Are there any Orthodox churches that don't hate gays and trans/are at least marginally socially progressive?
The Pope is a two faced bastard who praises LGBT one moment and pisses on them the next. I know there's some socially progressive Protestant churches, but there's way more that are just plain bat shit crazy.
Bart I and the Russians hate gays but what about the other Orthodox and Eastern churches?
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Yup, they shit on them as well.
The orthodox churches are pretty hardcore, they don't mince words
>The Pope is a two faced bastard who praises LGBT one moment and pisses on them the next.
He said the Church accepts gays as long as they repent and abandon their sodomite ways. He said basically the same thing about atheists, it's your fault for jumping to conclusions.
>progressive Orthodox churches
lolno
also you don't really get to choose your church/bishop
Well there's a reason they're Orthodox. But they don't hate gays. Except maybe Russia, but church policy isn't to hate gays. Homosexuality is a sin, and all sin is hated, but gays themselves are loved like the children of God they are. It's like divorce: divorce is hated by God, but those who get divorces are still loved. I'm assuming this atleast, I'm Protestant, but I would imagine it's largely the same.
You can worship poz, or you can worship God, you cannot serve two masters.
Speaking as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, this is the official church doctrine, but I would say many of our clergy do unfortunately allow cultural biases to taint their outlook on the matter.
Culturally speaking, for many Orthodox countries, homophobia and other kinds of discrimination are rampant, and if you're a practicing / out-of-the-closet sexual deviant you're shunned and disliked. Usually the danger to such people comes not from the church but from reactionary gangs who beat and murder them.
The Russian Church has become a tool of the state and is prone to making such statements because they no longer really care about their canon but have been usurped by political interests. Russia has a weird brand of Nationalism powered by Communist nostalgia, revanchist sentiment and "traditionalist" values so the perception of religiosity is more important than actual belief (there is a lot of virtue-signalling going on).
What are some Buddhist and Hindu sects that accept non-vegs? I mean want to convert but they need to change their millenia-old customs and beliefs first or else I'm gonna prosecute/lobby against them.
First you are a stupid faggot, and the world would be better off with you. Second most Buddhist and Hindu sects are not vegetarian. Chinese, Japanese, and Indians eat meat.
often only people who have taken tonsure abstain from meat
Commie scum
>the point
>your head
is trying to make a point about how Protestant denominations and some Catholics are caving into contemporary trends and sensibilities about their ethics in order to remain relevant.
>faggot
Wow how do you put up with being such a biggot? I just can't right now...
>Not getting it.
If you don't agree with the tenets of the religion look for another religion, don't expect them to change them to suit you.
I'm not, I am pointing out there are Buddhist sects where only people who have taken tonsure abstain from meat.
>socially progressive
Tolerating evil isn't progressive.
>The Pope is a two faced bastard who praises LGBT one moment and pisses on them the next
He doesn't praise the LGBT movement, he says homosexuals should be treated like people instead of marginalised
I'm a bigot and proud. I am a bigot against evil and degeneracy.
>Bart I hates gays
Bartholomew is probably one of the most 'liberal' voices in the orthodox church.
>Are there any heretical Orthodox churches.
No.
That isn't really heresy. No ecumenical council has ever issued a definitive statement on it.
...
The fedora only applies to atheists.
Fair enough. I'm sure I don't need to tell you about the Protestant secs that literally hate gays. If I'm correct, only members of the Church can receive Communion right? I can imagine that if you're a practicing gay, you would be denied Communion in the Orthodox Church.
All
Who cares what men say? I don't worship men, i care what God has to say.
>Who cares what men say? I don't worship men, i care what God has to say.
Ecumenical Councils are guided by the holy spirit. They're infallible. I suppose you deny the trinity, too?
Ecumenical councils are not automatically infallible, they must accurately reflect scripture. The seventh council is an example of a failed council.
Ecumenical councils which don't accurately reflect scripture/are heretical are not valid ecumenical councils.
So then scripture > church? Might you say scripture alone is the base of dogma?
No. Scripture and Tradition are the bedrock of dogma.
How do you know what tradition is valid? By who won the subsequent war? Is Gods law decided by force of arms?
What tradition was used at Nicaea?
What is the Orthodox view on evolution?
Is one view larger than the other?
Does that divide happen at a congregational level or at a "church" level ie Russian Orthodox are dualists whilst greeks are compatibalists?
>How do you know what tradition is valid?
Consensus, alignment with scriptures, statement of synods and ecumenical councils, statements by reputable saints/church fathers, et. al.
Christian tradition, as I understand it, is just the oral teachings of Christ and the apostles.
Tradition was around before the scripture was. When heretical and gnostic gospels were circling around, tradition helped to distinguish which ones were heretical and which ones were bona fide, because the people had heard he teachings from students of students of Jesus and the apostles. There shouldn't be contradiction between tradition and scripture as some proddies so sharply put it.
Everything there but scripture is begging the question, "tradition is valid because tradition reveals it"
Scripture was there while Paul was still alive
>do you know what tradition is valid?
Through self reference: tradition is correct because tradition says it is correct.
"Tradition comes from specific Church Fathers and documents attributed to them and we know that these specific traditions and documents are the truth because that is what weve done traditionally"
not sure i'm not orthodox
at least some of them seem to consider american protestant creationism paganism
silouanthompson.net
oca.org
Isnt circular reasoning the same?
Yes but the NT canon was only defined in the 4th century, and that by tradition.
1 Timothy 5:18 refers to Luke 10:7 as scripture
ah yes
one portion of canon self-references another portion of canon, therefore canon predates the establishment of canon.
the way that Russia is utilizing nostalgia for the USSR for nationalist purposes is so bizarre. it's like none of them even remember what communism is about.
To the Orthodox anons who werent born into the Church how did you come to be a member of it and how did your fellow converts (if any)
It doesn't just reference it, it calls it scripture, a synonym of canon
>how did you come to be a member of it
I investigated the historical claims of the Eastern Church and compared them to the claims of the church in which I was born (the RCC). I found the eastern claim to apostolic lineage in both theology and ecclesiology more legitimate. To be fair, I stopped being a practicing catholic a few years before.
i've always been a huge byzantineaboo my local church was impressed by knowledge of the ERE
it's a LARP session i don't actually believe
>theology
But Filioque is biblical
There were many books floating around at the time. some were accepted by most, some by a few. They were not set in stone until later on. Several picks, such as revelations were controversial
If the Pope was in the room with any ten historical Popes they'd lynch his ass faster than you can say Hail Mary
The greek translated into scripture from that passage is: γραφή, a writing.
The filioque impairs the monarchy of the father and has little to no basis in scripture.
>muh greek
The KJV is the infallible word of God
The dozens of experts in greek who translated it know better than you
Are you saying 1 Timothy isn't canon?
>The KJV is the infallible word of God
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me
John 15:26
Rejection of the Filioque is crypto-Arianism
Your logic is lacking. So Timothy references Luke as scripture. But what can we infer from that? That Luke is canon because Timothy says it is? But what authority does Timothy have unless it be canon itself? So should Timothy be canonized because it references Luke? But the gnostic gospels also reference the canonical gospels as scripture, so should they be canonized too? You can't afirm anything about Luke or Timothy unless a third thing defines both as canonical based, among other things, on tradition.
Paul wrote 1 Timothy, the fact you don't know that shows me you haven't read it
Read your Bible, then come to your conclusions
>proceedeth from the Father
>from the Father
>send
Sending the holy spirit in a temporal sense is not the same as eternal procession.
>The KJV is the infallible word of God
lmao
not venerating mary is crypto-nestorianism
Again logic is not your strong point. Anything written by Paul is only considered canonical because so defined. Or you may say that Paul's letters are canonical because they were accepted by the early Christian community. But that's tradition. Then again you may claim that they are canonical because Paul was inspired by God, and this is true, but we only know that because of tradition, unless you fall in the circular argument of scripture defining scripture.
>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
John 10:27
Christ's sheep will know canon
Im not that other user who responded to you. So you sought out the church, how common is that experiance with your converts?
Does it cause you any problems or issues going there as a non believer?
>how common is that experiance with your converts?
I'm fairly new to Orthodoxy, and I attend a Greek parish (as I live in a small city), so I don't know many other converts.
As in you havent talked to them or you just dont know if there are any others?
God hates fags. Deal with it.
how welcoming are they of other ethnicities?
Greeks hate niggers and Jews almost as much as they hate Turks, and they really only tolerate other ethniticies because the law forces them and muh tax exemption, but they don't really want you there. Why would you want to disrupt a peaceful and homogeneous community with your unwanted presence?
No they wouldn't.
They would ask why he's complicit in destroying Europe though.
They're fine.
That wasn't me.
Are there any Orthodox churches that blatantly contradict the explicit words of the bible on homosexuality?
No, no there are not.
Christianity is not for lovers of sexual deviancy.
The one benefit of Globalism would be the possibility of segregated zones of conservatism and liberalism.
Honestly, wouldn't it be a lot better if all the Degenerates and all the People who don't like them got to be separated instead of trying to get people who hate one another to abide each other?
Degeneracy is actually decreasing
bloomberg.com
They are the most chaste generation in over half a century
no it's actually getting worse
they're supplanting physical intimate encounters with increasingly hardcore pornography
>they're supplanting physical intimate encounters with increasingly hardcore pornography
Actually if you look at the articles its more about general alienation and includes women as well as men. Veeky Forums is not a microcosm of society. Theres no link with " increasingly hardcore pornography"
>Bart I and the Russians hate gays but what about the other Orthodox and Eastern churches?
All Eastern Orthodox have the same views, i don't know how they feel about gays, ive never bothered to find out, but if one of them hates gays they all do. Oriental Orthodox churches of armenia and the middle east are extremely similar to EE in tradition and belief, so they'd probably share the same views.
I doubt they hate gays though, you'd probably get hate from secular orthodox people than priests.
>Orthodox
>ChurchES
There's a single Orthodox Church. The only separation is administrative, not doctrinary.
>Archbishop Lazar is known for his prolific (and, at times, controversial) theological writings, particularly regarding his criticism of the Orthodox teaching of the Aerial Toll-Houses, and his positions on homosexuality and transgenderism. The Synod of Bishops of the OCA has forbidden him to speak on the subject of homosexuality in any way contrary to official position of the Church.
No, those guys get shut down.
Yeah, but autocephalous churches are called Churches as well.
Besides, if you wanna nitpick, any true local church where the Eucharist is celebrated is the Church in it's entirety and stuff.
The Westerners seem not to know that though, and are under the impression that they are different Churches altogether.
It's not bizarre at all if understand Russians. It's what I'm telling commie retards on this board for months, when Russians say they want the USSR back, they don't want fucking communism, they want their empire.
>KJV
Shouldn't you be listening to a sermon about how evil homophobia is?
>Christian rap, speaking in tongues and dancing wih snakes
That one got me.
Strawman.
And reality
All the Orthodox priests I know go everywhere dressed like priests. They have strict limitations on their behaviour to ensure their mind isn't clouded by earthly desires.
On the other hand, a person has to make almost no sacrifices to be a preacher in Baptist Christianity and most other Protestant denominations. It's possible to be a preacher as a part-time job. There is little dedication necessary, which is why ends up happening.
The extremely vulgarized state of Protestantism in America and a severe lack of subtlety is the reason for atheism's rise in that country.
>Baptist preacher.
Here in the Philippines, they tend to be the ones arrested for pedophilia. Since >White Americans.
I think pedophile clergy is a Western thing. Here the scandals are mostly priests using church money to buy expensive shit/maintain mistresses. Never child-fucking.
Shouldn't you be listening to a sermon about how to be a good goy and how Israel is your greatest ally?
Shouldn't you be bowing down to a Semiramis statue?
>implying I'm not Lutheran
O-Oh
Yea sure buddy
That's a neat comic, I'm gonna steal it and I'm gonna fix it.
>removing the Papist
Only the Orthodox Churches have kept the whole canon of the Bible. Every other denomination has left out some content.
thats because Jamal and Chad get's all the pussy
Being an Orthodox priest is a very cashmoney gig, you rake it in at weddings, funerals and baptisms, are exempt from taxation and get to drive cool cars
You're even allowed to marry if you aren't an ordained priest
>implying Russia - the "stronghold" of Orthodox Christianity - is actually devout or observant
The majority of people are atheists/irreligious, and church attendance is extremely low. It was that way even before the Bolsheviks, as it is recorded by foreign diplomats that church attendance dropped dramatically once the Tsarist regime was replaced by the provisional government and peasants/army members were no longer forced to attend services.
Anyone ever read The Ladder of Divine Ascent? Thats a great text.
Of course the Church can go astray after hundreds of years, but that text is no nonsense and on point. Theres not really much room for distortion and misinterpretation, and it puts all modern issues into perspective.
Basically, if you're not climbing the ladder with full sincerity, you're not properly prioritized and so your views are colored by sin as a result.
Russia's a special case. See
Protestants are hardly christian, the current pope is a twat, people keep going on how the Orthodox churches are corrupt and controlled by ex KGB agents.