You Eastern Orthodox and you Roman Catholics, what makes the other the true and the other one not? Is it the religion of Rome and Europe or the religion of greeks and slavs?
Let's say you are to convince me, convert me or simply enlighten me.
If you don't like these kinda threads or you stumbled upon this to be a twat, don't sweat it don't comment and move on.
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I mean if you want the really short version - Papal Primacy, Matthew 16:18-19
We Catholics view the Orthodox in an odd way. They have proper apostolic succession, their sacraments are valid, etc. Basically, their the same as us, but they reject the primacy of the Pope.
If I'm remembering correctly, they can even receive communion in our churches, but not the other way around.
I feel like catholicism was much more enforced through history.
Orthodoxy on the other hand, became part of the culture and much less people converted from it
Filioque you dumb shits
Primacy =/= Supremacy.
>the most successful Church in history
>4 of 4 main patriarchates were conquered by heathens
>worldwide organization directed by the Pope and councils
>dozen churches whose leaders are not even able to arrange Pan-Orthodox meeting
Orthodox has produced better writers and the opposition to catholicism has produced great writers.
>If I'm remembering correctly, they can even receive communion in our churches, but not the other way around.
If it's not reciprocal, we shouldn't even have it. Our ecumenism towards the Orthodox is wasted in a lot of respects considering how maligned the RCC is to Orthodox -- in some ways the rhetoric is as virulent as you'd find in protestant backwaters.
Incidentally while we're in the neighborhood, my church's view on Jews and Islam is retarded.
Catholics see them as schismatics, but to be sincere, the Orthodox practice of allowing people to marry and divorce up to 3 times is seen as completely wrong, almost a Heresy.
The Catholic Church is centralized, and the Pope can say "X is this way because I say so", the Orthodox dont have a common opinion on very modern issues like contraception.
this isnt right. French, Italian and Spanish Catholic literature (or even British, if you consider people like Chesterton or John Henry Newman) is pretty great.
I'll give you Cervantes. But, Dosto, Tolstoy, and James Joyce are great non catholics.
>JesuMon Gold and Silver.
BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT TOLKIEN
I thought you meant religious writers, religious literature.
Cervantes was a Catholic who was a writer, not a Catholic writer.
>What makes them true?
Christ is the origin and the followers of Christ's teachings
>What makes the other not
The division between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic a man-made division.
Also, if you don't join these groups, the groups deny you salvation. Which is all together wrong for man to claim God's Judgment exclusive only to their group
Oh well then yes Catholics are the best religious writers.
Catholics are more about sin and repercussions.
Orthodox Christianity is all about love.
ex:
C: God is mad that we ate the fruit so he punish us but Christ dies for us and we're forgiven, who doesn't listen burns in hell
O: We f* up by eating fruit when we were not ready yet, so we're removed from garden that we can't make more mistakes. God is sad because His creation is separate from Him. JC dies to show us the way to live so we can repair our bond with the God. Who does not listen will live in the presence of God forever tortured by not being able to become one with that infinite love.
and yeah, politics and papal primacy
basically Orthodox see Pope as one of the 5 original patriarchs that went rogue and declared himself the God on earth
> hid like pussies behind Orthodox Christians and used them as a shield against infidels
> valiantly did most of the actual fighting
> turned into a supranational government maintained by oppression and inquisition
> kept their traditions without having to be told or forced to do so
> kept alive and relevant by poor shithole New World colonies, fell to secularist movements and atheism
> managed to survive through Islamic and Communist rule and rebound both times
I'm not really sure why Catholics use this argument. Isn't one of the ideas of Christianity that you're going to suffer and be tested continually in your pursuit of Christian faith?
It's the equivalent of an autistic Veeky Forums argument on what papal primacy means.
Also filioque
Catholicism makes more sense. Orthodoxy seems too far-fetched.
Because the Orthodox Church is ten times more aesthetic
they didnt hid, they defeated the Turks in Vienna (twice), Lepanto, Malta, while the Greeks yelled that they prefered the Turban of the Turk over the Tiara of the Pope and converted en masse to Islam in Anatolia.
And also, the Spaniards were able to reconquer their country.
Also, all you have to do is look at the abortion rate of Russia to see how well they have spiritually survived communism.
The Soviet Union denied the existence of millions of Catholics in Ukraine that suddenly appeared when it became an independent country, and gave their churches to the Moscow Patriarch (and lets not get into the issue of how many of the soviet clergy were KGB agents)
There were Catholic Countries in the Soviet Block, like Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic, and they gave us the Prague Spring, the 1956 Hungarian revolution agains ther Soviets, and Pope John Paul II and the Solidarity Movement in Poland.
Currently there is a pretty big Undergound Catholic Church in China made of people who refuse to go to the "patriotic official catholic church", whose priests often get kidnapped and sent to jail by the State.
an article from 1990 when Gorvachev was still the president
csmonitor.com
dictatorships often dislike Catholics because they see them as having divided loyalties, since the head of their church is the sovereign of another state.
>Who does not listen will live in the presence of God forever tortured by not being able to become one with that infinite love.
Pretty
Don't forget about Christian Gnosticism, OP
- One supreme God
- However, the world is not created by God but by a lower emanation, a Demiurge. This is a rationale for the existence of evil, because the world was made imperfectly, with inherent flaws.
- Salvation is by overcoming the confinement of the body and the distraction of the material world; by which our souls join the supreme God.
- An emphasis on reason and mindfulness as a key to this (gnosis, knowledge in Greek)
- A religion more faithful to the original early Christianity, not corrupted by self serving political and Church institutions (current Christianity is shaped by pagan Romans and barbarians.)
>Our ecumenism towards the Orthodox is wasted in a lot of respects considering how maligned the RCC is to Orthodox
All the more reason to greet them with open arms, user. We probably shouldn't be in the business of dealing back every slight, right? That's not what Christ would have wanted. Least of all among fellow Christians.
Orthodox, here: your greeting us with open arms is a major part of why more traditionalist people in the Church think you're heretical; after all, if you were the One Church, you wouldn't be admitting other Christians have valid Sacraments.
Because
Papal supremacy is based on a forged document
But the Pope didn't know that
It's still wrong
Would God have allowed his Church to be wrong?
It might have been forged, but that doesn't mean the message is wrong.
Yes that's the point
If Man fucks up, Man fucks up
Man did fuck up, and is continuing to fuck up
Salvation is about Man not fucking up
And declaring yourself Vicar of Christ and the Boss of dis mufuggin Chirch based on a forged document is basically someone fucking up
Firstly do you belive that Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins before being resurrected?
In the end, this stuff doesn't even matter
Just don't take the Mark and you'll be set
>Would God have allowed his Church to be wrong?
Of course. YHWH allowed his chosen people to be wrong, from time to time, for millennia.
Eve, and subsequently Adam, was wrong.
God allows wrongness all the time.
I would say seek God and the Son, not man. If you're only seeking man, or seeking validation of all this through man, I think that's how you end up in a corrupt circle.
The teachings however, they're open to everybody.
Celibacy for priests in Roman Catholicism is a dumb idea that attracts sexual deviants or can waken normally dormant pederasty through extreme sexual and thus emotional frustration.
The Roman Catholics introduced it in the high middle ages, to protect their property. For noble families it was usual that the eldest son inherited the worldly title, while the second son became higher clergy. If the latter were to marry, the Church would lose the wealth (land) connected to that noble family member, after he passes away.
So the real motive was greed.
Hence, the Orthodox churches are not filled with pedophile priests (the pope or orthodox priest is allowed to marry and reproduce, just like it was in the first 1000 years of the Church), naturally the population doesn't despise them as much as the catholic priest, who enjoyed the full trust of people with their kids until the say 1970s.
Vatican II was also not done very well, they threw out the child with the bath-water. They abolished most rituals in an attempt to modernize. It is in fact the rituals which give the mystic atmosphere people desire. They attempted to exchange centuries of tradition with hippie-priests-with-guitars, they allowed pop/rock music to be played in a church etc. People will not get up early on sunday anymore for that.
This. I am a convinced dualist christian. I wished the cathar, bogomil or paulicians survived. Paulicians made it into the 19th century in Armenia (Thonraki sect), which is pretty remarkable considering it originated in the 6th-7th century.
Their book, hand-written over a millenium, called the "Key of Truth" of the Thonraki paulicians, survived and can be found through archive.org
>- An emphasis on reason and mindfulness as a key to this (gnosis, knowledge in Greek)
There are 3 words for knowledge in ancient Greek:
epistèlè : knowledge obtained through reading
tèchne : knowledge obtained through practice and manual labour
gnoosis: knowledge of the heart
Well, if the Pope had that much unlimited power, it would have snuffed a lot of conflicts in the crib.
Like how he told Cyril to excomunicate Nestorius if he doesn't change his views.
>get latin patriarchs in the Middle East;
>have them run with their tail between their legs shortly after;
and catholics were chummy with various south-american regimes, and the Ustase.
Also:
>Cehia;
>catholic;
Speaking of Hungary, have you read their anthem?
It's a really awesome thing(it's literally a prayer to God), and i respect them for that, but it's pretty much "stop hitting us, God":
Now the plundering Mongols' arrows
You swarmed over us
Then the Turks' slave yoke
We took upon our shoulders.
How often came from the mouths
Of Osman's barbarian nation
Over the corpses of our defeated army
A victory song!
How often did your own son agress
My homeland, upon your breast,
And you became because of your own sons
Your own sons' funeral urn!
The fugitive hid, and towards him
The sword reached into his cave
Looking everywhere he could not find
His home in his homeland
Climbs the mountain, descends the valley
Sadness and despair his companions
Sea of blood beneath his feet
Ocean of flame above.
Castle stood, now a heap of stones
Happiness and joy fluttered,
Groans of death, weeping
Now sound in their place.
And Ah! Freedom does not bloom
From the blood of the dead,
Torturous slavery's tears fall
From the burning eyes of the orphans!
No, it's not a medieval invention. It's a practice that developed in the early West.
And it has advantages.
Disregard mainstream religion
Loot and kill
Hi Satan, crawl out of Hell just for us?
> literally having to import Orthodox Serbs into your military frontier because the Catholic Croats aren't doing a good enough job defending you from the Ottomans
> ignoring the continually increasing birth rates in Russia and mass return of people to the Church vs. dropping rates of belief in Western countries
> believes the "mass conversion of Greeks" meme and forgets that the Ottomans would often purge and force conversions on members of nonofficial religions (i.e. not Islam) if they revolted, which they did constantly
> forgets that the Catholics warred on and ethnically cleansed Orthodox Christians in the Baltics and Russia, believing them heretics, and crusaded against Byzantium for material wealth allowing Islam to take over much of Europe
> pretends the Soviets somehow controlled the Russian Orthodox Church when for the first 60 years of the country's existence they alternated between barely tolerating them and outright mass executions
satanism
they do now
It isn't Satanism, but Dualism, whose followers and wisdom were killed due to the greed and malice of institutional Christianity, who thereafter constructed a canon that omitted texts with Gnostic/dualist ideas (such as those found in. Nag Hammadi in 1945.)
Its a discipline that could change at any time, not a fundamental doctrine. Married priests are already allowed in the Anglican Ordinarates and the Eastern Catholic Churches. The main reason I think the rule exists is logistical: the Church would have to pay and provide housing for families, not just single men. Celibacy would have to stick around for Monks, Bishops (as in the EO Church) and religious orders (Jesuits/Domincans/etc.)
Only parish priests in the Orthodox church can be married, not Bishops. You're right about Vatican II. Was an attempt to stave off decline by meeting people halfway, turned out to have made things worse if anything
Do you have any more paintings like this??
>basically Orthodox see Pope as one of the 5 original patriarchs that went rogue and declared himself the God on earth
That sounds very oddly similar to Lucifer's fall to evil
the Pope doesnt see himself as God on earth, he sees himself as the Supreme Court of Catholicism.
Basically, that every council needs his seal of approval or it is worthless.
Priests were originally not allowed to have sex. Celibacy just makes it easier for many of them
They both became heretics at Ephesus
Die, blasphemer
aren't eastern orthodox closer to Judaism than the Roman catholics?
At least i get along a lot better with orthodox than with catholics. i am a (((jew)))
Actually the Orthodox do have common opinions. The body of the church must agree to a theological shift. This is guided first and foremost by the monastic tradition, especially on Mount Athos. In effect this means the beliefs and traditions of the church are very stable, as the monks don't give a shit about anything beyond the scripture and the established holy tradition of the church.