Can Christians ever admit that the bible can be wrong instead of being le metaphors?

I agree there is nothing wise in the Bible.

Catholics have no pretense of being biblical literalists, so this isn't a problem. Theologians and scholars are also well-educated in the syncretic and Jewish origins of their holy texts, but maintain the value of the NT anyway for moral reasons. Their argument for the retroactive importance of EVERYTHING else 100% hinges on the literal truth of Christ's resurrection, which is supported by the testimonies of Christians who supposedly maintained their beliefs even when they ought to have discarded them, for instance under the threat of torture by non-Christians. After all, why would they lie about something like that?

Any other arguments are basically dispensable.
>t. "catholic"

Facts are born out of metaphors.
Yes or no?
The ideas don't grow on or out of thin air, they're built up by smaller facts to become something more.
Everything in the bible is a possible eventuality given the possibility of a true singularity capable of many things.

Think deeper, user.
Great point A to point D inventions weren't made by just looking at B, but by hypothesizing the possibility of C.

holy shit this is good bait

Spoken like a true autist

You got that switched around. Children think in more concrete ways and their thinking becomes more abstract as they mature.

If you can't get into symbolic thinking you might be autistic or otherwise mentally deficient.

Spoken like a good goy. Don't forget to tithe to your tax-exempt priest this Sunday!

Everything in the bible is true.

That doesn't mean that everything in the bible is literal. Attention for genre must be noted. Nobody reads the wisdom books and runs off shouting "Hey everyone, the bible supports nihilism!" Please read Origen, if you think that systematic analysis of the scriptures is somehow an Augustinian/Thomist meme.

Literally lol'd

Thanks user

>I'm an autist with no life experience
>h-heh, th-there's no wisdom in sacred texts h-heh

Good goy, stay a sheltered little meme drone

>Of course Christians accept that the bible is "wrong".

Tell that to the retarded literalists who infest certain places, like the states.

I know #notallchristians but seriously.

>no, YOU'RE deceived by the Jews

good discourse

Maybe if you retards stopped repeating the same edgy teenage atheist bullshit I've been readding for 10 years you'd get actually insightful and interesting discussion instead of children who never even been in a fight talking about what is or isn't wisdom and metaphor

You don't even have to believe the Bible is true to know that there is wisdom to be found in it. If anything, it provides good life lessons and how to live a virtuous life.

>dont eat shellfish
>cut part of your penis off
>kill people who work on sunday
So much wise. Very wisdom.

epic, just epic

Most of it is just the national history of a middle eastern tribe that would be insignificant and obscure were it not for Christianity.

People think of the Bible as this book full of philosophy and moral judgements but really it's mostly political drama, ritual guidelines, and Yahweh getting angry about stuff

>MUH METAPHORS are enough to safely ignore Christianity.

This. Whenever anything is proven false, they say it's just metaphor. Which means there is nothing that would make them accept any part of it is wrong. Which means their belief has withstood no scrutiny whatsoever, and so is worth nothing.

At least hide the fact that you're from Reddit next time.

Where's the janny when you need him

reddit is currently undergoing an anti-atheist backlash and has been for a while because of the /r/atheism association

more 'le tip fedora' comments than here

You sure refuted his arguments. Good job I'm now a Christian.

>pasting 3 memes from a thousand page text
>an "argument"

dumb shit

So what if I have been in a fight? Can I talk about what is wisdom or a metaphor?

Though I personally can see a lot of wisdom in the Bible (currently reading it, up to Numbers so far), I just think it's mostly wisdom that only makes sense when viewed in the cultural and material conditions it was written in.

>"Vanity! All is vanity!"

read some ecclesiastes or job you utter utter pleb

I'll get to it, God damn, man. It's a dense book and I'm reading it in order. I already said there's wisdom in it, you just have to frame it in the context it came from.

Why do you think there are so many atheists in Europe? A lot of them did. Other than them and some East Asians, its pretty much everyone else that clings to their religions.

>They have no way to prove that the whole "son of god" thing is literal and not a metaphor, and without this they have no religion.

Peter, and the Apostles, and Paul, all without question went out of their way to abandon their homes and families and nearly all to a one died horrific and painful deaths. Their witness is proof enough of Christ's divinity.

Strength of belief !=accuracy of belief. Unless you're prepared to admit that the mass suicide of the Heaven's gate cult proves THEIR beliefs.

And buddhist monks literally set themselves on fire as a declaration of their faith.

The story is genesis is similar to other culture meaning SOMETHING in all of those stories is true.

Also, Christ says the Kingdom of Heaven is within us, and that is it scattered amongst us and we do not see it.

So if Heaven translates to Stone as OP says, perhaps a Philosopher's Stone is the Gem to Eternal Life.

Virtuous in what sense? At least the Greeks provided reasons to live a certain way. The Jews didn't even bother, it was just to follow God's will. If you don't believe in that God it's an exercise in pointlessness.

A cult leader telling you to die peacefully with him is leagues different than being put to death brutally. Especially when these cases are literally "look all you have to do is say he wasn't messiah and you're free to go. No? Ok then I guess it's boiling oil for you."

*tips fedora*

I've read the whole thing. After Genesis it get boring for a while. Especially the genealogies. After that it gets good again. Especially Ecclesiastes psalms proverbs

>FAITH
>BEFORE
>UNDERSTANDING
St. Augustine

Stop trying to understand something that is impossible from your subjective perception.

>The story is genesis is similar to other culture meaning SOMETHING in all of those stories is true.

Not really, aside from the evident fact that the Universe has an origin in time. But many cultures don;t have a creation myth at all, considering the universe to have always existed, or considering the universe to have been shaped from pre-existing material rather than created (this is fact is the position in Genesis).

>Also, Christ says the Kingdom of Heaven is within us, and that is it scattered amongst us and we do not see it.

Maybe it's a metaphor for friendship :^)

>stop trying to think, your betters have already settled this matter, just pay your tithes and trust in "faith".

He also asked them to cut off their dicks beforehand, so you know, still very unpleasant. You're just moving the goalposts besides. There's plenty of Muslims, Mormons, Jews, etc who faced the exact same persecution and also died for their cause.

Not to mention the pagan prophet Empedocles who lept into an active volcano in order to prove his divinity. Christians are far from the only people willing to die for their ideas.

Chastity and selflessness are virtuous concepts. Abstinence from addiction, both of substance and of flesh, make for stronger willed individuals. Peacemaking, forgiveness, brotherhood, and kindness naturally lead to harmonious communities.

Obedience to a higher authority out of free will choice is the highest respect and love one can give. To do so out of faith is a perfect love. To never impose one's will on another is a mark of righteousness. Christian morals are king because they save you, your community, and your neighboring communities from pain and violence. It's unfortunate that other non-christian ideologies swoop in, allowing rape and pillage and murder, and destroy true christian communities, like the Waldenses for example.

There are no goyim in Christianity. No kaffir or katakumens. We are all one in Christ Jesus. It's sad that people view the religion as a series of "thou shalt nots" like it's trying to impose a regime on you. Most of the sins are forbidden because they are actions that have tremendously damaging effects on communities. Think of how much better the world would be if all men and women were virgins until marriage, and you only chose partners based on true long-term compatibility and purposes of starting a family. If greed did not dominate the world. Christianity is wisdom.

>Think of how much better the world would be if all men and women were virgins until marriage, and you only chose partners based on true long-term compatibility and purposes of starting a family.

And here we see the creeping insecurity of this poster. Yes, I'm sure the world would be so much better if the sexual revolution hadn't ruined your chances of getting a GF. HAW HAW HAW.

The gospels are written in the form of Greco-Roman biographies, and therefore should be interpreted literally unless given good reason not to (such as when Christ engages people with parables). Jesus Christ that was difficult to determine.

constantine is a grill though

>Chastity

"Go forth and multiply"

>Obedience to a higher authority out of free will choice is the highest respect and love one can give.

This is the "virtue" of a slave.

>There are no goyim in Christianity. No kaffir or katakumens

Tell that to the Cathar's snapped necks.

Why does everyone take OT context for modern context.

When God appears to you daily, and gives you commands, you should probably do them. The ancient israelites were put through harder tests because faith in whether or not God exists was never a challenge for them. They didn't have to procure faith in that way. They knew he existed. But they knew other gods (demons) existed as well, and more often than not, they chose to worship the pagan gods. This was their failure of faith, they had faith in the wrong virtues.

Don't you think this would annoy God?

You don't know anything about the circumstances of the deaths of any of the apostles besides hazy accounts usually written centuries later.

Assuming they were even actually martyred in the first place, we have no way of knowing what the charges they were brought up on were. If they were arrested for something like rabble-rousing then denying Christ wouldn't have saved them anyway.

For all we know they DID deny Christ. Or maybe they didn't. That's the thing when all you have are stories.

>"Go forth and multiply"
A blessing as this is something given also to animals
>This is the "virtue" of a slave.
Not an argument
>Tell that to the Cathar's snapped necks.
Maybe the Cathars shouldn't have incited a foreign king to invade France

>therefore should be interpreted literally

Except we know they were written generations after Jesus' time by people who never even met him. They may present themselves as literal but that's largely because the Church burned all the more obviously mythological and esoteric gospels when they decided what part of God's Word to preserve and what to consign to oblivion. Look at the Hag Nammedi gospels or the Gospel of Thomas, these are clearly not literal documents.

>Obedience to a higher authority out of free will choice is the highest respect and love one can give.

Yeah maybe, my point was that the poster insisted that the bible is a good moral guide independent of belief in YHWH though so you would be obeying something you didn't even believe in, stupid and pointless.

There are some solid reasons for following Christian and Jewish morality but those reasons are often independent of the bible. Normally they are justified with earthly (Jewish) or heavenly (Christian) rewards, rather than say, what Epicurus wrote about. Which were thoroughly reasoned arguments to live in a moderate and joyful way and why other methods of living are ultimately bad for you. There are premises, arguments, and conclusions and this is the sort of thing that's often missing from scripture. So they wouldn't really appeal to someone who didn't buy the supernatural component.

Did you respond to the wrong post comrade

>Don't you think this would annoy God?

No, because he's omniscient and knew before the beginning of time that this would happen?

>why should we even interpret the gospels literally if they think this other book is a metaphorical account lol
>because the gospels were written in a genre that should be read literally
>YEAH BUT THESE OTHER BOOKS....
kys

So you read them literally even tho you know they can't possibly be what they claim to be? Why? This seems perverse.

Go back to whatever special ed class you crawled out of shitposter.

I have had a lot of premarital sex. It's not something I'm insecure about, it's rather a pain I've become familiar with.

I have broken some girl's hearts because I would say anything just to sleep with them. I would even convince myself that I wanted to be with them, even though part of me knew I'd probably leave them. And once the novelty of sex wears off, you're not left with much. You start looking for a way out because it's a relationship that can never last.

Now, some of these girls really got hurt. Sex affects women differently than men. When someone takes your virginity, that's a big deal to a lot of women. By disregarding this simple truth of nature ni the name of personal self-gratification, you risk the chance of ruining that person's ability to love forever. That is so much more tremendously sad and damaging than all the sex was worth. It's not even comparable.

I did this for a while, until I fell in love myself. I finally met a girl I loved more than anyone in the world. I had never been jealous over any of my prior GFs, but this one relationship was my whole world. And you know what? She was seriously screwed up from an earlier relationship in youth. A guy came along, said he loved her, fucked her for a while, and left. It was like she could never trust again. It didn't permeate our relationship, but her inability to truly love anyone was a sad truth I had to deal with. Our relationship only lasted two years.

Sex is a powerful thing, user. You might not think so, because it's just a bit of fun, but when you see the damaging effect it can have on both yourself and people you become involved with, you start to feel more responsible about it.

Think of how many people get together based solely on physical attraction, only to have a kid they don't want. Think of how much pain this child will suffer. Is it worth the sex? Is sex worth more than potentially destroying someone? You have to think about stuff like this.

tumblr is that way

>This is the "virtue" of a slave.

Only because your understanding of obedience has a negative bias. Obedience is a good quality when the master is kind and just. Why wouldn't you obey such a man?

Disobedience to a perfect, peaceful and just being is like saying "i don't like how you run things", which is another way of saying "i don't like peace and justice unless I'M in charge!"

Humility, user.

You do realize that fiction is a thing, right? Just because the gospels claim to be eyewitness accounts doesn't magically make that true, and given that we know they were written generations after Jesus to read them literally seems positively obtuse. It's like reading Harry Potter and then going on a quest to find Hogwarts.

Why would god need my obedience? The only person who benefits from suhc a twisted "virtue" is the lying priest lining his nest with your gullible shekels, the all-powerful and omni-prescient creator of the universe has no more need for you obedience than he has for you permission to create.

Moral of the story is: the Jews were responsible.

And yet if the Jews hadn't had him killed, his mission would have been a failure and your religion wouldn't exist. Remind me why you hate them?

>I have had a lot of premarital sex. It's not something I'm insecure about, it's rather a pain I've become familiar with.

I'll buy that for a dollar!

>Buddha says: "Do not flatter your benefactor!". Let one repeat this saying in a Christian church : it immediately purifies the air of everything Christian.

t. fruit loving mustache man

they hate God and worship Satan

>Now, some of these girls really got hurt. Sex affects women differently than men. When someone takes your virginity, that's a big deal to a lot of women. By disregarding this simple truth of nature ni the name of personal self-gratification, you risk the chance of ruining that person's ability to love forever. That is so much more tremendously sad and damaging than all the sex was worth. It's not even comparable.

Yeah, that's entirely a product of a society which pushed Judeo-Christian standards of purity on them.

>Sex is a powerful thing, user. You might not think so, because it's just a bit of fun, but when you see the damaging effect it can have on both yourself and people you become involved with, you start to feel more responsible about it.

Dude, the same can be said of all social behaviours.

>Think of how many people get together based solely on physical attraction, only to have a kid they don't want.

Birth control and abortion both exist, and have proven more effective in minimizing this than your ideals.

Not according to their holy book they don't. And they claim they got this book from the same god Christians worship.

Here, let me explain:

>God wants to create children
>God wants none of his children to hurt
>God laws out a set of laws to prevent hurt
>God wants you to obey these laws so no one is hurt
>God wants you to have free will

There you go, bub. You can't make a being that is both inherently good yet has free will. The very definition of free will entails that it might choose evil. You can't permit evil things, because evil things hurt your other children. So you tell your children—"anyone who does these things is not welcome in my kingdom", and you're not FORCING them to obey, you're just signalling to them that those actions are not allowed, and that if they don't want to comply, they don't have to, but that means they will die. Because he is the only reason you live in the first place.

God doesn't want you to obey because he's an authoritarian. He wants you to obey because he loves you, and these precepts will give you a happy life. And by accepting God's wisdom, you are acknowledging back to God that you love Him, and what He stand for.

It's not hard.

And they say the same thing about you (more or less).

God's love is that of a twisted, abusive drunk.

But this is pure hogwash, god is all-powerful and omniscient, he knew before time who would break his rules, and yet chose to create those people in such a way that they broke his laws anyway. If god had rules for us, they would be as immutable as the laws of physics, because anything less would be unworthy of an infinitely powerful creator.

If all you can do with my honest confession is mock me, I'm not sure what more to tell you.

Sex has the potential for spiritual murder. I have never been the same since I lost my old girlfriend. It's a pain that will never go away. Once you become hurt like that, you don't want to do the same to anyone else.

Someone being in love with you yet not being able to return that love is a horrible, guilty feeling that never really washes off.

I'm just saying. I've seen it hurt people. It's wise to think of the repercussions before placing sexual gratification at the top of your own personal value system.

>Sex has the potential for spiritual murder.

Prove it.

>I have never been the same since I lost my old girlfriend. It's a pain that will never go away. Once you become hurt like that, you don't want to do the same to anyone else.

See a therapist.

>Someone being in love with you yet not being able to return that love is a horrible, guilty feeling that never really washes off.

They should do likewise.

>I'm just saying. I've seen it hurt people. It's wise to think of the repercussions before placing sexual gratification at the top of your own personal value system.

It's not at the top of my value system. I just don't demonize it, and I certainly don't act shocked that a society which has extensively demonized it occasionally produces people with intimacy issues.

>Yeah, that's entirely a product of a society which pushed Judeo-Christian standards of purity on them.

Source?

>Dude, the same can be said of all social behaviours.

Not all social behaviors lead to societal collapse.

>Birth control and abortion both exist, and have proven more effective in minimizing this than your ideals.

Birth control and abortion don't make for good relationships. Sex based relationships lead to pain more often than not from my observation. Family based societies tend to skew happier, according to sociological studies.

People who want to live life their own way without regard for the pain they might cause others or themselves—that's all this is. People who base their lives around sex seem sad to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but I pass no judgment. I just don't think it's a wise value to hold so dearly.

It's like a teenager telling a parent that there is no way they'll get in accident even though they're driving 80mph. Sex is risky, that's all I'm saying.

>Not all social behaviors lead to societal collapse.

SOCIETAL COLLAPSE?! HAW HAW HAW.

Oh wow, I think need to go somewhere else before my sides burst irreperably.

hi jack chick

>do these things because they will make you incredibly happy
>don't do these things because it will make everyone incredibly sad
>trust me I am like a billion times smarter than you
>no seriously any deviation will wreck your shit and everyone else's shit
>please why won't you listen

Twisted!

But if in the beggining (time) God created the heavens (space) and Earth (matter)Now and then the creation of Adam (mankind)

So the allegories are precious

Aside from friendship outside, the heart within.

>But if in the beggining (time) God created the heavens (space) and Earth (matter)Now and then the creation of Adam (mankind)

The actual origins of the universe don;t really resemble the Genesis account, and Yahweh doesn't actually create a universe, his face moves across the "waters" before he starts his work, he is a demiurge at best.

>Prove it.

You want me to prove that having your heart broken beyond repair is soul crushing and has the potential to be life changing?

My best friend was with a girl for seven years. He worked on a farm and was ready to settle down. She left him. He has been miserable for five years now, currently lives in Brooklyn working a software job he despises, in a place he despises, with people he despises.

He can't farm anymore, a job he loved, because it rips his very heart out to return to that way of life, because that chapter of his life is when he lost the one woman he loved. Why did she leave? She wanted to "find herself" and became a hippie. Now she lives in a tree and has apparently gone batshit insane.

>See a therapist.

I don't need one. I have Jesus Christ. I play music and talk to people about letting go of their hatred. Living for others instead of living for the self. I'm very happy, but thank you for your concern.

>They should do likewise.

Not sure what this means.

>It's not at the top of my value system. I just don't demonize it, and I certainly don't act shocked that a society which has extensively demonized it occasionally produces people with intimacy issues.

I'm not demonizing it either, that's what you don't understand. I don't think God's intention was "never sin!" He knows full well people are going to sin. I don't think yelling at young people and overstressing sexual sins is healthy. But that doesn't mean we should ignore how incredibly volatile and life-changing sex can be. It can get us into some serious trouble, is all I'm saying.

>cheapening the very nature of creation for hedonistic and temporary purposes
Yes, goyim. Silly goyim.

The age of decadence is often marked by excess sexual liberation and is a precursor to societal collapse...not sure what you're on about m8.

Genesis isn't an account of the origin of the universe. It's an account of the origin of man.

Angels held dominion over the earth before man. Read the book of Enoch.

Fuck off retard

Source is God, and the origin of Time Space and Matter is the Creation of the Universe. That is what everything is made up of.

And Mankind, even if "Yhwh is Demiurge", is still and extension of original Creation would originally stem from Source and all the events prior to the Big Bang.

You have to see allegorically as much as literal

-

I'd rather be a loyal slave than a treacherous freedman.

This is even the case in Early Christianity. Even the so called literalism of Early Christian exegesis of Scripture actually accommodates allegoricalism!

How's that following those usury rules coming along?

bait