Was he really a bad person?

Because he killed a shit ton of people: directly. By his order.

The people he "saved" is subjective. You could just as well say that he killed even more people because he COULD have been a better ruler and saved more.

>worst war crimes of WW2

He was a piece of shit, plain and simple. He merely flushed those he didn't like, rather than those that were the actual detriments to the USSR's success

When Hitler declared war Stalin was so upset that he hid in his room for 3 days. He just wanted to make friends.

In the war crime department, probably.
In the "systemized mass killing" department, maybe. You have to try to combine the gulag fatalities with an estimate of the intentional deaths caused by the Holodomor, intentional mistreatment of POWs (unless that counts as a war crime as well) and the great purge and put it against the holocaust (and I mean the whole thing i.e. Romani, Jews, gays, political opponents, Poles and POWs)
I'd have to look up the estimates on that.

>Rape of Germany
>Mass graves
>Gulags
>Treatment of POWs and civilians
>General soldier behaviour
The Germans killed a lotta dudes, but they weren't as inhumane as the Soviets.

Well look at it this way. He did industrialize his nation in a rapid period of time and only a tyrant like him would have thrown men into the eastern front meat grinder like he did. But the way he got rid of people was despicable and harsh. He was a bad person, but the necessary counterweight to Hitler.

Calm down, Pawel

>""bad person""

Are you eleven?

Holocaust is estimated at 15 million according to whatever it is they use to figure that shit out (seems pretty out of the ass f a m, but it's not like we have something better). Stalin killed way more in Gulags and other camps, not to mention executions. And he definitely wins if we're talking own people here.

I'm Ukrainian buddy

not just those he didn't like, ALL OF THEM.

guy could see you walk past his office because you needed the closest bathroom possible and write you down to get dissapeared.

schizophrenic old bastard finger fucking the world's biggest gun.

What? Operation Barbarossa tops any of that

Calm down, Omurtag.

But the German killcount was massively higher. It's not even comparable.

I'm sorry the Russians weren't polite about resisting genocide?

I think its important to note when we get into these kill count arguments that the methods of mass murder used by the fascists were far more scientific and thorough than those used by the communists. Had the fascists been around longer I think they easily would have surpassed the communists.

Even worse haha

Remember how you guys slaughtered Poles en masse without the Nazis even asking?

Not to mention Generalplan Ost.

yes, to that end there was a great interest in developing anti-fertility treatments that could be given to slavs en masse. It was the main thrust of Eduard Wirth's medical experiments at Auschwitz.

He was a monster who also happened to be an extremely capable statesman and leader.
Beware, I'm not saying he was infallible or glorifying him, he was a monster whose policies killed millions but which also helped USSR win WW2.
Stalin brought undeniable results to the USSR (higher literacy, industrialisation, victory in WW2 and overall USSR superpower status) at an enormous cost.

First I believe he good person, but then i realize he bad person too late

sounds about right

Stop Lenin me down all the time.

>>Was he really a bad person?
Yes

>>How does his "kill count" compare to the millions of lives he saved,
Which lives were those? WW2 would have been won regardless, more of the casualties would have been american instead and the war would have taken a year or two longer.

>>and millions of other lives he improved?
Russia was starting to industrialize before he showed up.

ivan stop they don't pay you enough for this

If I don't Stalin sends me and family to Gulag

What the fuck!? I hate Stalin no- *USER WAS UNABLE TO FINISH POST DUE TO "EXILE" FOR BEING ENEMY OF PEOPLE*

I claim this thread to become /Russia/ for glorious father Stalin!

Stalin is hated by both /pol/ and Veeky Forums for some reason. The end result justified the means. He turned the USSR into a superpower.

But at what cost? He gained an insane amount of power by unending fuckery of Russia/ns and turned the Revolution into Revovling Door.

Russia was shit compared to the rest of europe, people starved ffs. Under stalins time ussr went from shittiest of hell to shit hell

Just because a pile of shit has like one or two clean jelly beans sticking out doesn't mean you should eat them.

Russian commies are generally anti-Putin

>people tare trying to justify the actions of this psychopath

/pol/ hates him because they're uniformly cuckolds who prostrate themselves before the feet of capital

There's no evidence the 1930s famine in Ukraine was intentional. It's a lie mainly promoted by Ukrainian nationalists who idolize Nazi collaborators. The historians who originally pushed that myth have had to go back and revise their conclusions.

You are a fuck

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Calculating_the_number_of_victims

>deaths of 6 to 8 million people in the 1932–1933 famine

>historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression

>or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization

You are splitting hairs what words to use about Stalin starving 6-8 million people to death.

Intention or unintentional, he did it, the blood is on his hands. He's a fuck and so are you, you apologist for mass murder.

I assume you also recognize Churchill as a mass murderer?

>tankies

Nobody has a bigger hard-on for nazis than Ukrainians. It's pretty creepy considering the Nazis regarded them as subhumans in the same mould as the Russians and poles. They were just dumb, temporarily useful subhumans

Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the three leaders of world history that it's never ever going to possible to have a rational, objective conversation about aren't they?

I guess Mohammed would qualify also these days

>Fascists
Only the Nazis undertook mass killings and human experimentation. Italian Fascists were actually fairly benign.

Not even the user you're replying to but whataboutery triggers me. Stop arguing like a retard

Yes.

Ukrainians are like a girl who leaves a mean father for a drug dealer boyfriend

The Holodomor never happened but I wish it did.

This

Kek

He was a greedy Gregorian who hated Russians. Stalin didn't care what happened as long as he was in power.

He killed for no ideology other than that he should have all power. He industrialized, communalized and mechanized, true, but it's not like he alone could have done that, and his purges only hampered those efforts.

>He killed 6 million Ukrainians
And Simo Häyhä killed 60,000 Russians with a minigun, your point?

One he was defending his country and two those weren't innocent civilians of your own nation that you are supposed to protect...

Due to his policies, I would say he firmly killed more Russians than the Whermacht did directly

hella f*ckin epic /b/ro

The point is that Simo's kills and the Holodomor being intentional are both bullshit propaganda.

>>>/leftypol/

As a misanthrope and antinatalist, the higher the kill count, the better. The human problem must be exterminated.

>Believes Churchill and Stalin are comparable when it comes to this

edgy

i agree though

becoming a superpower = two clean jelly beans

Fuck off, this is our board

Kill yourself commie, it's the Christian board

I'd say Veeky Forums is equal parts Marxist and Catholic, which some overlap between those two groups

Nice false flag

Some of the morons in here denying the atrocious warcrimes of the soviet union and other things such as the holodomor, I hope you know that you are exactly as "good" as /pol/ shitposters denying the holocaust?

But there's proof of the Holocaust

>Holocaust numbers are way inflated!
>But the commies definitely killed the 700 trillion, that number totally wouldn't be inflated at all

You're right about Catholic and Marxist overlap, but dead wrong about any majority
Veeky Forums is Christian Monarchist

Their lives would be even better had they not stayed in a communist shithole.

Just compare Finland with the rest of the Russian Empire, that fell to communism. Finland, being the only part of the Empire where anti-communism won, became the best country in the world.

Communists are the ones running society, they wouldn't inflate their own kills
If anything it's probably deflated

Fucking lefties, they are so stupid

Are they suppose to be finns? the majority of finn Christians are Lutheran not Orthodox

Yeah, and Commies argue the other way around. What else is new?

>Nazis did not conquer much of Europe and ran shit for several years
>Nazis did not burn massive amounts of records and evidence of crimes to cover their own ass when it became apparent they would lose

Nice revisionism.

That's unfortunately not true. Communism hasn't been mainstream outside Cuba since the 90s.

I've seen very little monarchism here, compared to socialism

What the fuck did Stalin save?

Literally any other leader from the committee could've done what he did but with less purges and famines.

Vocal minority silent majority

>industrialized Russia in the space of like 15 years.

>still makes Nazis cry to this day

So, nothing?

>Communists are running society

So, no, they're not the majority.

>not liking a mass murderer means your a nahtzee

I think it's just you, haha

Easy for fucking you to say

Communists don't run out society, user