This kills the mongol

are you aware that the country you attack has hundreds of castles?
And if you leave a token force at every castle, your main army will melt away.

>sack the country side and burn the farm fields
you wont be able to go very deep into enemies country, since eventually most of your force will be busy sieging castles.
Meanwhile, the peasant population flees to the part of the country not occupied by you

Whatever keeps your eurocentric worldview intact, my man.

do you think it is a coincidence that horsefuckers never managed to counquer Europe?

They completely btfo Hungary and left on their own when the Khan died.

>hire/conscript Europeans who know European siegeecraft

>Euroboos overlook the fact that Mongolia pulled out of due the death of the Great Khan

>are you aware that the country you attack has hundreds of castles?

Are you aware that the Mongols had the most advanced siege techniques of all time? Are your aware they conquered much stronger fortifications in China?

They started pulling out before he died.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
Really makes you think...

See

lel
even a shithole like hungary could btfo mongols.
they never had any chance of taking european heartland

then how comes they didnt manage to take even one (1) stone castle in hungary?

We can't say, because a wholehearted invasion never took place before the empire collapsed. In a what-if scenario, wherein a proper invasion force was dedicated, there's no question.

>conquer most of the fucking world without slowing down
>stop at an arbitrary point
>people beyond said point go "LOL WE'RE SUPERMEN"

maybe they were stopped. also: maybe it was more that they'd done what they set out to do.

Until winter comes around and fucks them in the ass

>then how comes
Are you actually contesting hat chinese fortifications weren't more extensive and technically impressive.

just because they managed to conquer rest of the world doesnt mean they could conquer Europe.

yes

Well that's silly

You know this wasn't the unified Mongol Empire, right? They didn't have anywhere near the same resources and technology.

Do you think Mongolia doesn't have a winter or something?

They had to leave to fight in one of their frequent civil wars

ITT: people mixing up two different wars 50 years apart

then how comes mongols took all the "impressive" chinese fortifications and yet couldnt take even one hungarian stone castle?

Well he's right, other than the wall which was built in Ming period Europe's fortifications were far better, mainly because of the constant infighting

Easy. Kill every last man, woman, and child not in the castles. Maybe sell a few off into slavery too. Conquer a few of the bigger and better castles just to show no one is safe. Be especially cruel to those who resist. Wait for Europeans to just surrender as soon as I show up to save their countries from devastation.

That can go on indefinitely because the Mongols rarely had to waste their own lives. They just sent conquered peoples in waves at their enemy.

mongols started conquering china when they were still relativly small

>w-we didnt want to conquer you anyway

Oh, it has, but mountainous area+scorched earth+winter=mongols fukked

This. It's someone standing on a beach just above the tide line bragging about defeating the ocean.

And feed your horses and men on....?

Because its war you silly child. Just because you do x does not mean you will do y in the future it just stands to reason that you would be able to.

>Easy. Kill every last man, woman, and child not in the castles.
Civilan popualtion has fled to the part of the country not occupied by you

>Conquer a few of the bigger and better castles just to show no one is safe
Mongols didn't have the means to conquer stone castles, they didnt even manage to conquer one

Because they were in Hungary for about a year and were in China for about a century.

Iran had massive impenetrable castles too, what the Mongols did there was take over the country and its cities in a few years and then take the castles one by one over the following decades.

So what about the first one? In which Hungary had castles but the Mongs BTFO them anyway?

Austrian btw and I know a lot of Hungarian stone castles that were BTFO during the Mongol Invasion. This being one of them.

I dont understand your reasoning
chinese fortifications were more impressive and yet easier to overcome?

Because the Khan died and they left.

The Mongols failed to conquer Southeast Asia as well. Does that mean that the Southeast Asian kingdoms were just as mighty as Europe?

The only castle they "BTFO" was Eztergom, and even that one was only partial since they didn't manage to take the citadel

>Mongols didn't have the means to conquer stone castles

Please stop posting, you are embarrassing yourself.

>calling eachother a mongol is an insult these days

boy it must be nice being an actual mongol

They would have brought European engineers into their service just like they did with the Chinese.

If the Europeans were taking territory from Europeans, so could the Mongols.

Well yeah

This starts the weeaboos.

>wanting to be a savage destroyer of civilization that brought nothing good to the world

> However, stone castles had significantly better fortunes; none of the few Hungarian stone castles fell, even those deep behind the Mongol lines. When the Mongols tried to use their siege engines on the stone walls of the Croatian Fortress of Klis, they did absolutely no damage, and were repelled with heavy casualties.[7]
horsefucker BTFO

>Iran had massive impenetrable castles
By "massive impenetrable castles", you probably mean a fortified city. cities and castles have entierly different functions. a citiy is there to protect the civilian population
a castle holds around 200 warriors, forcing the enemy to either split his forced for a siege or live with the the warriors raiding his supply lines.

And what about the second invasion of Hungary, where mongols got wrecked?

>Civilan popualtion has fled to the part of the country not occupied by you
They can't outrun me. And if their fear of me was so great that they left ahead of time as soon as they heard I was coming then they are just as likely to surrender to me outright.

>Mongols didn't have the means to conquer stone castles,
Yes they do. They are called sieges. They didn't conquer any notable castles in Europe because sieges the Great Khan died and sieges take a long time.

He couldn't even steamroll all persia or all china, others had to do it for him after his death.

Ever heard of scorched earth you retard?
They flee, and leave nothing behind for you but ashes, so you're forced to turn back or starve

Ok then

>They can't outrun me. And if their fear of me was so great that they left ahead of time as soon as they heard I was coming then they are just as likely to surrender to me outright.
sure you can get some peasants. but you cant be everywhere at once, most civilians will flee in time.

>They didn't conquer any notable castles in Europe because sieges the Great Khan died and sieges take a long time.
What about the second invasion of hungary?

Are you retarded? They conquered X therefore it stands to reason they could conquer Y but because it's war it's not a guarantee that they will do so. They can always have politics, logistics or one of a thousand different things get in the way and make leaving seem like a bette alternative.

You're assuming the reason is castles because it makes your e-dick hard and you're assuming it's euro-cas r less in particular because it entertains you and some sad sense of quasi-racial superiority when in reality some fuck commander forgot to carry the figurative 1 this time.

>euro-cas r less
Really auto correct? "Euro-castles" ....fucking come on.

>they destroy their country for me
Good. I'll conquer someone else in the interim and come back after they have weakened themselves for me.

>R-Retard!
wew

>By "massive impenetrable castles", you probably mean a fortified city
No you dumb fucking retard. There was a state in Iran that consisted of literally nothing but a series of mountaintop castles, which managed to hold out against the hostile Seljuk empire despite being within their borders. The Mongols completely destroyed them.

Like I said, the Mongols conquered the cities and countryside first, then destroyed the castles over the next few decades. There's absolutely no reason to think they wouldn't have done the same in Hungary or anywhere else, but they were only there for a year or two before politics pulled them away.

You're an idiot if you think the Mongols had time to pacify the entire country within a single year.

What do you people think other Europeans did against European castles? Just say 'fuck it' and leave? Was this an unprecedented time of peace brought about by the use of castles? I don't think so.

This t.b.h Mongols conquered fucking Alamut.

>Good. I'll conquer someone else in the interim and come back after they have weakened themselves for me.
No, nit good at all. This isn't a video game you mong, while you conquer someone else (who is also pulling scorched earth policy) you leave your supply lines vulnerable to raids from the castles you just left

Just because downs look like mongols, though.

They also failed to conquer India or Egypt, or South East Asia, or Japan. Don't go around saying they conquered the whole wide world.

Didn't have enough heavy knights in the first one. When they started fielding large amounts of knights rather than small detachements that could easily be picked apart, they BTFO the mongols.

Plus

>Mongols, over the course of a century, gradually conquer China, Transoxiana, Iran, Iraq, the Caucasus and Russia, overcoming countless walled cities, citadels and castles utilizing every form of siege technology known to man
>spend about a years in one part of western Europe, completely wreck everyone they meet and force the defenders to hold out in castles waiting for their inevitable destruction
>pull out because of politics before they take the castles
>Empire collapses before they come back because of politics
>later raids by one of the Mongol rump-states get beaten back
>"Clearly the Mongol barbarians could not handle Europe's mighty impenetrable fortresses"

kek

Japan was under European influence, as was Korea.
also liberia is literally an american colony

Japan was controlled by Americans during the occupation.

Why not just go around the castle?

Then you get faggots raiding your back lines.

Although, Mongols didn't really have supply lines. Which is what made them so effective in the first place.

Because then you leave a dagger at your back

Except the Mongols took no stone castles in their conquest of Hungary.

inb4
>Hurrr they didn't have time they were gonna do it.

Speculation friend.

/thread

it's a meme, you dip

why do you talk like you was a warlord you autistic fucker

>sure you can get some peasants. but you cant be everywhere at once, most civilians will flee in time.
Then I don't have to spend much time there.

>What about the second invasion of hungary?
Overconfidence and a poor grasp of castle strategy. The Mongols fielded a huge force so they didn't think defeat was really a possibility, but a huge army just means scorched Earth is that much more effective.

Ideally they would would have used well timed feint offensives to disrupt agriculture around a large area. The peasants who run in fear aren't working the fields and any fields they didn't harvest before you arrived and therefore burnt hurts the defenders more than you in the long run if you are willing and able to retreat at as soon as it is apparent the defenders properly implemented castle defense strategy.

That said, Hungary didn't just have castles. They had well trained and armed mounted units, more so than a lot of Europe. Those feints don't mean much if your commanders are incompetent and just get run down by Hungarian knights who are just as mobile as your forces.

So I'll yield this point. There isn't much Mongols could do against properly implemented caste defense strategies negating large invasions AND well trained and armed defending mounted units negating the advantages of Mongol mobility. Well trained mounted units are OP and agriculturalists across the fucking whole of Eurasia fell to the Mongols primarily because they didn't want to waste a metric fucktonne of food feeding generations of thousands of warhorses.

Because .

Veeky Forums has a lot faggots that apparently majored in history yet know fuck all about the capabilities of the Mongols. Mongols would have grounded down Europe to a paste if politics didn't play a role in the European campaign. Just look at how far the Mongol penetrated Europe in the first invasion which was a unified Mongol empire invasion.

Europes only advantage against the Mongols in contrast to China was not fortifications, but being more militarized due to all of the feudal independent states and realms.

worked out so well for Napoleon and Hitler, am I right?

Not really comparable, senpai.

>No you dumb fucking retard. There was a state in Iran that consisted of literally nothing but a series of mountaintop castles, which managed to hold out against the hostile Seljuk empire despite being within their borders. The Mongols completely destroyed them.
source?

>>Hurrr they didn't have time they were gonna do it.
They did it everywhere else. There's absolutely no reason to think they wouldn't do it in Hungary.

inb4
>Hurrr they were never going to do it
Speculation friend.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari_Ismaili_state

The reason Mongols managed to conquer so much of the known world was because of their mobility.
Their mounted soldiers could evade enemy armies and strike soft targets like civilians, cities and supplies.
Castles, however, force you to slow down and siege, giving the enemy army the opportunity to attack sieging force, thus removing the greatest advantage of mongols

Sure it is
>enemy retreats before you and salts the earth
>you have nothing to feed your army with

This is even worse in the Mongols' case since every man had 3 horses with him, so you have to both find food for your riders as well as fiddler for the horses

because everybody else had castles inferiour to europeans

*fodder for your horses

>Esztergom
And the countless fortified estates along the way.

To the point that King Bela IV was known as the Builder. As in "the guy who cleaned up after the Mongols."

only worked because their ruler was a pussy who dismantled his fortifications in hope to appease mongols (who attacked anyway)

>even serbia beat the mongols

mongolcucks on suicide watch

/thread.
It should also be noted that the force used in Hungary was just for fucking scouting.

Do you have any proof that the Mongols couldn't have taken it anyway? The Mongols took Alamut by bombarding it with trebuchets, I doubt a few extra towers would have made any difference. The fact that the Ismailis went so far to appease the Mongols shows that they knew they coulnd't win either way.

That's why you have to be willing and able to retreat should the defenders properly implement castle strategy, and rely on feint offensives to get the enemy to disrupt their own agriculture for you over the widest area possible.

That said, Hungary didn't just have castles. They had a lot of great mounted knights, more so than much of the rest of Europe. With castles negating large Mongol armies and Hungarian knights matching and therefore negating Mongol mobility, there wasn't much the Mongols could do. They COULD have constantly disrupted agriculture with feint offensives, killing the peasants when possible, and letting Hungarians burn their own land for you in anticipation of invasions over decades. Without the food surplus to to stock the castles and feed the knights' thousands of horses eventually Hungary would weaken and fall. But where is the gold and glory in killing peasants and scaring enemy soldiers into their castles over the course of one's entire life? Mongols aren't machines. They still need substantial victories to keep soldiers faith in their Khan high.

>It should also be noted that the force used in Hungary was just for fucking scouting.
Nah, you're thinking of the first invasion of Russia. The Hungary campaign was a full-scale invasion.

On the other hand, the entire invasion of Poland was just a diversion.

>up to 80,000 men
>just a scouting division
We know that they outnumbered the hungarians though

probably because mongols conquered rest of persia, they would have starved out the nizari state eventually