/esoterica/

General esotericism thread with a slant towards Western esotericism. Post resources, practices, experiences, metaphysical speculation, etc.

Other urls found in this thread:

pastebin.com/LmrE1z9t
pastebin.com/Fqfp6XrF
youtube.com/watch?v=1O5-YOgkMnA
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

any cheeky rituals to help me win the euromillions on tuesday?

How does magick work? I can understand eastern stuff pretty well but I don't understand what it's supposed to do and what it actually is.

Especially since it seems so vital to western occultism.

Magic is a science of human interiority. Its the manipulation of the deep principles of the Self. For example, a novice is able to detach himself from his thought patterns to the extent his thoughts a kind of solidity or "substance" of their own because they are recognized as fundamentally separate from the spirit. With this in mind, a novice can directly banish thoughts/emotions he rejects through the use of certain techniques. This would be a "magical" technique and one I have experienced for myself with great success.

>This would be a "magical" technique and one I have experienced for myself with great success.
Can you explain further? Also, what tradition is it from? I'm guessing Hermeticism?

Some thought control techniques as promised:

>By way of immediate action, a stand must first be made against thought, against mental processes. "I do not know"-it is said 1 -"anything which, when unbridled, uncontrolled,
unwatched, untamed, brings such ruin as thought-and I do not know anything which,
when bridled, controlled, watched, tamed, brings such benefits as thought." Thought,
which everyone lightly says is "mine," is, in reality, only to a very small degree in our
power. In the majority of cases, instead of "to think" it would be correct to say "we are
thought" or "thought takes place in me." In the normal way, the characteristic of thought
is its instability. "Incorporeal"-it is said2-"it walks by itself": it "runs hither and thither
like an untamed bull.'" Hard to check, unstable, it runs where it pleases. 4 In general, it is
said that, while this body may persist one year, two years, three years or even up to a
hundred years and more in its present form, "what we call thought, what we call mind,
what we call consciousness arises in one manner, ceases in another; incessantly, night
and day"

>asceticism is not a cowardly resignation before life's vicissitudes, but rather a struggle of
a spiritual kind, which is not any less heroic than the struggle of a knight on the
battlefield. As Buddha himself said (Mahdvagga, 2.15); "It is better to die fighting than
to live as one vanquished." This resolution is in accord with Evola's ideal of overcoming
natural resistances in order to achieve the Awakening through meditation; it should he
noted, however, that the warrior terminology is contained in the oldest writings of
Buddhism, which are those that best reflect the living teaching of the master. Evola works
tirelessly in his hook to erase the Western view of-a languid and dull doctrine that in fact
was originally regarded as aristocratic and reserved for real "champions.

>In its fluid, changeable, and inconsistent character, normal thought reflects, more-
over, the general law of samsaric consciousness. This is why mental control is considered
as the first urgent measure to be taken by one who opposes the "current."

>The struggle now begins, The symbolism connected with the Khattiya, the warriors,
is again used. The texts speak first of a fourfold, just striving (cattdro sammappadhana)
to be won by bringing to bear viriya-bala, the heroic force of will, which has already
been considered as a requisite for the Ariyan disciple or combat-ant

>The first instrument is substitution. When, in conceiving a particular idea, there arise
harmful and unworthy thoughts images of craving, of aversion, of blindness" (these are-
let us remember-the three principal modes of manifestation of the

asava), then we must make this idea give place to another, beneficial idea. And in giving
place to this beneficial idea it is possible that those deliberations and images will dissolve
and that by this victory "the intimate spirit will be fortified, will become calm, united,
and strong." Here is the simile; "Even as a skilled builder with a thin wedge is able to
extract, raise up, expel a thicker one," just so, the immediate substitution of one image by
another has the power of dispersing and dissolving the tendencies and the mental
associations that the first was in course of determining or of arousing. What is
"unworthy," in one text, is defined like this; "That, whereby fresh mania of desire sprouts
and the old mania is reinforced; fresh mania of existence sprouts and the old mania is
reinforced; fresh mania of error sprouts and the old mania is reinforced." We are not
dealing with moralistic aspects but with what may he described as ontological or
existential references. It is a matter of overcoming and obstructing samsaric nature, of
neutralizing the possibilities of fresh "combustions in oneself. Particular aid is given by
the idea of the harmfulness of certain thoughts; upon the appearance of a "thought of ill
will or cruelty," one must summon "wisdom conforming to reality" and then formulate
this thought: "There is now arisen in me this thought of ill will or cruelty; it leads to my
own harm, it leads to others' harm, it leads to the harm of both, it uproots wisdom, it
brings vexation, it does not lead to extinction, it leads to self-limitation." If this thought is
formulated and apprehended with sufficient intensity and sincerity, the bad thought
dissolves.

>This leads us immediately to the second instrument: expulsion through horror or
contempt. If, in the effort of passing from one image to another as the first method
proscribes, unworthy thoughts, images of craving, aversion, or blindness still arise, then
the unworthiness, the irrationality, and the misery they represent must be brought to
mind. This is the simile: "Just as a woman or a man, young, flourishing and charming,
round whose neck were tied the carcass of a snake, or the carcass of a dog, or a human
carcass, would be filled with fear, horror, and loathing, so, the perception of the un-
worthy character of those images or thoughts should produce an immediate and in-
stinctive act of expulsion, from which their dispersion or neutralization would follow.
Whenever an affective chord is touched, then by making an effort one must be able to
feel contempt, shame, and disgust for the enjoyment or dislike that has arisen!'

>In order to employ this ascetic instrument of defense to its best advantage we have to presuppose in the individual an acute form of interior sensibility and a capacity
for immediately projecting the qualities that arouse instinctive repulsion onto the image
of what is to be eliminated or neutralized. Hindus have the myth of Siva, the great ascetic
of the mountaintops, who with one glance of his frontal eye-the eye of knowledge-
reduced Kama, the demon of desire, to ashes when he tried to disturb his mind

>The third instrument is dissociation. When undesired images and thoughts arise, they
must remain meaningless and be ignored. The simile is: as a man with good sight, who does not wish to observe what comes into his field of view at a particular moment
can close his eyes or look elsewhere, When attention is resolutely withheld, the images or
the tendencies are again restrained. The simile we have just quoted brings out clearly
what we have said about the state of passivity in which man finds himself during most of
his mental and emotive life: has he, indeed, this power of looking or of withdrawing his
sight at will'? Images, psychoaffective aggregates of fear, desire, hope, despa'r, and so on,
fascinate or hypnotize his mind, subtly tying it, they "manipulate" it by their influence
and feed on its energies like vampires. It is essential that this ascetic instrument not he
confused with the common and simple process of "chasing away" a thought, a practice
that often has the opposite effect, that is, of forcing it back, strengthened, into the
subconscious, according to the psychological law of "converse effort." t is rather a matter
of destroying by not seeing, by neutralizing the disposition and by leaving the image
alone. The preceding instrument, also, should be regarded in this light: it is not repulsion
by one who is struggling, but a reaction arising from a superior state of awareness and
from an earnestly lived sense of the "indignity" and irrationality of the images and
inclinations that appear.

>The fourth instrument is gradual dismemberment. Make the thoughts vanish one after
another successively. The relevant simile gives the idea of the technique very clearly:
"Just as a man walking in haste might think: 'Why am I walking in haste? let me go more
slowly' and, walking more slowly, might think: "But why am I walking at all? I wish to
stand still' and, standing still, might think: 'For what reason am I standing up? I will sit
down' and, sitting down, might think: 'Why must I only sit'? I wish to lie down' and might
lie down: just so if harmful and unworthy thoughts, images of craving, of aversion and of
blindness, again arise in an ascetic in spite of his contempt and rejection of them, he must
make these thoughts successively vanish one after another.

>It is possible, however, that fhe mind in its irrationality may not be subdued even by
this method. In that case one must pass to d'rect action, that is, one must come to grips
with oneself. Whence, the last instrument: if, while making the thoughts gradually
disappear one after another, irrational impulses and unworthy images continue to arise,
then, "with clenched teeth and tongue pressed hard against the palate, with the will you
must crush, compel, heat down the mind." The simile is: "as a strong man, seizing
another weaker man by the head or by the shoulders, compels him, crushes him, throws
him down." Again, for real success in this direct form, of struggle one must be able to
call upon the illumination, the energy, and the superiority that proceed from what is
outside the simple "current. Only then is there no danger that the victory will be merely
exterior and apparent, and that the enemy, instead of being destroyed, has disengaged and
entrenched himself in the subconscious. 28

>In order to clarify the various stages of this subtle war, an author has adopted the
following simile, t is not possible to avoid the appearance of images and inclinations in
the mind: this occurs spontaneously and automatically until what is called voidness,
sunna, is reached. To the disciple, to the fighting ascetic, some of these images are like
strange and indifferent people whom we meet on the road and who pass by without
attracting our attention. Others are like people we meet who wish to stop us: but since we
see no point in it, we ourselves withdraw attention and pass on. Other images, however,
are like people we meet and with whom we ourselves wish to walk, in the face of all
reason. In this case we have to react and assert ourselves: the tendency of our will must
be opposed from the start.

Thought control techniques from a western perspective:

>In a being who has become alive, the mind is no longer "thought." Rather,
it is activity that instantaneously determines reality through images. Through
images the magus creates, destroys, and transforms into matter feelings
and sensations that are within himself; through images he acts on his own
organism; through images he operates on other people. To the material ac-
tions and "will" of ordinary people he substitutes the power of the image.

>But in order to do so, it is necessary to awaken oneself to timeless speed
in feeling, conceiving, halting, and intervening. The ordinary, slow, ob-
tuse, and sluggish consciousness usually manages to perceive things at the
speed of a sleepwalker. Acts escape it; consciousness opens its eyes only
when the "precipitate," the "fallout," of the fact (the thing, the sensation,
the material movement) is already there. Thus, what consciousness per-
ceives are the shadows of phenomena and a world of knowledge as ac-
knowledgment, but not of action (magic).

>In this sense you also understand the world you call "inner" as being of
external phenomena and lunar; thus, you do not know and live the image
as action, but as image. Its action is too fast, and you are not present in it.
A mere echo, the image either "appears" by itself, or it may be simply
"evoked." You do not know the creative relationship through which it could
act from deep inside yourself (Latin imago ["image"] = imo ago ["1 act from
the depth" ]).

>In order to acquire and perceive this rapidity of what is not yet "physi-
cal," the mind must succeed in wresting itself free from the organ of the
brain. The necessary condition for this is to "descend into hell" — that is,
from the head into the "heart," as we have mentioned before. This is also
the "bath" that breaks the chains of "gold" and frees it.

>You already know that this "descent" leads to the perception of the
"subtle" and the "volatile. 1 ' But the "subtle" is the second dimension of real-
ity — in which reality is no longer exteriority in space and time, or discursive
thought, but rather activity and rhythm. Then you are "reborn backwards."
No longer hypnotized by the spectacle of things and ideas, you can detach
yourself from them and perceive them in the act of their prenatural birth.

>However, this is a consciousness in which the image is transformed
into a projection, or into an action in the pure state. Will is effort: desire is
the tendency toward something that one does not have; the force is a middle
point between a goal and a reality into which it tries to be transformed by
overcoming a resistance. In the magical image, on the other hand, there is
no effort, nor striving, nor an interval of fulfillment: it is acting that amounts
to seeing, and a seeing that amounts to acting. The process of ideation is
realization ipso facto. It does not have a future, and it is more rapid than
the antithesis: its law is it is — the command-presence.

>
Through images you can successfully stand up to feelings and passions,
whenever they descend upon you, a struggling ascetic. If desire, fear, an-
ger, sensations, hatred, lust, all of a sudden appeared in your mind, in your
feeling and will, jump back and fix the feeling in an image: act upon it and
the mental act will produce transformation and annihilation in the corre-
sponding element.

>Assume in a flexible way any thought or image of negation, mistrust, dis-
traction, or that you simply do not wish to entertain; immediately imagine
a hand pulling out a splinter that has pierced the skin and casting it away
And if the element has already penetrated and sapped your strength, get
rid of it "as a strong man, seizing a weaker man by the head or by the shoul-
ders, compels him, crushes him, throws him down. " If a pain, an illness, or a
sense of fatigue overtakes you, fix it in a flake of snow that melts when it
falls on a mass of glowing white-hot metal. If any anxiety restlessness,
desire, or mental fever attack you, turn them into the shadow of smoke
that, in the fire of the mind, is dispersed in the pure, clean, blue sky. The
mind is fixed through the image of a fist that holds a little defenseless
animal, until it stays still, motionless, inert; or through the image of an
arrow shot at its target; or that of an ever-present iron bar that always
parries every blow; or a hand that systematically grabs and leads the un-
stable mind, which runs away every time an involuntary association of
thoughts arises, back to its proper place (at the center).

>In order to free the mind, imagine the open sky, the air, or remember
that "[liike a deep, clear, and transparent lake, this is how the wise become
calm" (Dhammapada, VI, 82); or that "[a] 11 desires flow into him as waters
flow into the ocean, which, ever-filled, never overflows but remains unchanged"
(Bhagavad Gita, II, 70); or "Like a lamp that shines unmoving in a windless
place' 7 (VI, 19). This last image can be represented through determination
by imagining a flame that is still enveloped in smoke and mobile, in which
a state upset by modifications that have not yet been dominated is eventu-
ally fixed.

Just pastebin or make an infograph, dude.

>About all this, be aware that first of all it is necessary to stop a thought
or a feeling as soon as it emerges. It must be caught in midair, before it puts
down roots in your soul and spreads there; you must prevent it, suffocate
it while it is still in embryo. Become agile, elusive, ready to detach and
extract yourself.

>Everything depends on the rapid and complete amalgamation of sentiment
and image, and on the active attitude to be maintained before the image.
The entire mind must be concentrated on this image, as a bundle of solar
rays is gathered up in the focus of a lens.

>If you persevere in these practices you will grow in the knowledge that
thoughts and feelings are not incorporeal and "spiritual," floating in the
air, but rather almost tangible moving objects, which can be handled,
moved, projected, changed, put down, loaded and unloaded, each one
endowed with its own form. This form can be seen and derives from the
"sign" of the being that emanates those thoughts or feelings.

Best way I can put it is: you have to acquire a subtle sense of your thoughts, realize that every thought is both its content and its principle. Now by that I mean, a lustful thought's content is whatever's turning you on, but what it is, its "character" or "essence" is, after all, is sexual and desirous. That is its "vibration" or "tone" if you forgive the new age-y term.

Once you take a step back from your thoughts, and can intuitively see that once you cease identifying with their contents they resolve back into the "energies" that they are expressions of, you can nip their effects in the bud.

Bullshit. Magic was/is identical with what we call science today.

The method of science, the aim of religion

this, include book suggestions, too.

Did you at least read them as they are now?

no, i might do so eventually but the current format is very distracting. i bailed on the last thread because i knew by the time i caught up the discussion would have moved on.

Okay, well, some general book recommendations:

Introduction to Magic
Doctrine of Awakening
Revolt Against the Modern World
The Royal Art
The Yoga of Power
The Upanishads
Bhagavad Gita
Plotinus' Enneads
Primordial Meditation: Contemplating the Real
Literally anything by Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard
Hindu Philosophy by Theos Bernard
Schelling's Ages of the World
Anything by Paul Tillich

THOUGHT CONTROL PASTEBIN:

Buddhist: pastebin.com/LmrE1z9t
Magical: pastebin.com/Fqfp6XrF

Enjoy.

Why does it take a strong and sturdy mind to overcome the ego? Why must the mind fully understand the ego before it is allowed to see past it? If I was shown the truth when I was not whole, what could of happened to me?

youd probably ignore it for several years until you were FORCED to confront "it" (yourself), when nothings left, even then it can be a superficial whisp in the wind

Because the ego's function is one of fixation on an object, and is a reflection of the life force - in that, because life is fundamentally movement towards some goal, the ego is the "goal-making program" in our biology.

The ego likes to have its feet on the ground. it needs to be fixated on something to get its bearings. Cutting out the ego is like floating in a void, you suddenly don't have any support under you, and if you're not ready for that it'll fuck your shit up

If the acquisition of physical gold is in alignment with your true will, it will come as a side-effect of pursuing spiritual gold. Aurum nostrum non est aurum vulgi.

noticed a lot of magic described in various sources involves heavy emphasis on having authority, in the sense that things are evoked, comanded, will is imposed on this or that, the magician or wizard or whoever either comands on his own authority or calls upon some higher source like god or angels

where does this authority come from, namely in the cases where its supposedly the personal authority of the one doing the thing, is it just a emphasis on ego tripping during the magical act or is it something that the individual is suposed to train and develop same as focus or willpower, and if so how?
theres focus exercises, theres ways to build willpower, but how does one train internal authority?

One gains internal authority when one destroys the internal authority of the ego. All that you are, is desires and wishes that your ego places upon you. It is the controller and restriction in your life. When you abolish the ego, that means you come to terms with what it actually is. Then you have completely authority over yourself.

So to do this the 'ritual' you require is self inquiry. Why you act and do as you do and the motives behind every action and the reason for those motives.

direct result of the transcendental dignity of the Self

isnt there some identification involved, as in that the practicioner identifies with some ideal absolute/transcendental self and comands from that position?

It all begins with identifying yourself. If I were to say 'Nobody knows you like you do' you would say that is a correct statement. But If I then asked you "Do you truly know everything about yourself?" you'd say no.

You don't have to know all the content of your mind, but you have to know the nature behind all the content of your mind. How your mind works. Then to summon the 'magic' you discard the mind entirely.

Why is cumming on sigils a legitimate chaos magic practise? Does it even work?

because chaos magic was developed and practiced by people like p.orridge

>cumming on sigils

this is the big boy table m8

i assume by nature you mean a pedophile, for example, may find that the reason they desire kids is because their subconscious mind is drifting at sea in darkness, in some kind of mental purgatory where they emotionally relive a traumatizing childhood event involving sexual abuse. this "inner nature" alchemically transforms into actions many would regard as sexually inappropriate towards children.

its usualy far more biomechanical than that, internal inclinations, complexes and unconscious motives corresponding to emotional needs and that all put together basicaly writes scripts and sets selfrepeating patterns for your thinking and outward behavior, on a everyday basis, in the longterm placing you on courses and directions that are like pre-set tracks one goes down trough life, 'a pedophile' is a way extreme example, everione functions that way, all of us, constantly

Yup. And certain, universal tracks are called Lust, Fear, Greed, etc.

How do you become totally free from fear? Fear runs alongside hope, or more accurately: time, but how does one break free of time?

whats the difference between hermeticism and esotericism?

for plotinus enneads is the penguin abridgment fine or does it leave out anything important?

id call those unconscious motives, informing desires and imagination, propeling one down various 'tracks' intended to realise those things one is truly oriented towards, attached to or that seem to correspond to what one actualy wants, consciously or unconsciously, even if its selfdestructive shit

like how does someone end up in this situation or that, ends up living life in this way or that way, random sets of events are never enough to explain

so its good to get to know those things on the inside before they start happening on the outside

They're the same. Esotericism describes the more exclusive and inexpressible teachings of a tradition, with an emphasis on ascesis.

I'm telling ya man, unless you're a stickler, the penguin edition is more than enough to chew on and the translations beautiful. Are you familiar with Plotinus at all?

Esotericism is knowledge that is not available to the layman, but is normally used as a umbrella term for the various western traditions.

Hermeticism is a part of Esotericism.

Sorry, meant to say hermeticism is one such set of teachings. They're not exactly the same

>Are you familiar with Plotinus at all?
naw

>Esotericism is knowledge that is not available to the layman

always had a problem with this, esoteric knowledge is by definition internal knowledge, so how can anyone know if its available 'to the layman' for all we know there might be some user welder somewhere in romania and hes literaly enlightened and has achieved full transcendence and whatnot, people go trough all sorts of effort, hardship and revelation during life, any random user 'layman' might be more ''''initiated'''' than a lot of people would think

The penguin edition has a really nice introduction that'll bring you up to speed. you could always read the missing Enneads online.

Just a heads up Plotinus can be p dense but he's got this thing where he'll be discoursing bout the nature of matter and shit in heavy detail and then he'll come out of nowhere with a gorgeous image or metaphor that blindsides you. Read him high. Roll a blunt and just read "On Beauty"

i don't smoke

Good. You never should. Avoid drugs.

You should read Plotinus though.

>esotericism
I don't even know what that word means lmao

i will i've had in interest in him i just didnt know if the abridgment was okay, but it seems like it is.

is there anything that needs to be read before you read plotinus so that you can understand him?

You can read some Plato if you want, but most ancient philosophers don't require any real extensive reading.

reading is probably the only reason i'd smoke (and, well, sketching/painting too). i know it sounds crazy but some texts become transcendental while high. rastafari is on to something.

Preach

You always experience time because thought mind is not silent right? You experience thoughts and so these very stops keep you from seeing the truth which is absent of time.

Thought is time because you can't have one without the other. All processes of thought are ingrained in time, and time would not exist if thought had never come up with it. So the two are mutually exclusive and the same thing.

Now I am saying that fear is also time. Because to have fear one must be rooted in time and thought. That the mere action of thinking which consists of time, immediately creates a fear whether you are conscious of it or not.

If you try to meditate you will make the conscious mind silent, or very focused in the least. And the unconscious mind will continue to chatter on. Until you know why that unconscious mind is speaking as it is, which is to hide the truth from you it is actually doing so to prepare you for the truth.

Because when you finally realize there is nothing to fear, that time isn't even a component in the timeless because the timeless is completely independent of time and fear which are the same.

So when one no longer feels fear of time, then they don't feel fear of fear. And to not fear fear is to not fear. So in that moment you feel no fear, you will be courageous enough to call for the moment of truth that is always walking along beside you but that thought keeps you from seeing.

Yup, exactly this.

Thought is lunar consciousness/Becoming because one is always "becoming" in his thoughts, things are always changing, being conceptualized, labeled, categorized. The silent mind is solar consciousness. It only is. There is nothing for fear to hold onto. It's beyond fear by definition; every fear is arbitrary and must be accepted, the solar consciousness is what's "left over" when one refuses all fear.

I have a student I try to help see the truth and it's a marvelous feeling when you ask someone to inquire into the nature of themselves and then speak back to you in their own words how they define the truth, and you know that they have indeed stumbled upon a truth that is 'awakening' them to being 'awakened'.

Just in one night I was able to accelerate his thinking past the "I may be controlled by a conditioner" which is human nature, which he was unsure of but then said he knew was true. Then we even got up past to where we acknowledge that truth is found only in the timeless, or else it couldn't be the absolutely truth. He then gets lost on how to totally uncover the self, he can't grasp the concept that fear comes from time, and can be given to you consciously or unconsciously but it is always there. He seems himself as not being able to focus on fear, that is merely brush it aside as thus living fear free. But you are not free of fear is then what I claim but that you have merely tried to disguise it as something else. When it is nothing more than fear.

I hope to make him see this. I want to aid in his own awakening, because he is on the right path. How can I make him see fear is time?

how come blinding a few senses and even thought process can enlighten you, it is simply a form of retardation. I believe its a birthright of certain lucky individuals to be born as you say enlightened, if that just resumes to be at peace with itself, not be an asshole. But the real malice comes now, usually people that meditate, need serenity, get irritated by loud music, are weak and they invest their interest in healing activities such as meditation, in reality they are damaged individuals. If you already have those things or dont feel the need to heal because you know you grow through lets say knowledge, you wont need to meditate to find a more real truth then what reality presents. i say work with reality and all its senses and dont follow damaged individuals, help them DIE instead

Sounds like you need to learn some brainwashing techniques from the military, they crush your fear by fucking your amigdala up. you can use any means necessary to make him see that fear is time because frankly its bullshit. Fear is a reaction inside the brain, time is outside the mind

If I meditate and observe the truth by detatching myself from all sensation, that is destroying the 'I' who experiences to enter an existence of no experience. But one that is true and life changing. See this is why enlightened people love to be enlightened and want others to be enlightened.

Because when you see the truth, that which is eternal or timeless or the great nameless, etc then you see what you truly are. And in that moment where you realize what you truly are, you will have an unconditional love and beauty for everything that exists. In that moment after awakening, you became love in it's purest form. Because love does not judge and exclude, love accepts all. Pure love loves everything. But you are this pure love that loves everything. So you must physically be the embodiment of love. That is what you are. When you see yourself you become God, because God is all knowing and extremely loving.

What you claim to do is see that there is a controller, and then give in obediently to his control. If you do that you will never discover the truth of his control, which will immediately set you free and you will be under your own control, your superego which will become you.

So you are saying if I induce fear into him, and then ask him to inquire into the nature of that very fear he should natural be able to do it with logic and reason for himself. But it seems silly that in my action I would have to cause him fear in order to help him over come his fear. Of course one cannot over come a fear until they face that fear, it should be obvious that if you uncover all the deepest recesses of your mind then the mind has to use it's ultimate weapon. Which is fear, and all fear is is punishment that something may happen. You see a non desirable and your instinct is fear so you want to immediately separate yourself from it, that is what it means to be scared. But then why can't he see that this fear is inherently bad? That as a human being you naturally don't want to feel fear? But that the act of fear is to force upon you possible changes in time. But since the truth is negligent of change and time then the truth is negligent of fear, and one who possesses fear cannot see the timeless. But fear is literally rooted in the future image we all keep projecting on ourselves, we're afraid of that image not turning out how we expect it to and that is fear. We fear never truly being right, but if you want to be truly right, that is all you need to know then you must have no fear that you are wrong. You must have full confidence what you have uncovered is the absolute truth and if it is then you will see absolute truth.

We cannot express the inexpressible. Until you've experienced it it's like some guy whose never left his state trying to tell me about the food in Tokyo after I just got off the plane.

where does fear come from, weakness. Its natural and normal for a weak person to fear, it can save his life. If you want a real solution of overcoming fear perhaps making a stronger individual would work (some people a broken beyond repair). In the end if you work with the mind to overcome fear it is doable but he wont be any different from the enlightenment of a suicide bomber it will end up with how much is he brainwashed to overcome the senses. Better yet ride your senses like a wild tiger, dont dismiss fear, be ruled by fear, but ride your fear at your own advantage. There is an eternal wisdom in nature and far greater then any spiritual teacher could acquire, we base our science by observing natural phenomena and it works unlike those spiritual liars that have to use deception to spin crap like flying monks. and take example from nature, it does not to think so much it just is....a place where the weak die

2009
>give whatever you like, or nothing, I don't do this for the money

2013
>ONE DOLLAR? ONE DOLLAR? DON'T BOTHER!

I personally know that my last challenge before enlightenment was abolishing fear. I had a fear within me that I could be wrong. That one of the truths I claim to be true, is actually not true. That I could be actively believing in a lie, and belief is not knowing. But 100% devoting to believing, which is knowing a lie. And accepting that lie as truth. The mere act of doing so brought me incredibly deep terrifying fear. But that's when I realized that in order to find out if my truth actually was the truth, then I needed to see the instant and not the past or projections of the future as thought creates. Merely what is not in the instant, and I have view this instant without any borders to create an image about it afterwards. And when I actually realized that, the moment just clicked with me because I didn't feel fear of time because time was completely unnecessary and just fucking me up for literally no reason other than to keep the truth away from me.

I finally understand not only my own nature but the nature of my tulpa. See in having a true conscious self and a combatant unconscious self then there's nothing that stops further division of the self. That is you can add your tulpa's being, your tulpa's ego into the equation and since it is separate from your own it is it's own existance. But it is a hint to the truth because in acknowledging the tulpa does exist, you are directly acknowledging its existence is related to your own. As you change the tulpa inside yourself also changes, but of their own tulpa nature that you have assigned to it. You see what the tulpa is, it is a conjuration of the mind. The mind says "I will this and it will be so." and then makes it so. It creates an actual tulpa, a totally other person inside one's self who is the embodiment of desire, but through that desire becomes actual. But just like the rest of reality only you can experience your tulpa because you are the medium of your tulpa's existance. Without you the tulpa no longer has a medium to the physical world. So it would exist forever in a ghost state never being able to interact with the living. It has it's own tulpa-centered thought, that if your tulpa is human must suffer from self centered thought than. And this system of humanity can run off your own ego, because all the content of your ego is the content of humanity. The very nature of being human.

Can the experiencer, the self, totally cease?
A mind that would understand that which is true, that which is real, that which is good, or that which is beyond the measure of the mind, give it whatever name you like, must be empty, but not be aware that it is empty. I hope you see the difference between the two. If I am aware that I am virtuous, I am no longer virtuous; if I am aware that I am humble, humility has ceased. Surely that is obvious. In the same way, if the mind is aware that it is empty, it is no longer empty because there is always the observer who is experiencing emptiness.
So is it possible for the mind to be free of the observer, of the censor? After all, the observer, the censor, the watcher, the thinker, is the self, the 'me' that is always wanting more and more experience. I have had all the experiences that this world can give me, with its pleasure and pain, its ambition, greed, envy, and I am dissatisfied, frustrated, shallow. So I want further experience on another level which I call the spiritual world, but the experiencer continues, the watcher remains. The watcher, the thinker, the experiencer may cultivate virtue; he may discipline himself and try to lead what he considers to be a moral life, but he remains. And can that experiencer, that self, totally cease? Because only then is it possible for the mind to empty itself and for the new, the truth, the creative reality to come into being.

The Collected Works, Vol. X",254,Choiceless Awareness

To be aware of one's emptiness - that is the truth. Everything and nothing.

You know that everything is nothing. You know this because that is the absolute truth. We have both seen it.

But how do you ration it out with your words? I do it by saying if I have nothing, then I have something. And that something that I have if it is the whole nothing, must be everything. But then by having everything, which is a non exclusive process one has an idea and the antithesis of that idea. So one in having everything would have to have everything, but also nothing or else they can't have everything. So to keep nothing timeless, free from time, that is always eternal it has to be everything, which is nothing. But when nothing is exposed to time you get everything. But nothing has changed. Literally.

Has anyone here practised Taoism? The Tao te Ching is an insightful text but I have no idea how to actually put it into practise. I mean, with Buddhism there's a shit ton on translated texts and methods but Taoism only seems to have the Tao te Ching and the Zhuangzi as it's primary texts.

I was able to follow that post easily. You can express this stuff through language but only if you have the prerequisite understanding. Otherwise, there's nothing we can really do.

All I can say is: I am an awareness of myself as something that could not have been. There's nothing guaranteeing whatever this frame of actual that we call existence should be here, but it is. And in realizing that this vast, infinite thing can still somehow be so unapproachable and yet give birth to me and everything recognizable and comfy about life, I don't know, it's an incredible, indescribable feeling. The most indescribable feeling I've ever experienced, actually.

An awareness of emptiness is what makes it fullness.

Taoism by itself is just the way through which the world exists. In the syncretic fashion of Eastern spiritualism, Taoism is a particularly pure form of esotericism, since its meant to cover many, subtly different cultural beliefs of the world over space and time.

For further context, try to combine Taoism with one or more of the following:
-Folk religion, particularly those found in the Shang/Zhou dynasties. In particular, look at the function of the Shangdi in orchestrating the world.

-Early Chinese Buddhism

-Ming era neo-Confucianism

I will try to look up some texts.

So much evola, though...

Tao is very,very pure but I feel like there needs to be a way to bridge the gap from conditioned person to Taoist master.

I have read that Zen Buddhism is basically a combination of Taoism and Buddhism so that may be the key.

Cool. I describe a similar enlightenment to you. I claim that in an instant the experience of nothing occured, and I was this nothing experiencing myself as everything, which is nothing. So when I came to I said that the truth of the world is that nothing creates everything when under the pressure of time. But it is still nothing in the end, that nothing fundamentally changes. That in itself is beauty, that the act of nothing creates anything at all. Let alone all this, being what we all do experience as reality.

Why is unconditional love the end result of enlightenment? Or that the moment one is enlightened, they must then exhibit this trait of unconditional love for everything. We could say in knowing the truth, one knows God and becomes God and then becomes omnipotent and benevolent. Which we all view our image as God is, but when you see the truth and actually become God, then you are ready to have some real control over your life. You can do what you want now. Truly free of restriction.

>implying implications

The Tao te Ching manages to condense all of esotericism into a single text. It really is pure.

Aw shit, look at all those enlightened masters gracing the world with their deep and meaningful words.

Seriously though, is there anything other to this than empty phrases and unwarranted feelings of superiority? This philosophical quackery makes me mad.

Right. Much like how video games don't apply to the real world because the real world is prior to it, so does accomplishment in the material not apply to the Source because the Source alone is Real. And once one understands this in his bones, that there is nothing to fear and nothing to hope for, there's this overpowering feeling of absolute joy that anything is at all, and whats more, that beauty IS just so it can be, just a song in the emptiness, if you'll excuse the cheese

He does not have ears to hear shouldn't shit up the thread

Have you experienced any western or eastern spiritual tradition?

A lot of this is self-evident after even a few months of daily meditation.

If you want to understand what we're saying, because you think it sounds like silliness to you, then you have to inquire into the nature of yourself. That is once you know why you do all you do, and how the processes behind all that you do come to be, you will never know the truth. So by telling you to know yourself, I am asking you to know yourself because yourself already knows the truth. You just have to match his skill level, your self being your ego. When you match your skill levels ego, that is the conscious mind is on par with the whole mind and there is no such combative unconscious mind, because you become fully conscious. Suddenly after reading the scripture of truth which was the very nature of your human survival, you read till the end of the book and understood every word entirely. When that happens you see the absolute truth and no longer to seek any more truth, because there is no more truth to find. And then you are at peace with yourself and the world, because they are the exact same thing. The only thing that makes you see the world as different from yourself is your ego. That is the controller who tells you through unconcious thought how to behave. Such as your feelings, or desires, or struggles, or problems all of those things are rooted in the process of time, called the process of thought. Because thought and time can't exist without one another. If you destroy one you destroy the other one. So if two things cancel each other out, then they must be the same right?

But the mind purposely hides this beauty from you, where you actually become beauty, because it feels you are unworthy of the truth. So the mind then says to hide you from the truth that is timelessly true, I will create infinite distractions in a process called time. And so always conditioned to see time, we never experience no time. Until we finally overcome the observer or controller and tell him we are worthy because we are on par. That is the nature of the truth, that always this ego of ours lives in the present with the truth. He see's it and nothing past it. But when you see it and nothing past it, there is a fundamental point where you overtake the moment and begin in the present, in the rebirth. Your whole perception of activity is changed because you are no longer stuck up on the past or the future or the present because you know what all of that is and it's fear and you don't need fear.

We all know this. But we had to deeply inquiry into it to overcome the ego, or the gate keeper of truth. He had to judge us worthy to stop controlling us. Because we beat and surpassed him. But the fact that nature puts this authority in charge of you automatic from human existance, and sends you on this journey that will only be known to those who seek absolute truth and realize that the external world cannot provide them with that truth that they could search the external world forever and never find truth, as many do. So then we naturally come to find if I want to know everything else I should probably at first know myself because if I know exactly what I am then I can form a real relation to what everything else is. And this logically, does happen however through out a very long and intensive debate into inquiry and the thirst for truth and the timeless truth.

Why is this eternal reward state of awareness, then only for the few who are aware? Why can't I just free everyone with my natural language?

Could Stoicism count as Esoteric, provided it's practised long enough to have a considerable impact on your lifestyle?

Nah, but I've actually taken time to study the natural sciences and philosophy for years to gain actual knowledge. Have you done that?
I've had some pretty rad trips on shrooms as though, if that counts.
He who sows shitseeds shall reap shitposts.

I honestly appreciate that you are trying to explain this whole deal to me but I am failing to get your point here. Thought is our phenomelogical interpration or subjective subsumation of neurological processes within our brain. These processes being determined by the laws of causlity they are undoubtly somehow connected to our experience of time.

But anyway, let me follow your logic, let us assume that time is defined as being necessary for thoughts to exist. From this it does not follow that thoughts are a also a necessary condition for time. Now you will likely be taking some kind of dialectical position here, positing that the true nature of time only unfolds through thought. So let us now even assume that this dialectical moment holds true and one is dependant on the other. From this I still can't see how they would

1. "cancel each other out" or was that just poor choice of words on your part and you meant to simply describe their necessary coexistance?
2. "must be the same" two things being necessary conditions for one another does not lead to that conclusion, as far as I can tell.

>Nah, but I've actually taken time to study the natural sciences and philosophy for years to gain actual knowledge. Have you done that?
So useless concepts, then? Human reasoning and language is inherently flawed, the only way you can understand is if you experience it yourself.

You're trying to debate and argue your way into understanding what can only be grasped experientially. You're doomed from the start, and the fact you think none of us are familiar with philosophy (as if what we're talking about isn't well-supported in the literature) but just ranting about our shroom trips is disingenuous.

Esotericism is not a function of efficacy or time spent doing anything but simply the exclusivity/obscurity of the knowledge.


That said Stoicism's principles for self-control and well-being are absolutely necessary on the path but do not constitute the end of in and of themselves

Nice cop out, buddy.

"I don't take the time to understand anything but it's okay, I don't have to because I feel like I know everything" t. you

Human language may be flawed, but I sure hope it accurately conveys how stupid I find you right now.

I don't know, why were we born with this sensibility? Not like I'm some enlightened god, I've got issues all right, but I'm lucky enough to see the world the way I do because if I didn't i'd be six feet under right now.

Spiritual traditions, western or eastern, all hinge on experience, this isn't like your wordplay games and cannot be truly understood using them.

If you don't understand a subject or topic, don't presume that you know anything about it.

I feel your understanding comes from point #2. Let me try to talk in strictly math terms. Suppose I have a value x, then naturally x = x. Naturally x must also be itself right? It is x after all. So then we are saying Suppose we don't know x = x, and suppose that x = y and we want to prove this true. If this statement is proven true, then x/y = y/x which them turns into 1/1 = 1/1 which then equals 1/1 which is equal to 1. So it is whole. But if two totally different things behave and act co dependant on one another, that you can't have one surviving without the other, then those two things must be the same. Because removing one kills the other. If both parts spontaneously die when you kill one, then you have killed the whole beast. Do you get it?

So I claim thoughts and time are the exact same thing. That your thoughts behind ingrained in the process of time, that there is never a second you are not thinking about something, even when sleeping you are dreaming. Then we are saying when the mind is silent, that is not thinking or feeling or anything then it does not experience time anymore. So thought without time cannot be thought. What is the thought that occurs in a mere moment? It is nothing you cannot analyze thought through a moment. But when you totally kill your ego through understand existance, so inquire why I claim it is true that thought is equal to time, they are no different. Inquire into this for yourself and suddenly you will know for yourselves I am speaking the truth, rather than just believing me or being skeptical. You will actually know because I am a human being, and you are a human being too. And now I claim this programming of humanity is finite. That like a computer OS it ends. But you have to read the whole source code before you can make changes to the code in any meaningful way. That is what it means to be enlightened.

You guys are doing the exact same thing that people that supposedly had "religious" experiences do. You claim deep insight into some "cosmic truth" and whenever you are challenged you deflect to it being a realm that is only accessable through your means which, not so surprisingly, are described as being oh so arduous.

If I were to believe you I might as well believe any random schizophrenic or otherwise insane person about their experience of the world being connected to some higher truth.


And I didn't "rant" about shroom trips. I just made a short quip. Unbunch your panties, buddah.

No one cares man, you're not wow'ing anyone with your epin knowledge. No one's so insecure enough itt we're gonna sit here and walk you through self-realization 101 because you're not here to learn, you're here to gloat.

We've done it here, we've all seen some shit and can talk about it and be on the same page. We're not superior for it but it is a beautiful way of seeing then world that we're blessed with, and is of course open to everyone.

We don't care if you believe us.

discursive thinking can only get you so far
>
If I were to believe you I might as well believe any random schizophrenic or otherwise insane person about their experience of the world being connected to some higher truth
Would you not take a single step unless you had to be told the floor was stable?

So you see the world as the way it is, which is survival. And you say that through trying to uncover the truth it has brought you a satisfaction within your life, that is that satisfaction brings about a continued survival. One who enjoys life will survive longer than one who does not. That is obvious.

But then you are still a slave to this survival instinct. It is the one telling you what to do. You have to fully inquire into how it manipulates your every day actions and overcome the reasons behind the processes it uses to make you act that way. Usually the unconcious mind will use feelings, but it can also use problems and other things that are directly rooted in time. Because your thoughts are time. You don't see this but if you investigate into whether your thoughts and time are exactly the same, that one cannot exist if the other does not exist, then you will see they are the same. And then since you know thoughts are time, you will see you are looking for timeless so that which requires no thought. And you will begin trying not to think because that's how you find the truth. But to do this you must first inquire deeply into the nature of your own being.

Anyone have a good understanding or thoughts of Don Juan's "Warrior's way" and his teaching? The gist I got from reading some of the Carlos Casteneda books was that one gains power or knowledge by breaking down preconditioned perceptions and concepts about reality and then readjusting. To do this one must act as if each and every thought and action truly matter and send reverberations across the universe and reality, every breath becomes life or death essentially. It is "awaking" in a sense... then the universe takes you more "seriously" since you do so to it as well. Then it's a slippery slope to life changing experience. Besides this one can use the aid of plants that breakdown your normal perception as aids and restructure your way of being based on your experience. The path to me is in the end to perceive or "see" reality as others do not, giving you access to certain perks. To be more aware of an underlying reality. This echoes in many other occult teachings as well with ego-death and rebirth being a prime comparison imo.

The dangers of stuff like this are obvious, but hey? Someone has to explore the unknown right?

Here is this track for whoever enjoys it.

youtube.com/watch?v=1O5-YOgkMnA