing party but I don't really care about the poor :^) "

It has to be remembered it was the war that *they* started, in part because it was economically necessary for Germany thanks to overinvestment in the military.

When saying "Oh, it worked fine until it was bombed into the ground" is all well and good until you remember the reason they were bombed into the ground is because they tried to bomb others into the ground first, and failed.

Who's decision was it to face the whole fucking world alone?

protip: the world didn't shoot first.

>Hmm, looks like it doesn't have any right wing institutions in place.
(In socialist terms) the exploitative classes retain ownership of the means of production and the power that goes with that.

Which is why Fascism was reasonably popular amongst those classes (as an alternative to socialism: Obviously they'd prefer neither.)

That they pay lip-service to class unity also underscores some rightist tendency when compared to the socialist doctrine of class consciousness and conflict.

Why is Mussolini so overlooked as a aesthetic-political theorist?

The only person I've seen do him justice in a way is Benjamin.

Left wing =\= Liberal

Did he actually say that? What a savage

>britain and france declare war on germany
>couple years later the whole fucking world declared war on germany
Yeah, WW2 was TOTALLY german agression.

>poland
>sudetes
>austria
muh germans dindu nuffin!

>austria
completely democratic referendum where people chose to be annexed
>sudetes
protection of opressed german minorities that was in fact agreed in the munich conference
>poland
prussia is rightful german clay. it's completely debatable.

>In socialist terms
Who cares about what socialists define fascism as?

Neat, thanks

> socialism is liberal
AHHWWWWW LAWDDDDDDDDY LAWDDDDD

also Mosley and his crew weren't Republicans you fucking american cunt, they loved god, queen, and country.
I SUPPOSE that you might be able to say that some of Mussolini's early (and some would say sincere) ideas about Christianity, race, and the monarchy were liberal but his policy certainly did not reflect his sincere ideas.

Fascism is socialist.

Couldn't have said it better my friend :)

t. fascist, but when asked by normies, national socialist, but when asked by normies who might know who national socialists are, socialist

Also, what differences between fascism and national-socialism would you say there are? if any?