Why people condemn that attack on Pearl Harbor while the British did the same thing once against Denmark...

I'm talking about Mers el Kebir.

Because of muh sneak attack on US mainland meme.
Most people don't realize that
>PacFleet was not normally stationed on Pearl Harbor
>there were more Japs than Americans in Hawaii
>Hawaii was a territory and would not become a state for another 20 years
>US had been maneuvering Japan into a war step by step

Kind of this, its the same reason why they also believe in the Black Legend and demonise Napoleon while praising the British Empire

As a guy who hates how Weebs try to make Japan to be the victim I actually agree with this, Japan wasn't a victim in WW2 but this overall idea that America was completely innocent is nothing more but a nationalistic meme

American here. Only bitch niggas condemn Pearl Harbor. Legit target, legit attack.

>be military base
>be unprepared for military action

They had to deny the Nazis the ships

>we dindu nuffin we wuz good boys
Nips were warmongering cunts, US had the right to embargo them

It's because the history books only focus on the wrongs done to Americans and Anglos while they just gloss over questionable acts done by Anglos. Really makes you think who's of stuff...

>PacFleet was not normally stationed on Pearl Harbor
Tensions were high, I don't know why this is unexpected.
>there were more Japs than Americans in Hawaii
How is this relevant? What is it trying to imply?
>Hawaii was a territory and would not become a state for another 20 years
I didn't know that it was okay to bomb territories without a declaration war but not states.
>US had been maneuvering Japan into a war step by step
Don't invade China if you don't want to get embargoed.

I don't condemn shit.

War is war. Everything is fair game.

This, we shouldn't bother with bullshit like the red cross and the Geneva convention, just gas the shit out of cities and shoot any of those medics you find.

If you're talking about that time in WW2, if you seriously think that it would have been a good idea for Britain to let the French fleet fall into the Nazi's hands then you are a complete tool. Two years later at Toulon the Nazis DID in fact try to seize the fleet, proving that that Britain's actions were totally and completely justified.

>lets just hand a bunch of ships over to the enemy after offering the crews the opportunity to continue to fight alongside us and they flatly refused

This. Sometimes you have to make hard decisions in war, this one turned out to be a good choice

Same reason you faggots bitch about a few hundred thousand atomized chinks.

Never met anyone that wasn't American who gave a shit about pearl harbor.

Never understood why Americans were still butthurt about it when you nuked the Japs twice though.

>declare war on the US
>the US intentionally keeps your ambassadors from delivering their message
>call it a """sneak attack"""

I'm an American and I've never met anyone who gave a shit about Pearl Harbor.

That will probably change when hollywood releases another movie about it.

source?

They're more likely to make some nuke apologist bullshit these days.

oh bullshit. they declared war just in time for it to technically be before the attack but not long enough for the message to actually fucking reach the US government

>Tensions were high, I don't know why this is unexpected.
Tensions were high BECAUSE the USN put the PacFleet in a threatening position. Japan, as the much weaker power, was never going to attack unless it was cornered.

>How is this relevant? What is it trying to imply?
You really can't figure it out yourself?

>I didn't know that it was okay to bomb territories without a declaration war but not states.
Strawman.

>Don't invade China if you don't want to get embargoed.
Spotted the Chink. US did not embargo Japan for China. China was invaded in early 30s and then later in 1937. US didn't give a shit about that, though, because who cares if a couple million slanteyes get raped and slaughtered like pigs. What did force the US's hand, though, was Japan moving against French Indochina and likely doing the same against Dutch and British colonies while Europe is embroiled in a war.

>iraq 2003
>sneak attack

>us didn't give a shit about China
"At the outset, U.S. officials viewed developments in China with ambivalence. On the one hand, they opposed Japanese incursions into northeast China and the rise of Japanese militarism in the area, in part because of their sense of a longstanding friendship with China. On the other hand, most U.S. officials believed that it had no vital interests in China worth going to war over with Japan. Moreover, the domestic conflict between Chinese Nationalists and Communists left U.S. policymakers uncertain of success in aiding such an internally divided nation. As a result, few U.S. officials recommended taking a strong stance prior to 1937, and so the United States did little to help China for fear of provoking Japan. U.S. likelihood of providing aid to China increased after July 7, 1937, when Chinese and Japanese forces clashed on the Marco Polo Bridge near Beijing, throwing the two nations into a full-scale war. As the United States watched Japanese forces sweep down the coast and then into the capital of Nanjing, popular opinion swung firmly in favor of the Chinese. Tensions with Japan rose when the Japanese Army bombed the U.S.S. Panay as it evacuated American citizens from Nanjing, killing three. The U.S. Government, however, continued to avoid conflict and accepted an apology and indemnity from the Japanese. An uneasy truce held between the two nations into 1940."

"In 1940 and 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt formalized U.S. aid to China. The U.S. Government extended credits to the Chinese Government for the purchase of war supplies, as it slowly began to tighten restrictions on Japan. The United States was the main supplier of the oil, steel, iron, and other commodities needed by the Japanese military as it became bogged down by Chinese resistance but, in January, 1940, Japan abrogated the existing treaty of commerce with the United States. Although this did not lead to an immediate embargo, it meant that the Roosevelt Administration could now restrict the flow of military supplies into Japan and use this as leverage to force Japan to halt its aggression in China."

"After January 1940, the United States combined a strategy of increasing aid to China through larger credits and the Lend-Lease program with a gradual move towards an embargo on the trade of all militarily useful items with Japan. The Japanese Government made several decisions during these two years that exacerbated the situation. Unable or unwilling to control the military, Japan’s political leaders sought greater security by establishing the “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere” in August, 1940. In so doing they announced Japan’s intention to drive the Western imperialist nations from Asia. However, this Japanese-led project aimed to enhance Japan’s economic and material wealth so that it would not be dependent upon supplies from the West, and not to “liberate” the long-subject peoples of Asia. In fact, Japan would have to launch a campaign of military conquest and rule, and did not intend to pull out of China. At the same time, several pacts with Western nations only made Japan appear more of a threat to the United States. First, Japan signed the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy on September 27, 1940 and thereby linked the conflicts in Europe and Asia. This made China a potential ally in the global fight against fascism. Then in mid-1941, Japan signed a Neutrality Pact with the Soviet Union, making it clear that Japan’s military would be moving into Southeast Asia, where the United States had greater interests. A third agreement with Vichy France enabled Japanese forces to move into Indochina and begin their Southern Advance. The United States responded to this growing threat by temporarily halting negotiations with Japanese diplomats, instituting a full embargo on exports to Japan, freezing Japanese assets in U.S. banks, and sending supplies into China along the Burma Road."

"Although negotiations restarted after the United States increasingly enforced an embargo against Japan, they made little headway. Diplomats in Washington came close to agreements on a couple of occasions, but pro-Chinese sentiments in the United States made it difficult to reach any resolution that would not involve a Japanese withdrawal from China, and such a condition was unacceptable to Japan’s military leaders.
Faced with serious shortages as a result of the embargo, unable to retreat, and convinced that the U.S. officials opposed further negotiations, Japan’s leaders came to the conclusion that they had to act swiftly. For their part, U.S. leaders had not given up on a negotiated settlement, and also doubted that Japan had the military strength to attack the U.S. territory. Therefore they were stunned when the unthinkable happened and Japanese planes bombed the U.S. fleet at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. The following day, the United States declared war on Japan, and it soon entered into a military alliance with China. When Germany stood by its ally and declared war on the United States, the Roosevelt Administration faced war in both Europe and Asia."

>the us didn't care about China
Shut the fuck up faggot.

There was no danger of the French fleet falling into Nazi hands, the terms of the armistice specifically guaranteed its independence, and it was in Algeria far from Toulon. The only question was whether Darlan would obey Vichy orders of neutrality, or disobey and join the British and Free French. The destruction of his fleet made up his mind in a hurry.

Are you illiterate? Your 4 dumb posts basically prove that US didn't give a rat's ass about million dead chinks. Case in point: sure, US let China buy some weapons, except when Britain was invaded those weapons, which China had already bought, were sent directly to British garrison. Doesn't sound like China was on top of US's list of people to care about to me.

Also
>"After January 1940, the United States combined a strategy of increasing aid to China through larger credits and the Lend-Lease program with a gradual move towards an embargo on the trade of all militarily useful items with Japan.
There was no lend-lease in January 1940.

This picture symbolizes US foreign policy toward China in the wake of Nanking rape.

>sure, US let China buy some weapons...

opinion discarded

I believe what I quoted was lumping in aid to China prior to Lend Lease with the program as a whole, in effect very little changed except the amount of credit allowed to the Chinese was increased after the Lend Lease Act was passed. You're getting hung up over the name as if that changes the fact China received the 4th most aid from the US in ww2.

>America didn't want to go to war over China and wanted to continue its lucrative trade with Japana
>attempts to de escalate the situation in Asia
so Japan stops trying to conquer China while the US can continue trade with Japan
>sends millions of dollars of aid to China even though China can't actually pay for any of it
>lets China acrue debt and conveniently forgets most of it
>gives massive discounts on materiel
>eventually just starts giving China stuff for free
>sends over tons of mercenaries and trainers to help the Chinese
>this means they didn't care about China because they didn't immediately go to war

How many countries on the planet do you think the US would have stopped lucrative trade for? That list was very short. Chinese and American relations were quite positive at the time, had been ever since the Boxer Rebellion. Most countries, especially the anti war US, were not willing to go to war over a fight far far away from them.
It took Hitler taking from 4 countries before the UK and French decided enough was enough, and they were basically neighbors to them all. The US was half a world away from China and was on reasonably good terms with the Japanese. It wasn't until the 40s that US-Japanese relations start to just implode, before that there was a slow turn against the Japanese by the US as a whole, specifically because of the war in China, and the US being much more partial towards China than Japan.
Shut the fuck up retard.

There was no chance of the Nazis getting the ships. There was however a good chance of the French navy helping defeat the Nazis.

Full retard. Nobody asked "the crews", and the only thing Darlan refused was putting the fleet under English command.

>There was no chance of the Nazis getting the ships

If you were willing to take Hitler's word, and what idiot on Earth would do that.

>It is impossible for us, your comrades up to now, to allow your fine ships to fall into the power of the German enemy. We are determined to fight on until the end, and if we win, as we think we shall, we shall never forget that France was our Ally, that our interests are the same as hers, and that our common enemy is Germany. Should we conquer we solemnly declare that we shall restore the greatness and territory of France. For this purpose we must make sure that the best ships of the French Navy are not used against us by the common foe. In these circumstances, His Majesty's Government have instructed me to demand that the French Fleet shall act in accordance with one of the following:
(a) Sail with us and continue the fight until victory against the Germans.
(b) Sail with reduced crews under our control to a British port. The reduced crews would be repatriated at the earliest moment.

If either of these courses is adopted by you we will restore your ships to France at the conclusion of the war or pay full compensation if they are damaged meanwhile.
(c) Alternatively if you feel bound to stipulate that your ships should not be used against the Germans lest they break the Armistice, then sail them with us with reduced crews to some French port in the West Indies where they can be demilitarised to our satisfaction, or perhaps be entrusted to the United States and remain safe until the end of the war, the crews being repatriated. If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.

Darlan refused putting the fleet under English command because it was the only option given to him by Admiral Gensoul. He was not made aware of the option to sail the fleet to US waters, an option that Darlan told Gensoul to follow should he find himself in this exact situation.

In short, the British attacked the French because Gensoul was being a complete fucking idiot

It's impressive how quickly you go from
>US embargoed Japan because Japan was mean to China
to
>b-b-but other countries also didn't care about shitty countries being bullied
But whatever makes you sleep at night, chink. Just know that all those millions of dollars of aid didn't happen until a decade into Japanese expansion into China. If you can somehow twist that into US loves China and went to war for us chinks narrative, good for you I guess.

That's not what I said at all. You seem to think I made a claim I never once made, perhaps you have me confused for someone else.
I quoted a passage, which outlined how the US gradually shifted from a pro Asian to a pro Chinese anti Japanese slant over a period of a great many years of escalation, sanctions, foreign aid and eventual military posturing until Japan did the unthinkable and attack instead of de escalating as the US wished for them to do.
You are a bonafide retard for thinking that because the US did not instant invade Japan for them starting a local conflict the US did not care about China, when all of history, from words to actions, point to the US caring a great deal about China. But the US cared a great deal about the UK and yet did not jump into war when they started a war. Did not jump to France's aid when it was invaded and subjugated.
The US lent material support, condemnations, and imposed sanctions upon the aggressors, but until it was directly attacked had essentially 0 desire to join in any wars, let alone start one. This is not a sign a nation does not care, and I find it hard to believe anyone could be dumb enough to interpret this in such a way.

Also the U.S. Navy attacked a Japanese fort in the 1800's with no warning. Killed thousands of Japanese troops. This is where the Japanese Navy learned about how to declare war. Just following our example.

I'm pretty sure most historians don't condone the British attacks on Denmark

Oh please, Boney and the Brits both were pricks during that time, the only countries worthy of praise were Spain and Austria.

You're aware the cowardly Brits did jack shit about the real French fleet, right?
It was anchored in mainland France, so it would have implied coming back near the continent and facing the Krauts in Europe, something the Brits couldnt bring themselves to do until Daddy America joined the war

Instead, they attacked six French ships anchored in Algeria and the massive French fleet in Toulon had to be scuttled by Vichy sailors when the Germans tried to take over it in 1942

>approaching within coastal distance of a large, officially hostile fleet, with German U-Boats swarming the area and positioning warships well within striking distance of T-boats, land based aircraft, and of course all those fuckin U-boats
>this is bravery
>not stupidity

Let me tell you folks, the real stupidity was your post.

>Austria
>Who is Hitler