Why was Hitler so fucking greedy? Could he not have traded with the Russians for that thick delicious black shit to fuel his panzers?
Why didn't Hitler just Ask for the Oil?
Tyler Cook
Benjamin Carter
Better yet. Why didn't he just invade Russian and not the West? Nobody would have given a shit.
Brayden Roberts
Germany isn't next door to Russia.
The French and Brits declared war because he invaded Poland and Czechoslovakia before Germany got near Russia.
David Foster
He did invade some countries he promised to not invade before that so none trusted him and just wanted him to fuck off.
Charles Mitchell
le meme no discussion hairy man XD
Brody Murphy
I actually found some newfound sympathy and understanding for the decisions nazi Germany made in WW2 after playing some grand strategy games like HOI4.
You need to imagine the scenario he was in at the time. Hitler just successfully invaded France, and in effect had conquered all his land-based enemies in Europe. He now had the best land army in the world, but no opponent to use it against. There was nothing he could do to reach Britain, so all his army could do is sit by and rot, or go after menial tasks like Africa. While sitting there doing effectively nothing, his nearby sleeping giant of a rival (USSR) was building up for the inevitable confrontation between them. Hitler had the best army in existence, no other immediate targets, and the perfect opportunity to launch a surprise attack against a future rival.
Or here's another way to think about it: what else Hitler could have done? If he didn't go after Russia, then he would had to essentially go "mission accomplished" and quit right there, solidify his gains and just play defensive. That's completely incompatible with his goals. And ultimately, those goals are the reason he's lost. If he was satisfied with less, he could have easily settled earlier and become the winner of WW2. He lost because his ideology did not have realistic end-goal or satisfaction with the status quo, while his enemies did.
Gabriel Lee
Ever looked at the borders you fucking moron?
Easton Sanders
He did until 1941.
But he knew that Stalin wanted to attack him eventually, and the Nazis also wanted to invade Russia to destroy communism and get muh lebensraum from the beginning.
/thread
Jordan Fisher
> muh border gore autism
Leo Adams
>Germany isn't next door to Russia.
He had borders with allies that neighbored Russia and had equal reasons to hate them.
Indeed, invading Poland was not very smart but then again, he had already planned the campaign in the West.
>hurrrrrr
Mason White
>invading Poland was not very smart but then again
Excuse me, sir military genius. Since invading Poland was such a bad idea, what SHOULD have Hitler done instead? I'm curious to know.
Ryan Martinez
He should have allied with Pooland, offered them Belarus and western Ukraine in return for the Danzig corridor. But Piludski died and his successor was a Frogaboo so a Polish-German alliance was unlikely.
Still his biggest mistake was in breaking the Treaty of Munich. This humiliated the French and British and ensured they would never trust him again.
Easton Foster
>He had borders with allies that neighbored Russia and had equal reasons to hate them.
...OK, Romania wasn't an ally yet, but that's an Ally, singular. You are proposing that Hitler should have supplied his entire invasion of the USSR through Czechoslovakia and Romania?
Aaron Adams
>offered them Belarus and western Ukraine in return for the Danzig corridor
Either that or go in through Czechoslovakia and Romania. It's doubtful the polish would take action to stop Hitler from invading Russia.
Robert Flores
Oh god you seriously are proposing that.
Joseph Moore
Why not? It's not a large border area but Russian wouldn't be expecting an attack. Hell, Stalin should have seen Hitler coming years before he invaded and still he did nothing.
Daniel Hernandez
Hitler only ever sent one Panzer division to North Africa, and Rommel still kicked everyones asses back and forth and south and north, if he had sent an actual army and pressed into the middle east he wouldn't have had any oil shortages and he might've absolutely destroyed his enemies maybe.
Alexander Diaz
He was, up until he attacked them.
William Foster
Well, for starters, you'd still have to get Hungary on board, and even then you're going to be supplying about 4 million men via a single railroad track that winds through the Carpathians.
Supplying Barbarossa was already a shitshow historically, this would have been a bad comedy. The Germans would likely be starving even as they ready the force for the invasion.
Then, as soon as the shooting starts, the Soviets are going to enjoy absolute superiority in equipment, firepower, air superiority and room to tactically maneuver.
Hunter Reed
.t retard
William Rodriguez
He did. He was also fucking broke. Remember this everytime someone tells you how great the Nazi Economy was: The Germans had to bum money, fuel and food from the Soviets.
THEY HAD TO BORROW FOOD FROM THE SOVIETS.
Gavin Bell
Proofs?
Leo Harris
So you're suggesting a Polish-German alliance against the Soviets?
Xavier Lewis
>you'd still have to get Hungary on board
That would have probably been the easiest part of the plan.
>supplying about 4 million men via a single railroad track that winds through the Carpathians
Yes, the geography of Romania is crap but let's not pretend the Carpathians span the whole border between Romania and Russia.
I'm not saying this would be as easy and practical as rolling through the plains of Poland. Just mulling on how Russia could have been invaded without pissing off the West and their allies.
>as soon as the shooting starts, the Soviets are going to enjoy absolute superiority in equipment, firepower, air superiority
In 1939? Doubtful unless they went on a massive begging campaign to the West.
Isaiah Diaz
Sure why not? The Poles hated the Russians at least as much as they hated the Germans, and Hitler was a great admirer of the Polish statesman Piłsudski.
Carson Walker
Romania was not a military weakling, sure it couldn't match Germany but with the help of the terrain and the Western Allies it probably could have stalled any offensive.
Dominic Stewart
Okay, but how would that have solved anything? Germany + Poland still wouldn't have been able to conquer Russia. That coarse of action would go nowhere.
Charles Parker
en.wikipedia.org
>1,600,000 tons of grain
>German shipments to the Soviets became tardy and failed to provide all that was promised the closer the date of Barbarossa came.
> A German foreign office report explained that Soviet raw material exports were "simply irreplaceable" and "the breakdown of a German-Soviet agreement must be avoided at all costs."
en.wikipedia.org
>German shipments to the Soviets became tardy and failed to provide all that was promised the closer the date of Barbarossa came. The Soviets fulfilled their obligations to the letter right up until the invasion, wanting to avoid provoking Germany.
Jaxon Cruz
Sure they would, Germany alone could have won if she'd avoided war with the West. The USSR very nearly collapsed despite the billions in lend-lease aid.
Isaac Baker
>Yes, the geography of Romania is crap but let's not pretend the Carpathians span the whole border between Romania and Russia
They do stretch across all of Romania and Hungary though. Which means so does the supply line.
>In 1939? Doubtful unless they went on a massive begging campaign to the West.
In 1939 absolutely. It is far easier for the Soviets to move Equipment inside their own borders using their entire rail network than for the Germans to move equipment across a single railroad crossing two countries.
Mason Moore
>Romania was not a military weakling
Indeed and they became reluctant allies only after seeing Western Europe get rekt. It would have taken a lot of pressure or arrange a regime change, which would have taken time and alerted the russians.
As far as political chicanery, this would be as difficult as forging and alliance with Poland.
Ayden Walker
>Trade
>With commies
The whole reason for the rise of Nazism was countering Jewish Bolshevism which was heavily backed by the Soviets. We don't have to ask why Hitler struck preemptively against the USSR, they were stacking troops and armor along the European border for an invasion to spread communism. Many knew this, it's the cause of the red scare. Exactly what they did during and after the war, they took over and oppressed half of Europe. I guess the red scare had some legitimacy.
Gabriel Campbell
>In 1939 absolutely
Their military was woefully untrained and under geared. I'm not arguing that supplying an invasion through Romania would be easy, I'm quite certain it would be a logistical nightmare with the added bonus the Germans couldn't/wouldn't be able to use the Med. But to think the russians could stage an organized defense in the face of an organized attack in 1939 is being generous.
Jayden Johnson
See
Levi Edwards
>Their military was woefully untrained and under geared
Wouldn't freaking matter at that point.
>But to think the russians could stage an organized defense in the face of an organized attack in 1939 is being generous.
Hoho, won't you be surprised then.
en.wikipedia.org
Jace Thompson
So did the Germans starve when the agreement broke?
Parker Roberts
>Hitler struck preemptively against the USSR
So this is the latest /pol/ meme argument
Lucas Reyes
I'm aware of the Japanese invasion of Mongolia but I don't think the German and Japanese armies were comparable in 1939. Not in tactics, command, or equipment.
Not saying the Germans would have an easy time, but at least the West wouldn't have cared as much and they would have had time to do a proper campaign.
Added hypothetical bonus. In this scenario Stalin could have invaded Poland to get to Germany thus forcing a different course of action.