torque is more important than horsepower

comparing different horsepower figures given the same weight, obviously.

comparing just torque for the same car means nothing without more information.

>comparing different horsepower figures given the same weight, obviously.

horsepower and torque are both important.

or torque and RPM. vice versa

>315 hp 345 ft-lb here

naturally aspirated

t. miatacuck

same thing with horse power. It won't tell you anything about acceleration.

> tfw no miata

how so?

if you know how much horsepower you make, you know how much torque you're applying to the wheels per second. That can give you a rough estimate of possible acceleration. Torque cannot do the same, unless you also know the RPM, in which case you just have horsepower again.

ever drive a semi with no trailer?
if you know which gears to skip you'll outrun most things on the road without going over 2250 rpm

>horsepower at least gives you a measure
horsepower is literally torque * RPM

if you're talking peak figures for either torque or horsepower both are fairly meaningless

> what is the difference between 1-dimensional and 2-dimensional units

Not really. In your mind (in most peoples mind) higher hosrsepower brings the expectation/assumption of a fast accelerating car. But it can also mean a car that takes 7.8 seconds to reach 60mph. It COULD mean a car that reaches 60mph at 3.2 seconds. You'll never know until you know.

One can be accurately used to describe engine power, one is dependent on another variable.

An electric motor is making its full torque at 0, if you use a CVT to keep it spinning at 1rpm it will have no horsepower and yet will move.

>One can be accurately used to describe engine power, one is dependent on another variable.
Horsepower is a unit of POWER, and torque is a unit of force times distance, so no, horsepower.

Horsepower is LITERALLY how much torque you apply per unit time. I'm only saying that since already incorporates torque, it is a more useful measurement (if only marginally so).

> tfw typos
dammit

Jesus christ dude. Obviously there are other variables. 'm just saying that if you only know torque, there is one less variable taken into account of, versus horsepower, when considering possible acceleration.

>An electric motor is making its full torque at 0, if you use a CVT to keep it spinning at 1rpm it will have no horsepower and yet will move.

> 1rpm
> 0 horsepower

that's literally impossible you know

Are you fucking retarded? The engine would still produce horsepower, otherwise it would have zero fucking torque. And an electric motor that isn't rotating doesn't produce any work hence zero hp and the car doesn't move.

>An electric motor is making its full torque at 0
love this me.me

HP and Tq figures are for bench racers. Pic related is more important

Retard, power is torque x rpm.
There is no power without torque, torque is the unit of work the horsepower of kilowatt or ps or whatever the fuck you want is all based off of.

Newton meter, foot pound, it's all work over a distance, but you don't need a rotational speed in order to measure this.

Nigger it doesn't matter, it'll be making so little power it rounds down to 0.

My point is there is literally ONLY torque

Except every car with real power is using a powerglide so you have 2 gears.
Real important, whoa

>using a cvt to hold an electric motor at 1rpm
why not just tell the control unit to hold it at 1rpm you dumb fuck?
not even gonna address the rest of that bullshit lol

It does if it's under load.

If it's just not on then yeaah obviously that's retarded.

Because then you don't gain speed, moron.

The point of this is that horsepower literally does not matter, an electric motor attached to a CVT can be outputting

>but you don't need a rotational speed in order to measure this
In which case there is no fucking horsepower, no work is performed, and the car doesn't fucking move. No RPM, no time, no power. We are speaking of the work the car performs here.

>The point of this is that horsepower literally does not matter, an electric motor attached to a CVT can be outputting

See:

If your car is accelerting that fast at 1RPM then the motor has absurd torque and would still produce more HP than the slower accelerating car. What you propose is idiotic and defies physics. Power=energy. The end.

are you feeling okay user? have you bumped your head?

Thats false tho. If your car produces .5 hp of energy you cannot add more energy to accelerate a car than an engine with more horsepower. You simply don't understand the math you are claiming. Horsepower=energy to accelerate vehicle. You cannot accelerate faster by adding less energy. Ever.

> b-but you need torque to have horsepower

We're talking in two different directions. You can't calculate horsepower without torque yes, so in that sense, torque is more important, but you can't do much with only knowing torque. You need to understand how fast an engine is turning to determine how much work it can do over time.

This is why horsepower is a more useful number. It incorporates torque and rpm in one number, so it conveys more useful information.

it seems the conversation has moved on from what you can calculate and how

I have a physics degree.

>an electric motor attached to a CVT can be outputting

Then you should be fucking ashamed that you don't understand the simple principles of power. I mean you literally are telling us that adding less power to a system means it will gain kinetic energy faster than by adding more power.

Newton wants to have a talk with you and your University want's its B.S. back.

>I mean you literally are telling us that adding less power to a system means it will gain kinetic energy faster than by adding more power.

I'm not saying anything like that at all.

> tfw no 10,000ft-lb at 0.1 RPM motor

A motor with .5hp will never accelerate a vehicle faster than an engine producing 500hp. You are hopelessly retarded.

maybe if the 500hp engine was moving an ocean tanker and the .5 was moving a person on a scooter. Maybe that's what he's comparing?

course it can if it has all that torque
you're just not a progressive thinker like him

Assuming, of course, the same gearing used between both input and output.

Which is irrelevant as you measure the power outputted at the wheels. You don't correct for gearing in the real world, only to make pretty dyno charts.

lol how big would this engine have to be

idk but it would make almost no hp.
the largest diesels in the world make around 100k hp, but turn at 100rpm.

doesn't make sense to bring gearing into it in this instance unless you want to talk about a 500hp engine so far out of it's powerband in which case you say so.. "an engine actually making

Stop getting so cucked up on horsepower. It is simply a unit of measure. The magnitude compared to the magnitude of torque is irrelevant and not comparable.
>yfw 1 foot = 12 inches
Same shit, doesn't matter

horsepower matters dude. it's twisting force in relation to time. we don't live in a single instant, we live relative to time. hp matters

?
that was my point in making the whole damn thread.

comparing torque and horsepower is retarded, but if you can only have one of them, take horsepower.

No, power matters. (Horse)power is simply one way to express it. How large or small that value is is quite irrelevant as you can't use the magnitude of one unit of measure and compare it to another like it matters.
Then you aren't the physics degreed retard. My bad.

> engine 1 makes 200ft-lbs at 2000rpm
> engine 2 makes 200ft-lbs at 3000rpm

according to , these two engines will accelerate at the same rate.

bravo Veeky Forums

Literally all I'm saying is that an electric motor makes torque at 0 rpm. I have no idea where you're getting all this other shit from.

Granted, but that's now how anons statement was worded.

I'm not arguing the claim made by the OP of this train of fucking morons, simply the one post.

And at zero RPMs a vehicle does not accelerate. In addition, a gasoline engine also produces torque at zero RPMs otherwise it would never be able to speed up or start. If you aren't the .5hp retarded then my bad I got your response to the post above confused as the guy responded to two.
This. What an asshat.

> In addition, a gasoline engine also produces torque at zero RPMs

Actually, that's not true, which is why you use a electric starter motor or hand crank it. It can't start itself.

>It can't start itself.
but electric motors can?
torque at 0rpm means one thing - it won't roll down a hill with the handbrake off.

thats more of a consequence of design and fuel delivery systems. if you primed a cylinder with fuel at the correct crank position and ignited it would acclerate, but point well made.

so what you're saying is electric motors can make power without spinning?

They can provide torque without spinning, yes.

That isn't necessarily true for all electric motors. A rotor most certainly can get stuck between permanent magnets in an AC engine and draw massive current and fry itself. I'm not an electrical engineer mind you but an AC motors rotation direction is more or less random based on rotor position. There most certainly is a dead spot?

IDK, been a while since I was in school

how useful is that?

Which would mean they produce no power. At some level, even microscopic, there must be deformation allowing rotation to occur otherwise the engine would never be able to accelerate?

IDK, getting way to theoretical for me here

the idea is the same as pushing against something without it moving. as soon as it moves you're making power.

You can't separate any of these terms and concepts from one another and end up with anything meaningful. Jesus...I love you Veeky Forums but, cum on!

Only thing that truly matters is a linear power band. Usually this implies equal-ish hp/torque

this. I feel like bmw is really good at this

It implies nothing of the sort

Gm as well

...

yeah gm ones are nice.

on the other hand we have the brz...

God I just don't understand how that car can be so shitty yet people still buy them.

That was not the question.
Power is a measure of torque.
>Even microscopic
No, an invisible level. Learn how electric engines work.

I feel like me arguing points other than the focus of your guys points is going over everyones heads.

you can get rid of the torque dip with a tune from what i've heard

>power is a measure of torque
>what is a follow up question
dude shut the fuck up

>Power is a measure of torque
No, it most certainly is not.
> Learn how electric engines work.
I know how they work asshole. The point is if the engine truly is at zero RPMs it will never be able to accelerate. At some level imperceptible to the human eye there is rotation due to deflection.
This comes from the same idiots who buy these cars tho. From what I can tell it is due to shitty exhaust

they're not shitty though. great for touge

If you have a high torque car, chances are it's larger displacement and doesn't rev to the moon. If you have a car with very high hp in relation to torque, chances are it's small displacement. Gear the large displacemen car taller and the small displacement car shorter.

End of the fucking argument.