If you stop existing when you die, that just means that you have to make the most of this life!

> The second is also obvious.
How? Because your goal is to feel the best at the final point of your life?! Like if your memory would be erased next week, it doesn't even matter if this week for you would be happy or consisted of pure fucking torture. Because only memories of you on your the death bed matters or some shit like that?

But they are opinions.

"The most" of one's life is 100% subjective. There is no objective "most". To make it easy low-branch clear to you:

>You won't make the most of your life by eating every cake put in front of you.
The only thing I care about in life is eating cakes that are put in front of me, nothing else matters. You're instantly wrong.

>For the same reason that you shouldn't just eat every cake in front of you
Why shouldn't I eat every cake placed in front of me?

>you also shouldn't care about forming any memory that will be destroyed when your brain is destroyed.
Why? What?

These are opinions. How can you not see this?

>Because your goal is to feel the best at the final point of your life?!
My goal is to do well in the long term. My point is, there is no long term on atheism.

There is no difference between the logic that says you should go through the stressful exam so you get a good job, and the logic that says that life on atheism is ultimately meaningless. Only cognitive dissonance keeps some atheists from carrying the logic through.

It's meaningful to leave legacy for future generations.

And I can't take you seriously if you're gonna bring le heat death to the discussion.

>How can someone be happy is he knows he is fooling himself?
There's often a moment when you are so elated that you don't notice the reality. That's what most people live for. That's why people seek love, because love gives you those perfect moments that seem like they'll never end. But they will. Unless the love is for an immortal being.

>And I can't take you seriously if you're gonna bring le heat death to the discussion.
Why not? There is no important difference between small numbers and big numbers. A human lifetime can seems pretty long, or it can seem pretty short. Likewise, the whole length of the universe might seem pretty short from some angles.

The only important difference is between finite and infinite.

You're both so fucking wrong about the fundamentals of what you're talking about, it's interesting to watch. You guys are literally talking about your own opinions as facts and are wondering why they're different from other people's facts.

"Meaning" is a subjective term.

"Importance" is a subjective term.

> from some angles
The only angle we can experience is human angle. And from this angle the end of the universe approaches infinity.

You're right that it's subjective, but I believe that all people, if they really think about it, will come to the same subjective conclusions. That's why all of human culture can plausibly be explained as a denial of death. People don't like endings.

The difference between a very large number and infinity is literally infinite. Why would you lump the two things together? It's non sequitor.

> there is no long term
There is. It is an entire time range of your life, you need to sign up to the some insane version of the presentism where past isn't real to claim that just because your memories would be destroyed your entire life would be meaningless. Probably even to very sollipsistic one at that as you claim that only what is in your and only your head have meaning. These assumptions goes far beyond the atheism.

If you get a high number off that integral, what can you cash it in for? Who can you show it off to?

If you really want to play this game, the difference between a zero and a very small numbers is also an infinite one.

No it isn't, pleb. We're talking distance, not cardinality.

>but I believe that all people, if they really think about it, will come to the same subjective conclusions
People observably have different subjective conclusions in this thread, so blatant evidence sitting before us either disproves your belief, or that humans haven't "really though about it", in which case, humans don't really think about it, meaning you're belief is disproven once again by evidence sitting right before us.

>That's why all of human culture can plausibly be explained as a denial of death. People don't like endings.
[citation needed]
Not all cultures are western abrahamic capitalist death-fearing oligarchies. Countless cultures practice ego-death methods that make death not matter to them. Take the story about the buddhist monk who fed himself to the starving tigress, as an easy to reach example. You're making outlandish claims that generalize humanity into your vision of what they should be. Why should humanity be what you want it to be? How will you accomplish this?

> Why even play the game, if nobody would pay you for high score or glorify your name for game archivements?!

how is that even relevant?

I thought your mathematical implication is about a finite life being meaningless? Which is retarded as zerostill infinities smaller than any finite value.

It's more like "why even play the game if you'll immediately forget you ever played it".

It's not hard to see this interpretation of human culture. I think that non-afterlifers who kill themselves are perfectly sensible, they're just trading in a long finite life for a short finite life. But they'd prefer if afterlife existed.

>zerostill infinities smaller than any finite value.
No it isn't! Learn some maths. There's a concept called a metric that can perfectly sensibly say that the difference between 0 and 1 is finite, and the difference between 1 and infinity is infinite.

>But they'd prefer if afterlife existed.
[citation needed]
Do you know the difference between subjectivity and objectivity?

Even canadian rock singers from the last thirty years talked about the prison of everlasting life. Not everyone thinks the way you do, and there's no logical foundation to think the way you do instead of another way. It's just an opinion, as subjective as if I asked you what your favorite color was.

> I do things to remember doing things!
Even if you put your point like that it is still a very unsecure way of thought. Like you can't life good, meaningful life without some kind of evidence that you live good and meaningful life. Be it a memory of yours or some kind of the clever long term plan.

>there's no logical foundation to think the way you do instead of another way
Sure there is! Every day, I always plan on existing the next day. That's what having a life means.

>Like you can't life good, meaningful life without some kind of evidence that you live good and meaningful life.
Suppose I told you that you spent the last two years on a secret government experiment, and then your memory was wiped and you were reinserted back into society with false memories.

Was your time on the government experiment meaningful to you?

>It's more like "why even play the game if you'll immediately forget you ever played it".
To win. Why should I play the game to remember I played it? Why is that an inherently more important reason to play?

This is an opinion.

You guys do realize that you can talk about metaphysics and philosophy by critique of the logical validity and soundness of claims instead of just pretending your opinions are facts, right?

> Learn some maths.
It is you who are in need to learn. You can't really reach finite value if you only got zeroes. Which is the same situation with infinity that you just can't reach with set of finite values. Which means that difference between zero and finite is the same as difference between finite and infinite.

>I always plan on existing the next day. That's what having a life means.
A Kamikaze pilot the day of an attack isn't planning on existing the next day, but he has a life. The fact that they existed in such a state proves your claims subjectivity.

Planning on existing the next day is not the objective meaning of life. I don't think trees have plans.

>opinion
My point isn't that it's not an opinion, my point is that it's EVERYONE's opinion in their daily operating procedure, and they just pretend it doesn't apply on a larger scale.

I've never met anyone who would be enthusiastic about spending an hour doing something that would leave no memories and have no effect on the world. So why would they be enthusiastic about spending a lifetime on it?

>A Kamikaze pilot the day of an attack isn't planning on existing the next day, but he has a life.
He has an immortality project: The Eternal Japanese Empire. But it isn't actually eternal, so he's made a mistake.

>my point is that it's EVERYONE's opinion in their daily operating procedure
Except for a kamikaze pilots. Or someone who is about to jump off of a bridge. Or an elderly person who opts to pull their own plug.

>I've never met anyone who would be enthusiastic about spending an hour doing something that would leave no memories and have no effect on the world
Is being enthusiastic the objective meaning of life?

Why can't you understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity? It's bizarre.

>He has an immortality project: The Eternal Japanese Empire.
[citation needed]
I doubt that's what was going through everyone's minds. Regardless, I could just use an example of someone who's going to kill themselves today instead. They have no plans for tomorrow, but are alive, contradicting your belief and making it objectively wrong.

>Regardless, I could just use an example of someone who's going to kill themselves today instead. They have no plans for tomorrow, but are alive, contradicting your belief and making it objectively wrong.
I know they're alive. My point is precisely that suicidal people are either sacrificing themselves for what they believe is the Eternal, or else they've noticed the pointlessness of finite life and are despairing.

You just have. Hello I personally would like to sign up for the 1 hour memory wipe sex experience with *insert 1 of my many celebrity or local crushes.

The fact that I wont remember it has nothing to do with my enjoying it in the now.

It doesn't matter for present me for sure, but there is no way that it wouldn't matter for past me. Your point of view supposes that only last you have the rights to do decide what is meaningless and what is not... I am not surprised that every present you see his existence as meangless one because all of your motivations are subject to the opinion of a last future you. Who wouldn't even really exist as judge, jury and executioners would be dead. That kind of logics is pretty good for cornering yourself.

Really? You know you won't even gain any happiness, right? You'll just think you were never offered the choice.

No offense, but being that short-term focused would mean you wouldn't succeed at much, right?

This is trolling

For one thing, the avoidance of pain is by far the most common reason people commit suicide, and you listing two relatively uncommon reasons as the dichotomic options contradicts observable reality.

If that were not the case, you're making the claim that everyone wants eternal life, which is blatantly observably false as well. I've already provided multiple examples of people in history who don't want that. Multiple cultures in history as well as countless philosophers and artists have reflected the idea that immortality is a prison that you cannot escape from. For some this is even reasoning behind why mortality is better than immortality. This reflects the pure subjectivity of these claims. The fact that people like this exist makes what you're saying not facts.

You base your facts on how you feel and what you want things to be. How does that reasoning even work?

not him but "success" is a subjective term in the way you are using it.

If all he wanted to succeed at was having short sexual experiences he doesn't remember, he would succeed at a lot in life.

You need to look up the difference between subjectivity and objectivity.

I view success as subjective. I will never own a large corporation nor will I contribute to a effective cure for cancer but I find enjoyment in the short term. I will gain happiness for the time i get to experience within that hour. Because it is taken from me doesn't mean it never happened. It simple means I cannot remember the moment of happiness.

>You can only make the most of your life by long-term planning. But if you take your long-term planning seriously, everything has a value of zero.

These two statements are directly contradictory.

>On atheism, a person on their deathbed might have regrets. But that's fine, they just have to wait a few minutes and then they won't feel regretful anymore. Not much of a problem.

Not a problem when they're dead, no. But it's not about death, it's about life. You can only evaluate your life as a whole at the end of it. It's not that your 90 year old self is more important than your 30 year old self.

> you won't even gain any happiness
That couldn't be true. Purely because somebody would gain happiness from that and if it isn't you, who the fuck would gain it? Imagine that instead one hour your would sign up to one hour a day... What about two hours a day? When you got the twelve who is even counts as real you? The pure amnesiac one? The lucky sexy one? How about 99,99999% of sexy live and second of amnesia? Surely there would be the point where happiness would be yours as even authentic people doesn't really remember literally anything and wouldn't to do that as human memory is unrealiable shit that changes every second of your existence anyway.

Im not a Philosophy student or even a history buff. I come here to read other peoples interesting opinions or historical sagas because that gives me happiness in the short term without retaining the knowledge presented to me.

Im generally a fairly depressed, flat person so I seek the small moments of happiness or even calm to escape the negative state. If that happens even for a moment and that moment is instantly lost from my memory for that moment I am no longer depressed and therefore it was worth it.

if people believed in their death, they would be able to endure any pains on earth, they would not be scared of dying nor of pains.

when we believe in our death, when we believe that anything stops ''at death'' (reminder that you cannot prove that you will die, just like you cannot prove that you have been born), you do not have a problem taking a few hardships. it is not a few years of suffering which scare you, since at the end it stops.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with this post(believed in their death?) but yes. People die when they are killed...

>You can only make the most of your life by long-term planning.
Opinion.
>But if you take your long-term planning seriously, everything has a value of zero
Completely unsubstantiated.

>there is no long term in atheism

Yes there is, you ass. Long term would just be roughly the length of the length of the average human lifespan

>something has to be eternal for it to have any meaning at all

Lmao even the Buddhists refuted this millennia ago

As always OP is a faggot

>even the Buddhists
I like how you imply they are least significant philosophy.

It must be nice being American - not knowing that other countries even exist.

I didn't mean it wasn't influential. It's just utter garbage in terms of quality of thought.

t. Person born and raised in purely western, Christian dominated culture for their entire lives