Veeky Forums's opinion on law school? Should I go to one in the top 100?

I'm in Europe, I would be going to the best law school in Ireland. And would probably end up practicing law in Canada in a decade's time or so.

Basically, no. Now that I've admitted I don't have what it takes to do finance or economics at a post-grad level.

The only other option is medicine, but that's more years, awful pay for a very, very long time, and much more debt.

I think you're right and when I look at it from your perspective it makes a lot of sense to do this law school/barrister plan.

Then disregard every piece of information I have said. Wish I could help, but good luck with your journey

As an attorney who has "made it," T14 + good grades + top law firm job: DON'T.

This poster is entirely correct: the market is fucked. The "Lathammed" scandal in 2009 caused a lot of hell, but the issues are bigger than that: there are too many lawyers, too many law schools, there's a downward pressure on legal fees, and no-one's doing a goddamn thing to fix any of it. Worse yet, the advent of technology (e-discovery, etc.) has made cases more labor intensive and, frankly, less fun. Things are getting worse, not better: where I practice has basically become a big musical chairs game of partners looking for "better" opportunities, and the big ticket cases we used to rely on seem to be shrinking in number and size.

Even assuming you DO avoid that crap, the lifestyle sucks. Even through high-level associateship, you don't really get to do fun work. I bill something like 11-14 hours a day on most weekdays and about 4-8 on weekends. I'd post a picture of my timelogs, but it'd probably give away where I work. I hit my minimum hours in July, and will be "high hours" bonus eligible by next week, but no-one gives a fuck or gives me any relief - in fact, they tried to take my high hours bonus AWAY one year because they wanted it to be more "fair" for people who billed half of what I did. Most annoyingly, partners seem blissfully unaware of how much it sucks to be an associate nowadays given the 24/7 nature of the practice: the fact that some courts allow you to file by midnight seems to make them think that the trial team should naturally be in the office until midnight, etc.

I've been burning the candle at both ends to get the fuck out of law - taking classes on the side, networking, etc - because I'm so desperate to get out. Once I get into the range of partner, I'll have to prepare to take out a multi-million dollar loan to buy into the firm, which I'll then have to work HARDER to pay off. I'm trying to avoid that. Alternatively, seppuku.

Fuck, well I'm just completing my degree in political science and philosophy (with a minor in criminal justice, history, and ethics) because I thought it would be useful when applying for law school.

Surely there are other uses for law degree than just becoming an attorney... r-r-right Veeky Forums?

Smurfit sucks, and law in NA is already saturated.

>Surely there are other uses for law degree than just becoming an attorney... r-r-right Veeky Forums?
50% of law school grads are doing something other than practicing law within the first first years. While that speaks to the bleak prospects and burnout present in the practice, it also shows that people are retasking their J.D. to other things.

>top 100
top kek, if you aren't able to get in the top 100 of any type of school you should be cleaning dishes for a living.

Would you say it's worth attending law school if I am able to obtain a full-ride to an unranked school?

I sure as hell won't be going into debt for a law degree. Luckily, I will be graduating debt-free from my undergrad.

Saturated labor market for attorneys. You might be able to impress a prospective employer with "muh lack of debt" tho

Lol

someone has shit grades and lsat

Is top 10,000 in India good, Op?

Work at a law firm for a few weeks as a temp. Even work for free if you have to. See if you like it before wasting years on your life and 100k in debt.

My brother got the degree then discovered he did not like law.

Sutherland?

It depends on your end game. There are a few career paths where having a law degree could be a substantial advantage. Most in most cases, you're just putting yourself 3 years behind, even if you avoid the debt.

I know a little about the film and TV industry and am nt interested in a law career, but I was wondering what are the prospects for you law students if they want to go into specializing?

>IP and Copyright law
>International Co-Production Treaties
>doing a Marty Singer, and protecting clients from bad publicity through threads of litigation?
>Film and Television tax law (or is that more accounting?)

Surely every industry has it's own little niches?
Or is the market still saturated?

I think IP is the last field that isn't extremely over saturated, but even then the monsters that are law students are figuring that out.

>Film and Television tax law (or is that more accounting?)
Canadian media industry faggot here, every production company up here needs to have a lawyer on their production or else they can't get funding. Their main job is clearing content to air so we don't get sued into oblivion due to copyright infringement, slander, etc. You'll also draw up contracts between contractors/actors and the company. I personally hire a lawyer to look over any big contract I take on as well as any option agreement I enter, because holy fuck do producers ever want to fuck you over with those things. Your job with that will be to comb through the contract and explain to a writer exactly what they're getting into.

Going to one outside the top 5 (top 10 at a push) is like paying for a gigantic dunce hat in disguise.

Recruiters will laugh at you.

It's called "Ching chong - the edgening"

I want to run for a public office, but I could do that without a law degree.

>I want to run for a public office
Not to be harsh, but that's not really a realistic career goal. It's not plausible to expect that you'll be able to make a livable income any time in the near future, even if you do everything correctly. I think you're being a little bit naive here, unless you're skipping some steps.

It is a pretty good way to become a lawyer or judge if you go to a tier 1 school. If you go to a T14 school it is a pretty good way to get an upper middle income job fairly early (either at biglaw, management, or banking). It is a pretty good prelude to working in government if you go to a top 100 or local school. It is awful or at the very least less than optimal for anything else.

I still find it surprising how theres such a glut of law school grads, given how expensive and supposedly difficult law school is.

No one can give you decent advice without knowing what country you're in and what your stats (undergraduate institution, undergraduate GPA, qualifying test scores) are. Hell, even if you were American and you told me that you had a 3.8 in a liberal arts major from an Ivy-tier undergrad and 170 LSAT, I wouldn't say "do it" or "give up on it" until you had acceptances and scholarship offers in hand. And, as I'll elaborate on a little further down, even getting into a top school with a generous scholarship isn't a guarantee of success.

If you were in America, I'd tell you to work as a paralegal at a big law firm to see if you like it (a lot of the big firms here hire people right out of college for two-year stints). And read this: businessinsider.com/samuel-browning-and-michael-leichter-flow-chart-2013-10

>Would you say it's worth attending law school if I am able to obtain a full-ride to an unranked school?

No, because that school will almost certainly have strings attached to the scholarship like "keep above a 3.5," and then they'll deliberately put you in classes where you're competing against everyone else with that scholarship, so half of you will lose your scholarship.

"IP" is too broad, but patent law is doing well right now.

I graduated from a T14 school last year (just finished a comfy as fuck A3 district clerkship, disappearing into the ravenous maw of big law next month, fingers crossed that I don't have a psychotic break in the first month or anything), and there were a lot of people in my class who'd botched their first year with $150K in debt working for $30K-$50K a year at public interest or local prosecutors' joints, despite their dreams of big law. So not even T14 is a sure thing.

Also, law school isn't hard, but law school classes are graded on a curve, and beating that curve in every class is hard.

Most attorneys I am acquaintances with seem absolutely miserable

>"IP" is too broad, but patent law is doing well right now.

I meant as in trademark, book rights, adaptation rights, licencing characters, merchandising from films and tv

Which type of law do you want to practice? It can be harder to make the change than you'd think. Both countries are common law (excluding Quebec), but they've evolved differently enough that you'll be pretty uncomfortable for awhile.

Pretty much this, intern at a firm for a few months. A friend got me an internship as an undergrad, I ended up developing such a disdain for office life I dropped my degree all together and found the highest paying trade possible (better than most white collar jobs here). I've ended up putting myself on course for a buy in and started doing well for myself in real estate. All the while being debt free and working 40 hours a week.
tl;dr Don't pigeon hole yourself, you've got options if you're smart about how you approach this.

lit or corp?
also you BILL those hrs on average? damn son

not particularly useful for applying, no
potentially useful for certain courses

re: other uses for a law degree, sure, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of non-practicing JDs are in jobs they could get w/o a law degree
it really depends on your interests. i'm hard pressed to think of many jobs outside of law where it would be worth it to pursue a JD considering the debt and three years of opportunity cost

nah, i wouldn't go to an unranked school if you paid me. as stated ad nauseum itt, there are just too many law school grads, TTT grads are boned

yea working at a firm before LS is TCR

idk what the market is like, but i did work for a summer at a firm w/ one of the best copyright practices in the country, and found it discouraging
that kind of work is sexy so lots of ppl want to do it; i met people who joined the firm to do soft IP but ended up mostly doing commercial/securities lit b/c there wasn't enough work to go around
maybe the story is different at a specialty firm, but i'd doubt it's that easy to find a place paying market
(but that's just the experience of one law student in NY (not CA) w/ zero real experience so take w/ a huge grain of salt)

top 5/10 isn't a thing in law
law is top 3/6/14
outside of that no one really agrees

yea don't go to law school to be a politician, imo

i cosign all of this

>i cosign all of this

Out of my class of 350, I don't know anyone who's doing this sort of thing. As a rule of thumb, the sexier a practice is, the harder it is to get work in it, like said. Maybe it's different if you go to UCLA, but I doubt it.

Like I said, do a gig as a paralegal at the type of firm you want to work for as a lawyer. I expect you'll discover that it's a lot more detail-oriented and mundane than you expect.

But also remember that, no matter what kind of law you have to practice, your first year requirements are going to be mandatory. Those requirements are going to be some sort of variation on: criminal law ("what qualifies as murder," not Miranda-type stuff, that's a completely different course), torts ("the coffee was too hot"), property (bullshit), constitutional law (this course will almost certainly only be about separation of powers, the commerce clause, plus the Eleventh and Fourteenth amendments. If you want the sexy amendments, you take an upper level course), contracts, civil procedure, and legislation/regulatory law. Prior knowledge from your industry will give you zero advantage in these... and the first year is the only year that matters in law school.

You see, the August before your second year starts, your school will hold a massive career fair for private firm employers. You'll do a bunch of speed interviews at your school, and if an employer likes you then you interview at the employer's office. If you do well in both those interviews, you get an offer to work at that firm for the summer after your second year. Unless you botch it completely, your second year summer will lead to an offer to come back to the firm for full-time employment after graduation.

tl;dr, most private employment is dependent on doing well your first year, in generic classes that everyone has to take and that your previous employment is unlikely to help you with, unless you were a paralegal and you rock civil procedure or something.

My problem with law is, at least in America, lawyers are a dime a dozen; hell they're probably even less than that now
We have way too many lawyers in this country, the town that would have one Atticus finch by luck now has 20. Too many people heard about the money and now more and more people keep trying to go to law school. Someone going to one of the top 100 law schools that isn't in the top 10 is basically dog shit

Just fucking get your cpa. Why the fuck do law only? Go learn accounting and youll get a job. Then do law if you really want to.

Accounting is not quantitative. It's a drone profession but there's a demand and youll get some money

Is Law School really that hard though?

Most of they people I knew who wanted to law school when I was in college were stupid and lazy idiots who didn't know what to do with their bullshit easy liberal arts degree.

I'm sure if your smart and motivated and used to taking hard courses than law school isn't too bad, but I guess those people don't go to shit tier law schools.

Try being a paralegal first to see if you REALLY enjoy law. It'll save you time and a shitload of money.

depends

it's not hard to pass (virtually everyone does)

it is hard in the sense that you'll be on a curve w/ everyone else
so getting, for example, an A grade (top 10%) is relatively hard

the material you need to learn to get a JD is not hard
esp so at lower-tier schools that are less theory heavy

but if you want a rigorous academic experience, you can make LS hard
you can conduct research for professors, you can start to publish, you can be a TA for a doctrinal course, you can become an articles editor, you can choose demanding theory-heavy courses

tl;dr not hard, but hard to do very well, and you can make it hard regardless

Law school isn't hard. No one gets below a C in anything.

Doing better than everyone else and beating the curve is hard.

$URRE$