Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization...

>TMW you realise all the names are not European sounding at all and were not European
>TMW you realise the ottoman empire invaded greece, Romania, Hungary (really wealthy in medieval times?) in the 13th - 15th century.

Since the "Islamic Golden age" had ended by the mid 13th century, your main point is completely invalid.

>Islam = destroyer of culture and science

Unfair, since a lot of art, such as flemenco for example, was inspired by Moorish music. (demi-semi tonal singing + improv)
Also: >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

Are you reffering to the enlightenment or modern science in "biggest revolution"? If it's the enlightenment, i'd disagree and say modern scientific revolution was bigger, but also point out that many of the European scientists used a lot of what the Muslims had established earlier in the millenia (small pox inoculation for example).
If you were talking about modern science, I completely agree with you because the middle east was and is a fucking dump right now.

The Islamic Golden age basically ended with the Mongols sacking Baghdad in 1258, ending the Abbasid caliphate and destroying anything of value in the city. It was said that the Euphrates went blue/black from all the ink from the great library there. THe Islamic world never really recovered from that, unfortunatly for me, you, Europe and them.

>spain was a backwater shithole during the visigoth
Spain was the second wealthiest region in western Europe after Italy.

Did Moorish Spain even exist in the same capacity after Almoravids and Almohads?

No.There was an 80 years old caliphate and then 60 years of Taifas.Nietzsche was just an illiterate moron

>Spain was the second wealthiest region in western Europe after Italy.

When? Also, source?

>Islam presents a traditional completeness, since the shariah and the sunna, that is, the exoteric law and tradition, have their complement not in vague mysticism, but in full-fledged initiatory organizations (turuq) that are categorized by an esoteric teaching (tawil) and by the metaphysical doctrine of the Supreme Identity (tawhid). In these organizations, and in general in the shia, the recurrent notions of the masum, of the double perogative of the isma (doctrinal infallibility), and of the impossibility of being stained by any sin (which is the perogative of the leaders, the visible and invisible Imams and the mujtahid), lead back to the line of an unbroken race shaped by a tradition at a higher level than both Judaism and the religious beliefs that conquered the West.

What could he possibly meant by this?

mmh...really makes you think...
guess I am now a #shariamissile

Hmmm...

Was it autism?

what is with 19th century europoors and islam fetishism

proper science? You mean the Galileu trial?
Or how about it was illegal to perform authopsies and see what the human body looked like.

oh and btw. Stirner was also a useless faggot

I don't know why /pol/ hates Muslims but they love Hitler/Christianity.

Nazism and Christianity are completely incompatible, but you can interpret a lot of the Quran to consolidate Nazism.

There's actually a lot of anti-Christians on /pol/ who are either Pagan or get mistaken for le Pagans by some simpleton Christfags because they don't like Jebus.

Incompatible? kek. The catholic church is like a chameleon. They morph and chang to please who ever is in power. They hate who they have to hate, they suck the dick from who's dick must be sucked.
How could they have survived this long if they weren't such a cancer?

Lots of westerners, and this is especially evident in Nietzsche, had a romanticized view of Islam in the 19th and first half of the 20th century that was based more on fiction works like The Tailsman than historical works by actual historians. Very similar to the fascination with Buddhism among white people today, and vice versa also why Christian missionaries in East Asia had so much success. They didn't know anything about it, it was just exotic and therefore interesting to them. Didn't help that Britain and France, and later Germany, made alliances with the Ottomans during this time and promoted an image their Muslim allies as "noble savages" while at the same time Christians are being massacred under Islamic rule. Notice how this fascination with Islam took place entirely in western Europe where no one had actually seen a Muslim in their entire life; the myth of Islamic tolerance was certainly unheard of in eastern Europe. You can be certain that if these western Europeans were alive today, they wouldn't say this.

will Nietzsche start to be discredited in our lifetimes?

>hurr the 19th century sucks compared to the Moors muh past muslim paradise they wuz everything

>Nazism and Christianity are completely incompatible

You need to rewatch The Greatest Story Never Told

youtube.com/watch?v=Mqs09Xjj4q0

Hardly. Most of his thinking has just become part of common thought. What will more likely happen is it will be thought that his views on Islam were based on sketchy reports with limited information.

Fags are still butthurt at Christianity for being the only religion that condemned pederasty.

That's why they like Greek and Muslim cultures so much.

This is spot on. Nietzsche didn't actually know much about Islamic principles and movements like Wahhabism were totally foreign to him. Present day Saudi Arabia would probably disgust him fully.

>You mean the Galileu trial?
You are misinformed. Galileo was arrested for showimg a false model as a fact and insulting the Pope.
> Or how about it was illegal to perform authopsies and see what the human body looked like.
The same way that animal experiments are banned in europe for cosmetics. They just thought that it was spooky and unethical.

>Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633, "for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the sun is the center of the world", against the 1616 condemnation, since "it was decided at the Holy Congregation [...] on 25 Feb 1616 that [...] the Holy Office would give you an injunction to abandon this doctrine, not to teach it to others, not to defend it, and not to treat of it; and that if you did not acquiesce in this injunction, you should be imprisoned".[48]

>Galileo was interrogated while threatened with physical torture.[43] A panel of theologians, consisting of Melchior Inchofer, Agostino Oreggi and Zaccaria Pasqualigo, reported on the Dialogue. Their opinions were strongly argued in favour of the view that the Dialogue taught the Copernican theory.[49]

>Galileo was found guilty, and the sentence of the Inquisition, issued on 22 June 1633,[50] was in three essential parts:

>Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the center of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse, and detest" those opinions.[51]

>"There is neither Jew nor greek, slave nor freeman, man or woman; we are all one in Christ".
This is heavily implying that race, gender and class are all man made, falsities.

>"Put down your sword, for those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword", Jesus then goes on to say something like "don't you think i could summon a whole legion of angels if i wanted to"

This is clearly saying that pacifism is part of the way, the truth and the light. Jesus, not once, EVER justified the use of violence to solve problems. He instead condemned it.

The new testament is, with exception to what is written by Paul, promoting modern liberal values.

THe Christians who supported even so much as fighting the war (on either side) were bad Christians. The Christians in Germany who supported the NAZI regime were barely Christian at all.

Saying it doesn't make it so, user.

I'm personally not a Christian, and I think pacifism is pretty unrealistic, but i'd rather be a christcuck than a stormfag.

It's always amusing to see modern pagans call Christians or whatnot stupid. Even Hitler used to laugh at Himmler for his pagan antics.

They literally just decided they'd become neo pagans and believe all of it for the sake of nationalism - unironically.

Fucking nutcases.

Yes. Incompatible and completely so. You're completely right about the Catholics though, but saying you're something doesn't make it so.

American post

Neopagans are just a bunch of LARP fags, they aren't that common on the far right.

Oh come on, as if many of the so called Christians on /pol/ aren't LARPing as crusaders as well.

>Liberal institutions cease to be liberal as soon as they are attained: later on, there are no worse and no more thorough injurers of freedom than liberal institutions. Their effects are known well enough: they undermine the will to power; they level mountain and valley, and call that morality; they make men small, cowardly, and hedonistic — every time it is the herd animal that triumphs with them. Liberalism: in other words, herd animalization.

What did he mean by this? Really makes you think...

Christianity bad. Moor lyf gud.

nigger are you absolutely dumb. We can thank the Arabs for keeping all the classicals alive and translating them

Spot on.

>all the classicals alive and translating them
The biggest school of translation was in Toledo and was opened by a christian king.And Byzantium was the center of knowledge in the world and was christian.Muslims are barbaric and theri ony contribution has been plunder and raping.

True.
Let's not forge that Germans in the late 1800s were also incredibly jealous of the colonial gains of the French/British in Muslim lands...Anything to spite the French/British, the Germans would do. Example: portraying the French/British as unjust conquerors of Muslims

Lets not forget it's the French/British fault Muslim lands still existed after the early 1800s.

As if that makes it any different, or any better.

His trial was still over heretical science, and the inquisition had been getting twitchy about it since at at the latest 1615.

Wahhabism was twice crushed by Ottomans when Nietzche was alive. Wahhabism only really took off after WW1.

If he hated Christianity for being a Jewish offshoot, why didn't he also hate Islam?

Pol alert. Away pls

Pol. Away. Wrong board. No need to thanky ;》

His definition of Christianity appears to stem from man and in the quote he automatically assumes as if Moorish culture would forever be tolerant of those outside their culture. As if in the event, that the moors were hungry and their counterpart not, would their "lavish" culture exist let alone remain to themselves as opposed to lashing out in hunger?

This is the problem with being a humanist and arrogant. You ignore reality. And you're only source of knowledge and understanding comes from what you see on the surface and the ONLY thing that you can see on the surface, is man and man's corruption of what would otherwise be good.

The world is sick, unable to compete with the insatiable appetite that resides in the flesh. True Christianity is more realistic than these accusations that are being presented in OP's quote, simply because it thoroughly addresses the nature of the world and the men who reside in it.

So animal testing is ok? I mean useless things ofc like cosmetics... its ok to test it on living beings?

> You can be certain that if these western Europeans were alive today, they wouldn't say this.

Retarded and confirmed for ignorant of history. He was describing Islam as it was then and not how it is now.

>If these anons were alive during the roman empire they wouldn't say anything positive about western Europe.

>/pol/ tries to falsify history again

Nietzsche was the predecessor of the modern liberal cuck.

>The world is sick, unable to compete with the insatiable appetite that resides in the flesh. True Christianity is more realistic than these accusations that are being presented in OP's quote, simply because it thoroughly addresses the nature of the world and the men who reside in it.

You mean how it completely ignores studies such as psychology, sociology, and neurology when they don't support its doctrines?

Studies such as what user?

Yeah I know that Wahhabism was around within his lifetime but he had no way of knowing about it. The ideology itself has also shifted radically in the Islamic world today.

well he's right, what seems to be the problem OP?

What was Anatolia and the Balkans? Then look at Spain post-Reconquista- it became a world empire with numerous contributions to art and science.

>American middle-upper class freshman hailing from a conservative family, some but still laughably marginal brawn and no brains, the post

(you)

Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever seen anyone steal anything? Have you ever told a lie or seen anyone else tell a lie?

Do you even understand how a lie or stealing can be used as techniques to acquire various forms of leverage over another person?

Do you think you can design a pill or medicine that could eliminate lying or stealing for leverage and personal gain? Are these neurological disorders that can be cured with medicine?

Lol have you ever worked in sales?

Christianity, the word of the "alleged" Creator of all things, I say alleged because I know I'm talking to a critic, but the word of God is far more realistic about the human condition than any fantasy fueled by arrogance in order to create delusion.

There is no science that can save people, the sciences are at the mercy of the man's intention. Science isn't going to prevent the temptation to hold leverage over another for personal gain. If anything...the sciences will be used as a more resourceful way to hold leverage over men. You can cover more ground with science. Science is fascinating and awesome, but all it does it magnify what already exists to further understand the nature.

But is that where you're going with this? That the study of psychology, sociology, and neurology, will one day produce an answer to take away mans free will to do as he pleases? That these studies will offer more insight into the human condition?

>His definition of Christianity appears to stem from man
That's because Nietzsche wasn't concerned with some "pure" or perfect from of Christianity. The real effects it had on people and cultures were all that mattered to him.

You also seem to be making the mistake of thinking he sought some sort of perfect world without conflict, nothing could be more laughable to him. And your assertion that our worldly desires being unending make us "sick" is a life-denying concept that he fully rejects.

Of course Christianity addresses our existence, all religions and philosophies do. The Christian diagnoses however, that this world and our nature is fundamentally ill and we must seek a different, higher realm, that's exactly what he considered bad values.

Anyway, Nietzsche had a lot more to say about Christianity and his own ideas than what's contained in that quote. I would agree that it's a somewhat naive look back on the Moorish world, however much better it was than the Christian one that returned. Thankfully it's nowhere near the center of his ideas.

>That's because Nietzsche wasn't concerned with some "pure" or perfect from of Christianity. The real effects it had on people and cultures were all that mattered to him.

That's what I was saying. It's like American Christianity today; all about money and prosperity. But I can distinguish between product.

But the problem with this technique of observation though, is that you're condemning the art of carpentry instead of the carpenter. If your table came out with a uneven leg, you don't blame carpentry, you go to the one practicing carpentry.

So It's baseless accusations. It's a convenient accusation. Everyone loves convenience. Everyone loves to be a critic.

That's not say he wasn't accurate in his description of the crusades though, its just he got carried away by his own accusation to the realm of the irrational...the irrational and the abandonment of thorough investigation.

Christianity didn't address those issues but institutionalize do them, so that the can occur in grand scale under the cover of holiness. commit sins in the name of Christianity and aim your nature at the enemies of Christianity.

Yeah I should have been more clear about what I was saying. The effects it had in history and on modern Europe were more important to him, but it's not like he didn't attack the core principles and while he had less of a problem with Jesus himself, he still had a problem with Jesus. Going so far as to say that the only character worthy of praise in the gospels was Pilate.

If you're interested you should read The Anti-Christ for his real analysis on Christianity along with other aspects of modernism like science worship. Summary posts on Veeky Forums will always misrepresent and simplify, even among the well-intentioned.

No it doesn't user, sin is sin, pretty much no matter why you do it.

Also..

>And your assertion that our worldly desires being unending make us "sick" is a life-denying concept that he fully rejects.

Yet, this is exactly why not just the crusades took place, but general exploitation for personal gain. Worldly desire. Unbridled desire. Hate to break it to you, but some men, they just cant help themselves. Also, it's not because of Christianity...lol or alcohol.

But yeah I've taken a brief look at some text from Nietzsche a few weeks ago, he's no doubt insightful, but over all I don't think he's impervious...

That actually couldn't be further from the truth.

The tactic of approaching your prey with a smile has been utilized probably since the beginning. To approach with a peaceful flag, when murder is your actual intention, that's actually, unfortunately, a common practice in general.

Nietzsche didn't think Christianity caused those things though, just that the crusades were a convenient excuse for plunder.

Yeah, I understand. Seems like the majority of time on here I'm discussing something that was taken out of context.

It's funny you mention Pilate, spent part of my day today reading some documents about his alleged severe guilt in relation to Christ's death. It was immediately wrote off as roman sympathy though, but no one knows for sure.

bump

We can say the same for British Empire in India. Christianity destroyed and turned India into a shithole

he's very obviously referring to the islamic golden age

also most of that quote is shitting on christianity rather than praising islam

No more than for war in general though. It's something often overlooked, but not for the Crusades because there has been a long-term smear campaign against them. Thus it seems like an exception to those ignorant of history.

Veeky Forums's hero Napoleon and his Grand Armee are the biggest plunderers of all time.

Nieztsche was a weak cuck who died from syphilis, he also cried like a baby when he saw a based christian beating a horse, which is pretty amusing when we know he loved to talk shit about the Ubermensch

>Do you think you can design a pill or medicine that could eliminate lying or stealing for leverage and personal gain? Are these neurological disorders that can be cured with medicine?

Not eliminate, but seriously reduce. Understanding matters such as compulsive behaviours, cycles of poverty, personality disorders, etc. can be used to substantially reduce criminality. More effectively than your holy book has been demonstrated to.

>But is that where you're going with this? That the study of psychology, sociology, and neurology, will one day produce an answer to take away mans free will to do as he pleases? That these studies will offer more insight into the human condition?

Are you fucking schizophrenic? They offer more insight into the human condition because they bother to actually study it, rather than assert wildly about it and claim it was the work of God, you stupid, worthless cunt.

>More effectively than your holy book has been demonstrated to.

For proof, look at the long list of corrupt, shithead priests and even popes, who sired countless bastards and used the supposed word of God for their own gain. Christianity did dick shit to stop them.

He says Islam is better than Greece or Rome, that's extremely high praise coming from Nietzsche

>Veeky Forums's hero Napoleon and his Grand Armee are the biggest plunderers of all time.
And he admired Islam. Even in exile, Napoleon praised Mohammed.

Admired is an exaggeration, as Napoleon's views on Islam always are. Islam was founded by a military leader and is a military code disguised as a religion. Napoleon said Islam teaches you to become a willing suicidal soldier. That's it.

He actually began to admire Jesus Christ more while on St. Helena.

"Feels>reals, this also aplies to brown people"

language will unite a standing civilisations society greater than any banner head of religion. i think he missed the point in his own irrelevance in the place of history. a mere conduit to the next point in time.

the sanctified crusades placated the world through that hinge point. it was the most crucial expedition to that point and unified the principality to angloism from extremity to extremity the white empire was established. think hes being sarcasic and ironic. just wants to be relevent. christiandom unified a language; english, and the white social credence. you're gonna shy from that? now? in this day and age? infant cows suckling the teet on the farm...

First and I seriously don't mean any disrespect, but you really don't appear to know why someone would steal or lie or lust for leverage for the purpose of various categories of exploitation. And to be clear here, the human condition I was originally talking about isn't our brief battles of stomach aches, lol fits of diarrhea, or even the 'theory' of chemical imbalances. When I say human condition, I'm talking about oppression, war, and general conflict. I'm talking about general division.

So I mean, if we're in fact even talking about the same thing here,...your answer to cure the world of these specific problems is to remove free will? Only instead of a dictator to do this, to tell people how to act, you want medicine to do it?....That's far more dangerous and frankly a ridiculous proposition.

And second, that book simply addresses the fact that until otherwise is said, men will always be tempted to hold leverage over others, whether that's through lying, theft, murder, or through intimidation. Not only that, but it addresses the fact that this morbid aspect of human behavior is perpetuated simply because people enjoy it.

And that books response to this aspect of humanity? Patience, forgiveness, and love. Because that's essentially the only way for these type of people will ever find legitimate buoyancy or equilibrium. Now I'm not justifying the sick shit people do btw, just validating how realistic God's word is in addressing this aspect of humanity.

I say legitimate buoyancy, because in order to adopt a new way of thinking- You have to believe it. From an engineering perspective, you need concepts to connect to concepts. You just cant shove the answer into place through medicinal usage and expect there to be no dependency, which is slavery. For people to change their mentality, they need to go through every step of the building process. You just don't throw the house at em'...they have to understand how build it.

Now you're just being lazy.

You don't need Christianity to do evil, the evil garbage in this world is already there. Whether you do it behind the trojan horse of a Christian flag, or you do it in secret, does it matter? The problem is that no one knows who the pedophile is, who the murderer is, in most cases they don't even know who they are themselves.

A man could end up finding his wife in bed with another man, never commited a murder before in his life, but end up killing not only his family but himself. He didn't do it because he needed a pill, or because of society, or because of some neurological disorder, he did it out of JEALOUSY. And the only way jealousy could have that effect within someones emotional spectrum, is if they never learn how to handle it. Again, a pill, a shock collar, a shock collar designed to zap your shit anytime you feel jealousy or thoughts of murder, none of that truly fixes anything.

Wisdom and knowledge on the other hand...

>Wisdom and knowledge on the other hand...

Are not found in the Bible.

>A man could end up finding his wife in bed with another man, never commited a murder before in his life, but end up killing not only his family but himself. He didn't do it because he needed a pill, or because of society, or because of some neurological disorder, he did it out of JEALOUSY. And the only way jealousy could have that effect within someones emotional spectrum, is if they never learn how to handle it. Again, a pill, a shock collar, a shock collar designed to zap your shit anytime you feel jealousy or thoughts of murder, none of that truly fixes anything.

Also, on a more reasonable note, teaching him proper emotional coping skills will make him less likely to do that. An emotionally healthy man does not murder his wife for screwing around him, and the bible wont stop an unhinged man from doing so.

While I'm at it, you have a very ignorant and twisted view of psychology. It's not pills and shock collars (though pills are part of it, they're meant to treat disorders other methods wont necessarily help with), in fact one of the primary tools (cognitive behavioural therapy) is entirely about teaching people how to function as human beings, and it's approached as an actual study, unlike the Bible which makes endless wild assertions and lays down a bunch of rules. Do you seriously thinking the authors of the Bible know more about the human condition than scientists whose entire job it is to study it?

its true though

>Are not found in the Bible

James 4:1-2
What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you? You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.

James 3:14
But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.

Proverbs 27-4
Wrath is cruel, anger is overwhelming,
but who can stand before jealousy?

Proverbs 6:34
For jealousy makes a man furious,
and he will not spare when he takes revenge.

Job 5:2
Resentment kills a fool,
and envy slays the simple.

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

Proverbs 4:23
Keep your heart with all vigilance,
for from it flow the springs of life.

Again, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Because I'm not talking about head aches, swellings in the brain, or vitamin deficiencies. My point is that the broader problem within the human condition isnt physical. You're not going to stop people from desiring the benefits of exploitation while enforcing them to exercise just and fair behavior by way of vitamins.

>teaching him proper emotional coping skills will make him less likely to do that

You're automatically assuming that someone who's enjoying something will want to be taught to do otherwise. Not only that, but how is a man who's never shown any sign of mental instability, until put into a specific high stress moment, supposed to know he needs "emotional coping skills" from the get go?

See, this is why these teaching are far more realistic about the human condition, because it fully addresses the fact that there is a problem for one and that the individual himself has a job regarding this.

Proverbs 25:28
A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls.

Napoleon despised islam, and he is clear in his testament :

>Je meurs dans la religion apostolique et romaine, dans le sein de laquelle je suis né, il y a plus de cinquante ans.
>I die in the apostolic and Roman religion, in the bosom of which I was born, there are more than fifty years.

The organic unity (propounded by Plato) of Christianity was/is inherently hierarchical and it's main purpose was to control. Therefore it must weaken or destroy that which is oppose to it and it's hierarchy.

This is why European nobility and the ecclesiastic perpetuate the Christian "way of life", it's a permanent way of remaining in power over others.

This organic unity idea is present even outside Christianity and inside other religions and modern societies.

Not sure if i'm on topic but I needed to express that.

>Jesus, not once, EVER justified the use of violence to solve problems.
Didn't he whip some guys who were selling shit in the Temple of the One?

I shoulda been more specific and said Roman Catholic, there is many other forms of Christianity of which i'm not sure the idea of organic unity resides, just to make that post abit more clear.

what did he mean by this?