Muh free market

>muh free market

Free market is a fiction. Every market is regulated and manipulated in one way or the other.

great discussion material you got going on in here op, nice work

Manipulation is a word used by retards who don't know how economics work. Debate me.

Not a free market.

I agree. The boundaries of the "free market" always change as well.

As long as gummint's involved yeah that'll happen.

Arbitrage bitches. Where big money at.

>#feeltheBern, the post

Guy Standing what's up?

Hist/Econ grad here. There really is no such thing as a free market. All markets need guards, addresses, contract enforcers, property taxes, etc. At some point an authority gets its cut.

Even the black market isn't free. It only exists because regulated markets are somewhere else. If there were no regulated markets, there would be no black market to profiteer the risk/reward of avoiding laws. Even then, you'll probably be using government (regulated) monetary instruments to buy contraband. Nobody's going to sell you cocaine for gold dust, they want American Eagles or cash money.

Then again, there are freer markets...

wtf I hate free markets now!

>Libertarian: The best economies are run on completely free markets with no government involvement whatsoever!
>Libertarian: Also we need the government to regulate property rights and enforce contracts otherwise nothing will get done

WHICH IS IT?

Central banks are manipulating the market, and now the market is going nowhere. Not up, not down. It's like we're in purgatory.

>don't knowi what manipulaton means

In a true free market, all your employees would be slaves (no laws against slavery) and you would literally go to war with your competitors (no laws against murder, no laws at all)

You've only described the difference between Libertarians & Anarcho-Capitalists. Ancaps can filed under the general ideology of Libertarianism, but not the other way around.

>Left wing: The Government intrusion into the market is best! Businesses are evil and will always hurt the populace! Only the government has their best interest at heart, and central planning makes things better!
>Left Wing: lol, I'm not a socialist wtf are you talking about I'm totally a fan of property rights

WHICH IS IT?

this. libertarian philosophy is that market needs rules but they should be clear, universal, and necessary. the problem isnt rules in the free market, its obscure, unfair, and frivolous rules that are the problem.

The only fre, 0-fucks-given market is the crypto market.

BTC is king, get in or get deprecated.

>deprecated
Your grasp of the English language is astonishing. You are one smart cookie.

>a market with any government authority is not truly free

Top kek. You're as absurd as the ancaps. Yes obviously a market depends on property rights enforced by government authority, why on earth would that mean it wasn't a free market retards. Even with a substantial degree of government intervention it is still free in a profound sense so long as property rights in general are respected

The problem is that you can always use capital to enforce property rights in your favor.

Either through lobbying or hiring better lawyers.

I mean I suppose you could crackdown on lobbying or outlaw lawyers, but I suppose that means you have government interference on high levels.

price flooring/ceiling, taxation, quotas are all forms of manipulation.

not really, employees have the right to form unions and refuse to work if they see the employer wronging them. reality says in a free market every company is a collaborative, no master no slave

Well the employers could hire private security forces to put the unions down like the Pinkertons.

and then the unions and their relatives pickup their pitchforks and lynch the security forces along with their employer

If you're saying that the assumptions made in the perfect and monopolistic competition models used in economics aren't realistic, then you're completely correct. All economists would admit to that, but they judge models based on how well they predict market behavior, not on how fully realized the assumptions are.
This is really not an attack of capitalism, but a defense of it. It seems most market failures occur because of regulation, not despite it. California brown outs in the early 2000s during their 'deregulation' of power generation was because their idiot legislature unwittingly giving the generation firms a shit ton of monopoly power. The housing market crisis was an eventuality of guaranteeing subprime mortgages back in the 90s. More regulation just brings more lawyers figuring out loopholes and then businesses exploiting them. Communists will say that real communism hasn't really ever happened, but at the same time they attack capitalism which itself has never really existed in pure form, in recent history at least.
Oh well.

Your a dumb shit

IF THERE IS SOME AUTHORITY YOU HAVE NOT VOLUNTEERED FOR, IT IS NO LONGER FREE

Force is at play at some level, and you have to abide by their decisions. What part of that is "free"? Do you vote for executive orders?

>deprecated
Are you new? Or just a nocoiner.