Is there any legitimacy or substance to Wicca whatsoever or is it just edgy teenage girls going 'fuck you mom and dad...

But it does? You need to worship the two Gods with an altar of tributes and there are holidays and such that you must participate in as a Wiccan. So it does demand from it's followers. You are correct though that it can be very fanfiction tier though.

>with apologies to our Pagan friends
Yeah, """"""pagans"""""" really deserve apologies.

As such it should be mocked and rediculed. If your daughter buys a Wicca book, burn it.

Wicca, Odinism, Asaratu, "heathenry", etc, are all almost entirely modern creations by revivalists and Crowley-type esotericists.

It's similar to how in the 1800s you had medieval revivalists running around in fake suits of armor and jerking off about chivalry.

But do you have to sacrifice a part of oyur body for your god? Oh, you dont? lul fake religion.

There is a difference between

Wicca, a religion founded in the 20th century which has specific tenants, beliefs, etc, that are rooted in mythology but not actual historical pagan practices.

and

"Wicca," which is what gets promoted in 99% of books that are predominately bought by teenagers going through a phase which may or may not last the next 30 years.

"Wicca" is basically "lol yeah worship a god and goddess it can be anyone or ones you want!!! Spells are just like prayers n' stuff also pick a cool Wicca name!" and the authors of these books just kind of throw together various pagan and neopagan beliefs and concepts and run with them.

Granted they are both ridiculous.

Its for feminist tumblrinas who are pissed that western religions all have masculine gods.

It was developed by men in the 1920s

Yeah, and My Little Pony was made for children, but we all know how that went

No. It's a joke. The only people who worship it are relativists who want all the cool stuff of religion without any of the requirements of the adherent, mixed in part with aging feminists and SJW cunts who only follow it because "muh female empowerment!!!"

It has plenty of substance, it's just that the edgy teenage girls you describe don't join for substance. Some of us are actually not walking stereotypes, believe it or not.

fuck off, edgelord.
your """"religion"""" is a sham.

>Harm none
Why not?

To give a pretense of demand and restriction to the "faith."

>Why not?
That's what Satanism is for

All religions are a sham, user.

>You're daughter decides to practice Wicca

How do you respond Veeky Forums?

I thought I told you about them spooks.

btw family is a spook too, my property.

Witches were the "priests" and priestesses of old Pagan religions. You gotta think, before people sold fire wheels and understood how to make fire, it must have seemed like something only a magician could do. Same with healing/medicine among other things. These guys were the precursors to doctors and scientists and were highly regarded. Could they actually do magic though? Depends on what you call magic. They did have a high understanding of astronomy and the way things worked, perhaps to the extent that they could see the fabric of fate, and even manipulate it.

meme answer: le ebin christian crusade knight man
honest answer: "I don't care"

There's a male god in Wicca too I think.

Male god and female god. Duality and all that jazz.

Make fun of her a lot.

She'll probably grow out of it by 19 at the most.

>They did have a high understanding of astronomy and the way things worked, perhaps to the extent that they could see the fabric of fate, and even manipulate it.
astrology is bunk

Proof?

How valid neopaganism is depends on the what pagan religion the neopagans are trying to emulate.

also that part about Islam. lmao. I knew I shouldn't have read the full article.

As legitimate as Satanists

Compare all the different horoscopes sources.

Wicca is a meme

this old kook who was really into ritual knives invented it, claiming to have been initiated into a legit centuries old coven

there is some substance but nothing occult or hidden from the masses, just general stuff from Margaret Murray

actual witches are real though and have been around since before Christianity, they're just extremely secretive and it's mainly a family-based tradition, passed down generationally

unfortunately, it seems most legit crypto-witch families have been subjugated by Satanists and Freemasons as mine was, essentially harvesting our bloodlines for ritual power

I focus my craft more on my matrilineal Irish midwife ancestor rather than than the occult elite I'm descended from, Crowleyan-influenced Masonic rituals (cult programming really) and all that harmful bullshit

I do think it's better that most people get into the virtually harmless surface level occult stuff like Wicca and neo-paganism, messing around with more "legitimate with substance" covens, cults, and secret societies is just begging to be manipulated and mind-controlled

Yes, in general the horned male god is the guardian of and role model for men as is the female goddess for women.

>actual witches are real though and have been around since before Christianity, they're just extremely secretive and it's mainly a family-based tradition, passed down generationally
And are just twats who huff sulfur all day.

>unfortunately, it seems most legit crypto-witch families have been subjugated by Satanists and Freemasons as mine was, essentially harvesting our bloodlines for ritual power
Nice victim complex, you fags ARE satanists.

>U focus my craft more on my matrilineal Irish midwife ancestor rather than than the occult elite I'm descended from, Crowleyan-influenced Masonic rituals (cult programming really) and all that harmful bullshit
You have no craft. You have no power. You have no heritage. It's all garbage that deserves to be forgotten like the rest of European polytheism.

>I do think it's better that most people get into the virtually harmless surface level occult stuff like Wicca and neo-paganism, messing around with more "legitimate with substance" covens, cults, and secret societies is just begging to be manipulated and mind-controlled
And I think it's better if they all out abhor, condemn and abolish all things "witchcrafty." It's spiritual gambling and superstition.

>it's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown!

the irony here is that the Roman Catholic church has been infiltrated at the highest levels by Luciferian occultists

exactly why i love that pic

>Roman Catholic church has been infiltrated at the highest levels by Luciferian occultists

Quit reading Chick Tracts faggot.

lmao that's not all how i know that, but Chick is a stopped clock

>You have no craft. You have no power. You have no heritage. It's all garbage that deserves to be forgotten like the rest of European polytheism.

Where's your god's power?

...

mostly based on victorian era revival of renaissance ceremonial magic, and satanism, but they hate to be associated with the latter

Wow. It's a superstitious people calling each other's superstitions silly thread.

You could argue that with the loss of its power since the Italian Unification, the Catholic Church is currently in the dustbin of history.

Just because it doesn't have a standing army it doesn't mean it's dead.

It's gonna take more generations for it to erode.

Margaret Murray wrote a book about how the persecution of witches was in fact a persecution of traditional rural pagans and that Satanic sabbaths were in reality pagan festivities worshipping some cuckold horned god and a mother goddess. The book has long been debunked by real historians and ethnographers as absolute horseshit, but this didn't stop dyke feminists from attempting to recreate this "cult", usually in a form of frustrated obese women cosplaying as witches with random occult symbols that are commonly associated with Satan worship.

Wicca has some solid foundations to it.

The problem is that it's overpopulated by people trying to profit off of teenage girls.

Drawing Down the Moon gives some good philosophy for it, but it's hard to find any other book that isn't constant period blood rituals and obsessing over the matriarchy instead of realizing that the religion they are attempting to revive had patriarchal pantheons. Sure, Danu was the mother of the Irish gods, but she didn't rule over them and women were viewed as irrational and as property throughout the Ulster cycle that the Celtic focused Wiccans seem so big on.

The duotheistic aspect is entirely where Wicca loses it's ground. They try to claim that all the gods are just those two, but they presented themselves as different people based on situation and time. Yet, we have multiple stories that say the gods were on the battlefields and would fight each other on occasions.

About the same amount as any other religion (none).

All these

Wicca is an edgy phase for teenage girls who think everyone before Christianity ate mushrooms in the woods and danced naked for the goddess(es) when in reality most celtic/germanic pagans did not allow women to hold religious "office" (druids) and had a hierarchy of gods adopted from the Hellenistic-Roman pantheon.

I'm a Pagan myself and it's upsetting the current Pagan revival is being led by tumblr goths and Asatru viking larpers.

Well there was some girl that was dug up that MAY have been a female druid that was widely respected, but the lack of any stories about her show how important she was as a whole. She was oddly shaped anyway, so it was probably some kings illegitimate child that he had tucked away.

Feminist celebration of cuckoldry

>Is there any legitimacy or substance to Wicca whatsoever

Compared to what?

Horns can mean many things, the use of horns as a sign of cuckolding dates from the 15th century onward as a sign of being unaware of the adultery. Remember, "cuckold" referred to someone who was cheated on and not the "watching your wife get fucked" as it's used online today.

Also this may be a case of christian countries misappropriating pagan symbols to discredit the religion, like Pan's cloved hooves = satan, venus/morning star = lucifer, sacred groves = dark and scary woods where evil resides

why follow a shit tier new relgion when you could have a respected old one?

Any books I should read if I want to learn about "true" paganism?

I truly, honestly, really don't understand how you can join a religion whose origins are openly pragmatic.

What the fuck? Christianity makes sense. I don't believe it, but it makes sense. Because it's founded on the belief that supernatural events happened in history, and gave us a message.

You can't believe something without believing that it's true. Right? Isn't that what belief is? How can you believe that something is true, when the people who made it up wrote books about how they made it up?

>Christianity makes sense.

But it does! Christianity is exactly the sort of religion that I would join. Because it's really a belief about history. Being a Christian is like being someone who thinks that Vikings discovered America. You believe that a specific thing happened in history, and accept the logical consequences. I can understand that.

What is going on in the mind of someone who says "Hey, this made-up religion is neat. I'll believe it." I will never understand. Belief isn't a fashion statement, it's a stance on what is true.

Those are antlers, not horns, in both pics

>Wiccans that claim that Roman/Greek/Norse Gods are actually just the two Wiccan Gods, and that any additional Gods were either made up or not worshiped,
Wait, does that imply their own gods aren't made up? I thought it was like an Alan Moore/Glycon thing where you recognize it's not literally true but practice it anyway.

I'm not defending this meme religion or anything but why wouldn't they just claim those stories of gods fighting each other are false?
It's not as though their mythology can be true if they don't reject the majority of other mythologies and religions anyway.

Probably because that kills their whole approach to saying "everyone is right".

They'll even let you say Jesus or Yahweh is the male god if you really want and that Mary is the female goddess.

They literally care about nothing other than fantasy now. Which is unfortunate because the initial tradition that was just about the polarities of male and female wasn't that bad.

It's a proto-New Age new religious movement that establishes legitimacy among members with unverifiable claims of being an old religion dating back to the middle ages.

It started out as a mid twentieth century adaptation of the occult themed secret societies popular among unemployed aristocrats and bored civil servants in the Victorian era, adding in a persecution myth with a built-in association with the medieval capital crime of witchcraft. However, there really isn't much continuity between Wicca and the medieval concept of witchcraft.

Wicca is now mostly popular among feminists, nerds, hippies, and fantasy fans, but most of its appeal lies in rejecting monotheism and believing in the self as a channel for "magic(k)" via deities.

Because the Big Three have sacred texts that include what many would see as antiquated prohibitions against fortune telling, homosexuality, eating certain foods, and inter-religious conversion, sometimes recommending a death sentence. Obviously that would have made sense to people in the when and where of those texts as first written down, but some of those selections are focused in on by people who prefer fundamentalist readings at the expense of the rest of the text. This of course leads to a negative interpretation of those religions, leading more rebellious spirits to reject them in favor of a newer, less stringent alternative.

I believe in a Christian interpretation of God but can see where someone in the modern west would become upset with the Old Testament over some of its sentences, prohibitions, and laws.

>I believe in a Christian interpretation of God but can see where someone in the modern west would become upset with the Old Testament over some of its sentences, prohibitions, and laws.

Ceremonial Vs Moral Law and centuries of exegesis in light of the Gospels toward what the OT should mean to followers of the NT. It's also kind how Marcionism became the heresy we know today.

No they believe the two Gods are real, but only the two Gods. At least, some of them do. I'm sure there are others that are more liberal and allow others to exist but I've read from some trying to force feed their religion into others. Ex. "Only the Nordic peoples worshiped the twin Gods, which they called Odin/Wodin and Freya. " This is really not true at all because why are there Mjolnir symbols from the viking era that imply Thor worship as well? It's just sad that they need to make up history to feel legitimate.

>rather than than the occult elite I'm descended from

Pic related - "A History of Pagan Europe." Broadly covers European paganism by region, the reasons for its decline, and a little bit about modern day pagan revivals. Very good book.

Kemetic wicca does try to maintain some semblance of the traditions of the Egyptians, and some new forest wiccans do try to follow Cernunnos of ancient Gaul.

I'm actually interested in studying up on Alexandrian Wicca.

Sounds like WEWUZism to me.

>I'm a Pagan myself and it's upsetting the current Pagan revival is being led by tumblr goths and Asatru viking larpers.

Yeah because Veeky Forums "Hail Odin" retards would be a much better front for it.

How can anyone be a pagan anyway. Paganism isn't a religion, it's just a term used to describe any non-abrahamic religion. Do you just follow all of them?

What makes people think you can just worship the Egyptian gods when there's no priests or Pharaoh? It's not some kind of smorgasbord.

What makes you think they can't? One can worship whatever they wish to worship. Whether these gods will accept it or not is between them and these gods.

Alright, will look into it.

as legitimate and substantial as any other religion i guess

>DAD IM A WICCAN NOW

>Ok honey! Dinner in 15 minutes.

Wiccan girls are the best fucks desu.

how many languages actually differentiate between the two? I know mine doesn't

If you like pounding hamplanets

Veeky Forums "Hail Odin" retards = Asatru viking larpers

I give offering to an amalgamation of Celtic, Germanic, and Roman deities, as well as the spirits of the local pagus. Pagan isn't a religion like the Abrahamic ones are, they're not dogmatic and are incredibly adaptable to other's beliefs. The Romans for example believed every culture has their own gods distinct from their own (or in a different form of their own), and would often adopt a foreign deity into their own belief system as a mystery cult (Mithras, Isis). In the initial conquest of Italy the Romans would even pray to a city's patron deity before besieging it.

I, like some Romans believed, think all higher powers are distinct and individual yet ultimately spring from the same "oneness." This starkly contrasts with Christianity/Islam/Judaism, who think practitioners of all other religions are being deceived by the devil.

Depends. There are some groups of Wicca that believe in only a female divinity.

It's more that they don't worship the male one because he dies every year and then he's absent until the goddess rebirths him.

It's such a weird religion.

Not really. Modern version of a classical mystery cult or a Victorian secret society, but obviously more open.

I'm kinda agnostic to Hellenism if that counts. It seems closer to what the evidence suggests than the abrahamic mythologies.

edgy teenage girls pool for true alpha male satans to pick and choose from

>It's all garbage that deserves to be forgotten like the rest of European polytheism.

No irony or hypocrisy at all.

>It's all garbage that deserves to be forgotten like the rest of European polytheism.
>OH COME ON, IT'S 380

Reminder that the Big three are
>Christianity
>Islam
>Hinduism

Followed by Chinese Folk Religion, Bhudism, Taoism, Shinto and Sikhism.

I think one of the reasons Jewdaism is considered a Big 3 is because it's the foundation of the Big 2. The other reason is the high level of control the Juice have over media and academics.

The Roman's also insist to translate most gods names into Roman. Like when they talk about how Germanics hold great reverence of Mercury. And how the Celts claim descent from Pluto.

That's a silly way to do things.

And I thought it was atheists from the Askenazi ethnicity that were the meme merchants.

But anyway if our going to follow the foundation logic you should also be including Samaritanism since that's (more or less) the foundation of the whole Abrahamic set.

They should thank the catholic monks for recording their tales

Wasn't it a woman named Margaret Murray who first wrote a book about it in the 1920's?

It was Gerald Gardner in the 1940s-50s