Welsh stories, characteristics of Native American tribes, and accounts of early American settlers all point to the idea that the Welsh sailed to and settled in the New World in the 12th century, via modern day Mobile Bay in Alabama.
T/his/ is my question: Did the Welsh sail to the new world and settle, leaving behind artifacts and changing native tribes through their interaction? If not, how can we explain the seemingly Welsh artifacts, and characteristics of tribes like the Mandans?
Have you considered Native Americans crossed the ocean and settled Wales, which is why the Welsh are so retarded?
Cameron Cooper
Is it possible that the small number of Welsh descended Natives died out with the Mandans after a small pox epidemic, and that there are none surviving today, so we don't have genetic information from them? Or that they were so small in number that most Welsh genetic traits were lost through breeding with pure-blooded Natives?
Eli James
HOL UP
Bentley Collins
Not really, there would be almost certainly be detectable traces
Kayden Long
All the christians are dead, only heretics remain
Wyatt Morris
What if they all died out though, so there are living descendants who we can test the theory with? How could we determine the existence/non-existence of Welsh genetics in an extinct tribe?
Asher Murphy
>How could we determine the existence/non-existence of Welsh genetics in an extinct tribe? If only they left something behind after they died... like some sort of bones or something.
Camden Reyes
How much genetic testing have we done on Mandan skeletons?
Jose Clark
>How could we determine the existence/non-existence of Welsh genetics in an extinct tribe? By checking the DNA of the extinct tribe.
Look, we know who natives from 10,000 years ago were related to and what they ate and even where their food came from. Hell, we can see the traces left by Neanderthal and Denisovan species-mixing from 40,000 years ago. We saw the traces left by a couple of British sailors who survived a shipwreck off the coast of Australia in the 18th century or something and mixed with Abo tribes. If the Welsh had settled America, we would fucking know.
Levi Ward
Would we? Out of the small number of natives that could have descended from pre-Colombian contact, is it that unlikely that we just haven't tested those few remains?
Aaron Kelly
Native genetics aside, how can we explain the similarities of accounts with tribes and the Welsh? Specifically architecture, language, and boats
Matthew Stewart
How do explain that one Australian Aboriginal language literally uses the word "dog" for canines, pronounced the same and everything?
Sometimes shit develops independently across completely separate cultures. There's only so many ways you can build a hut or boat and only so many sound combinations human vocal chords can put together.
Andrew Taylor
If they interbred at all with the natives then traces would remain
Julian Wood
I understand that, but for that to be the explanation, the Mandans would have to have developed completely isolated from the tribes around them. Their language and architecture was uniquely similar to Welsh while the tribes around them didn't display that at all.
It just seems like the factors add up too much to say its a coincidence.
Parker Morales
The problem with that is that nearly all living natives have European blood, so we'd have to test the remains of the tribes in question - which I don't think we've done.
Thomas Ward
>language We know the Mandan language, precisely because all the nonsense about it being Welsh made linguists go check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandan_language
Unsurprisingly, it's a typical native american language. By the way, Mandans weren't actually wiped out by the smallpox epidemic.
>architecture Burrows and mudhuts and shit
>boats What about them?
There's absolutely nothing in Mandan culture or mythology than even remotely hints at a European origin, let alone a Welsh one.
Austin Green
O NIGGA HOL UP--
IS U SAYIN
Jack Robinson
"No"
Samuel Sanders
>Language That article doesn't totally rule out a connection, does it?
>Architecture According to the article I posted, early reports described Mandans as having "forts, towns and permanent villages laid out in streets and squares"
>Boats Mandans reportedly fished Coracles as opposed to canoes
Just as a note: I'm not trying to prove my own bias, I'm just playing devils advocate
Samuel Evans
WE
Thomas Johnson
>That article doesn't totally rule out a connection, does it? No, because it's too busy explaining that Mandan is a Sioux language. I mean it's like claiming the Dutch are descended from the Chinese and pointing out that no one has ever denied there was a connection between Dutch and Chinese. Look at the grammar and the vocabulary and the sounds.
>early reports described Mandans as having "forts, towns and permanent villages laid out in streets and squares Forts, towns and permanent villages are uncommon but not unheard of for tribes in the region. I'm not surprised villages would have a square and I guess there could be streets. Pic related was built thousands of years ago.
Also, "early reports" are worth less than shit and often apocryphal.
>Mandans reportedly fished Coracles as opposed to canoes Yes, it's called a bull boat. They have them from Iraq to Vietnam too. It's a simple design, built much like a kayak (animal skin over wooden frame)
>I'm just playing devils advocate Why bother?
John Young
More stuff on the subject of Native forts because this is actually interesting:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabila This gave the name "Mobile Bay" to the place where the Welsh supposedly landed. Unfortunately for the theory, it was built by the Muscogee, who are completely related to the Mandans.
In fact, I don't understand why it's not the Muscogee who are supposed to be half-European:
"October 10, 1540, the Governor entered the village of Tascaluça, which is called Athahachi, a recent village. And the chief was on a kind of balcony on a mound at one side of the square, his head covered by a kind of coif like the almaizal, so that his headdress was like a Moor's which gave him an aspect of authority; he also wore a pelote or mantle of feathers down to his feet, very imposing; he was seated on some high cushions, and many of the principal men among his Indians were with him. He was as tall as that Tony (Antonico) of the Emperor, our lord's guard, and well proportioned, a fine and comely figure of a man. Before this chief there stood always an Indian of graceful mien holding a parasol on a handle something like a round and very large fly fan, with a cross similar to that of the Knights of the Order of St. John of Rhodes, in the middle of a black field, and the cross was white. And although the Governor entered the plaza and alighted from his horse and went up to him, he did not rise, but remained passive in perfect composure and as if he had been a king."
"Moscoso and his men mounted their horses and galloped around the plaza, playing a dangerous sport involving jousting with lances. The men occasionally feinted toward Tuskaloosa, hoping to frighten him, a technique of manipulation de Soto had used against the Inca Atahualpa at Cajamarca. The chief sat as though unconcerned. Afterward the Indians served the Spaniards food, and the residents of Atahachi danced in the plaza, reminding the Spaniards of rural dances in their own country. "
Grayson Davis
Isn't there a similar case on this involving a tribe in Mexico/the west coast having a lot of language similarities to the japanese?
Jonathan King
Highly likely it was the Polynesians made their way to the Americas.
Sebastian Green
>nords, anglos and spaniards land in new world >slaughter everyone
>welsh land in new world >racemix and build an idyllic community
why
Levi Flores
No.
Isaiah Hernandez
It's considered almost certain because the domesticated coconut in South America came from relatively recent Austronesian varieties, just like it happened in the Western Indian ocean from Madagascar, and conversely the sweet potato was brought from South America to Polynesia VERY recently (in the first millennium or so.) Coconuts could conceivably have washed ashore (from an island close enough, like Easter Island or Hawaii) but there's no way sweet potatoes spread without transoceanic human contact.
