How could Germany have won the war?

I had another idea, but it's retarded (but OP asked how Germany could of won the war). What would of happened if Japan went northwards in it's military aggression, then southward. Both Germany and Japan, working together mind you, may of been able to tear Russia apart. Key word is may.

yeah it's a retarded idea alright

Duh, but given the scenario OP has presented us, i see no other way.
They would have been wise to be purely defensive against France. I understand the whole blitzkrieg and taking the offensive to be defensive, but it made them look the aggressors so much that even today most people don't realise France and Britain declared war on Germany.

Ahahahaha, no.

The Soviets, even in the worst days of 41-42, kept about 1.2 million men in the far east. To free up enough of a force that you MIGHT be able to make a dent in that, you'd pretty much need to abandon all of China, which

A) is never going to happen.

B) Is going to cost Japan so much in the way of occupied primary resources that it'll cripple them.

And even, by some miracle, you manage to beat that Soviet border force, they can retreat to say, Irkutsk, tear up the thousand or so kilometers of the ONE railway that connects you and they, and let you freeze trying to get after them. The only thing of meaningful value you'd seize would be Vladivostok, and that's important not so much for itself, but for the lend-lease corridor, of which there are far simpler ways of closing; and even if you do, it probably just means more of lend-lease goes through Persia instead.

Japan was strictly little-league stuff. In a lot of combat metrics, they were worse than Italy-tier.

>They would have been wise to be purely defensive against France.

If you're purely defensive against France, you lose, full stop. Germany quite simply needed resources from French occupation to keep going, most especially food, but also some of that coal and iron in Alsace-Lorraine.

A WW2 where you don't knock France out quickly requires a huge presence on the Rhine to stop French counterattacks, as well as even less to work with when you come knocking at the Soviets doors.

Turn nazi Germany into commie Germany. Never support italian wars. NEVER became allied with japan.

German industrial tech and military + russian zerg army and resources + Italian pasta = instawin.

The only real possibility would be to somehow make peace with the British and keep the US from joining the war, they could have beaten the Soviets then. Problem is that those first two things are impossible.

I did say it was a retarded idea, but at least you didn't call me an autistic (or was it down syndrome) tiger.

Why couldnt they just LEAVE GERMANY ALONE

As I stated, it was a retarded idea that came from thinking about how Germany may of won World War 2. Personally, I think mister/miss has the right idea of how Germany could of "won".

Was hitler still their leader in all these scenarios?

if so, there is no way they could have won

Gee, I don't know user. Was it the numerous broken treaties? The unbounded expansionism? Poland being the third time Hitler had promised "no really, this is my last territorial demand"? The rapid re-armament and worries over the Great War round two that would start sooner or later under his direction? Hitler openly campaigning on a platform of revanchism launched against France, specifically?

This is true plus if they never halted the attack on dunkirk France they could of wiped out entire army over 350,000 soldiers with there pants down.

1.
>spain joins axis
>spain and italy magically occupies the entirety of the french military force making them a non-issue for germany
>turks join axis
>turks japs and germans attack soviet
>germany still has to deal with britain on their own
>norway joins axis
>there would never be a scenario where america doesn't join the allies, making for a lost war anyway
2.
>brits bomb soviet
>soviet join axis
>things play out as normal except soviet is axis
3.
>germany doesn't trigger britain declaring war on them
>they forge and reforge alliances so that the end result wont be as abysmal as it was in reality

impressive

There's no way Germany would've been able to defeat Russia in a war of extermination while fighting on two fronts. It was a fool's errand.

They did have a non aggression pact with Russia and if they focused on fighting the allies, they may have been able to turn their full attention to Russia after the war concluded...

Except they have no means of striking decisively at Britain or The U.S., while the reverse isn't true. The war against Germany lasts as long as the western allies feel like going. It'll probably end in atomic fire over Berlin.

>germany doesn't trigger britain declaring war on them
>>they forge and reforge alliances so that the end result wont be as abysmal as it was in reality

Care to explain how the Germans would be able to fight a war against Russia without agitating the French?

Poland joins Axis, Hitler invades France in 1939.

Both go into Russia.

Oh agree, but I do believe that scenario is as realistic as it gets.

If Germany wasn't fighting to kill millions of people they would've had a much better shot against russia. Hell, there's tons of people who didn't even want to be russian, they could've maybe absorbed some of their resources.

Expect that the nazis knew this and worked hard to discover the ultimate weapon to defeat all of their enemies. A.k.a the V2 rockets etc. But they got involved too much in their wars before managing to create something powerfull enough.

Could you imagine what would've happened if they created the first nuclear bomb? Yeesh.

There'd be a greater chance that the German race would be exterminated after they lost.

Even if they did, they don't have the industrial capacity to turn them out quickly and in mass (or easy access to uranium), nor do they have a reliable delivery method. The Germans didn't get a reliable 4 engined bomber until late 43, and by that point, they were decidedly on the back foot in the air war, making it unlikely that their nuclear strike would actually get to target.

I suppose you could try to load something like that onto a railroad gun and lob it, but that sharply limits your range.

Turks and the spaniars joining the war is a good idea, i would say. At least the turks, mobilized with some german weaponary could take out the oil reserves in Caucasian mountains making it a less problem for the german and they could have concentraded their armies more effectivley. You know turks fight like animals when they are told to defend their lands even if it means to attack the russkies.

>I suppose you could try to load something like that onto a railroad gun and lob it, but that sharply limits your range.

Well, pic related, that is what they were thinking about.

Germany discovers the nuke technology before the US, either through scientific research or through efficient spying. Would it work?

seeYou still need industrial tooling to actually build them (reactors are not cheap) access to uranium to build your bombs and reactors (and the biggest known source at the time is in Canada, which isn't going to give you any) as well as a delivery system (Germany focused on single and dual enginged little bombers performing CAS. They can't carry a nuclear warhead)

Most likely outcome is that they can assemble a dirty bomb or two and give a lot of people cancer. Even if they do somehow get a real nuclear weapon, and they do manage to dodge all the spitfires and deliver it on London or something, you're not likely to knock out an allied major power otherwise doing fine without multiple bombings, which you are unlikely to be able to deliver.

the literal only way Germany has a shot is if the US stays out of the war entirely. No lend lease, no soldiers, and certainly no A Bomb. As so as the US joins the war defeat is an inevitability.

By getting nukes faster than the US

Gemany invades romania.
From romania it invades poland.
War is declared by brittain and france.
Nazis steamroll france.
Agree to the molotov pact with russia.
Invade scandanava.
While fortifying southern europe, invade scottland through norway.
set up bases and bombing raids from scottland to 24/7 destroy england.
Do not declare war on america when the japanese attack, if they have not already joined.
If they have joined, hold them off.
now that the close enemies are gone, expand into africa and plunder it for resources.
All this while, hunting down defector scientists and detaining them or killing them.
Invade latin america and canada.
US will definately declare war now.
Too late for the US now.
Only Nazi germany, the USSR, and maybe the japanese.
Cold war between these countries ensues.

>While fortifying southern europe, invade scottland through norway.
I don't know much about British in the early days, but would their navy really sit by and let Germany walk on past them?
>Invade latin america and canada.
What purpose does this serve?

>FINISH BEFORE LEND-LEASE BEGAN

To crush lend-lease, or to finish the attack before it, meant ultimate victory in the world.

because lend-lease was not stopped by the Germans, the world lives in a capitalist nightmare, in eminent collapse world wide.

Lend- lease was absolutely everything. it created the eastern front

so you want to knock out the soviets in like two months? because LnL to ussr began about two months after the invasion

good luck with that lel

>nukes?
>naw, fuck that, let's research anti-gravity and magic instead.

>invade scotland through norway.

user that's retarded

Turkey doesn't have a great military history when it comes to fighting the Russians

Poland had good relations with Romania at the time, I doubt they would have accepted such a stupid proposal.

It was more like 5. Lend-Lease started with the U.S. entry into the war, although there was some British foreign aid under their own program which got their earlier.

Here is my own retarded opinion

>Don't take the rest of Czechoslocakia like Hitler agreed with Chamberlain
>Find a way to make a deal with Poland
>Even if they won't make a deal still don't invade
>modernize forces further while waiting for war with USSR
>Maybe run a double cross like signing molotov ribbentrop and making Stalin think you invaded Poland so when he does the Poles invite the Germans to help once they start to lose
>Deal a decisive defeat to the Red army in eastern Europe along side Romania Hungary Poland etc
>set up puppet governments in Belarus Baltic states Ukraine selling them German weapons
>USSR too impotent to take the lost territory back
>Hitler now the hero of the Western world

hmm germany was goimg cool till barbosan and stalingrad , i think they shouldnt atack stalingrad qnd trew all their power to caucasus cause there was alot of fuel 1/3 of the whole USSR with that trick caucasus countrys gonna follwo germany cause of hating USSR and after that move Turkey could envolve in the war so now turkey could help them ,maybe they could send turks to russias north through the caucasus , they should follow 1/3 of their armies and with 2/3 should atacked england idk

The only fucking Germany could have had even a slight chance to win that war was with Japan attacking the USSR. And more importantly not attacking the US.

Maybe Roosevelt wanted to enter the war in Europe, but the American people certanly didn't wanted, and that fuckup at Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the war!

This is predicated on the idea that the USSR will start aggressively expanding into Europe. Historically, they didn't until the MR pact guaranteed their closest major neighbor wouldn't have a problem with it and most of the other big powers of Europe were in other wars.

It's extremely unlikely Stalin will just randomly start attacking people, and it would break with Soviet policy for the past 20 years or so.

>The only fucking Germany could have had even a slight chance to win that war was with Japan attacking the USSR. And more importantly not attacking the US.
>Maybe Roosevelt wanted to enter the war in Europe, but the American people certanly didn't wanted, and that fuckup at Pearl Harbor brought the Americans into the war!

Dude... how could japan flew through china and whole russia ? fiest of all , china won let them flew over cause of hatin , on the second hand russia is so large , yhey won have enogh fuel till moscow , and bombing taiga and cyneria wont gave them any demn results

At least they could have kept some of the soviet troops there expecting a soviet attack.

Anyway, it would still be hard, Russia is simply too big!

Japanese attack instead of soviet one correction...

How so? We invaded normandy, and it was much more heavily fortified.

hmm maybe they could stop by the south west of volga river and remobilize their power

the thing was that attacking the USSR was Japan's original goal, and it didn't turn out well.

Japan's army and navy were jockeying over what direction the military should take to seize resources after the Western embargo. the Army devised the doctrine of Hokushin-ron, where the Army would occupy pieces of the Soviet Far East to get oil and steel to continue the war against China.

They started this attack in Mongolia and were beaten back by the Red Army at the battle of Khalikin Gol in 1939. This wasn't some border skirmish, it was a battle involving a few hundred thousand men, where Japan assessed that they were in no position to attack the Red Army with the bulk of their military tying down China.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

With the failure to seize Soviet territory, the Navy came up with Nanshin Ron, where the Japanese Navy would seize the European colonies in the Pacific for oil, rubber, and iron, which kicked off the Pacific War, where Japan gambled on removing the American Navy from play and failed.

>
>How so? We invaded normandy, and it was much more heavily fortified.

dud USA knew that its gonna be too fortified and blloody but fuckin Yankis wanted to show their power by beating losing side in both WWI and WWII

We also had overwhelming Naval and Air superiority. Including the means to unload large amounts of men and equipment quickly onto shore. The Germans lacked all of these things. If Sea Lion would not have worked then what makes you think a longer trip from Norway would have?

I see your point. But the germans had an amazing air force. They did have the capability to fly thousands of troops into enemy teritory and have them parachute in. They could also parachute in supplys and small vehicles. Once these troops secured an area, they could have ships bring in the panzers abd artilery.

Also, the germans did fail at doing things in practice, so it probably would have failed.

Oh great, another "fuck yea murica" guy.

>Invade Latin America and Canada
Why?
Germany knew they had no chance in hell against the British Navy. Hell, for operation sea lion they planned to use modified tanks to "drive across the ocean floor" and floats to ship men and supplies to England. Invading the second largest country in the world across the Atlantic that was second to the usa to supplying equipment under lend lease. Hitler was stupid but not that stupid

Dude did you see what happened to the Paratroopers in Crete.

Aerial invasion of Britain early on, dont invade Russia, let them come to you and annihilate their green troops with defensive positions. Without Britain the US have nowhere to launch D-Day from, and all you have to do is defend against Russia and maybe help out the Italians when the allies try to come through there. The nazi nuclear program would be up and running if they spent all their resources on finishing it, and then everyone would be fucked.

Britain was actually incredibly close to total collapse. and invasion would have broken them. Its just that Hitler didn't want to go over the channel.

yeah they took over crete and forced the allies to evacuate all their troops.

>how could Germany win the war?
>became communist
>with the help from USSR, lead the World Revolution
>kill all capitalist scumbags

>amazing air force
>lost the battle of britain

>manpower dispersed across the Europe
>USSR invade and liberate all angry Romanians, Poles and other nations

And never used paratroopers on such a large scale due to the fucking abysmal losses.
>Ha, Paratroopers sure are an effective means of gaining ground aren't they Hans!
>...Hans?
>..........Edgar? Anyone?

>making Stalin think you invaded Poland so when he does the Poles invite the Germans to help once they start to lose
Nigga, that's exactly what stalin did to hitler: sigh M-R pact, Hitler invade poland, ussr joins only 2 weeks after when poland army is already fallen and government ran to romania

Unite Europe against communism and invade Russia with a combined European/American force.

Nigga, most of intelligentsia was communist, doing this means suicide to your science

pfft, science is a degenerate ploy to bring in multiculti you cuck

It's just not possible. As soon as you fight on two fronts, you put enormous pressure on both military and infrastructure. Also, keep in mind that Germany went low on ressources anyway (you can tell by the alloys they used in their late-war tanks) and that Russia had ridiculous manpower. Maybe, if Hitler and Speer wouldn't have been such enormously hubris-drivin hyperspergs with their Germania and Maus/V-Waffe/Gustav/..., they would've made it one or two years longer. However, attacking Soviet Russia got Germany pretty much BTFO no matter what.

did they really need to invade soviet union? wouldnt fighting that war on their own soil be more preferable

No because "muh Lebensraum".

Not. At least not that war, with the same allies and enemies.

How would one win a war on their own soil? Eventually they would need to counter attack and invade anyway.

No.

Hitler's affinity for pissing off the rest of the planet and brazen disregard for international law dashed any hope for a negotiated peace if there was any to begin with. The Allied Powers would have never considered negotiating with Germany as long as Hitler and the NSDAP held power.

Germany also had a severe leadership problem in the civilian department where even before the war, corruption and misuse of vital resources was endemic.

Compare that to the Allies, who built one of the most intricate logistics networks in history.

Germany was fighting a lost cause from the start, they just were too blinded by their initial success to realize it.

Meant to clarify here, the Allies would have never considered negotiating a permanent peace with Nazi Germany. The best Hitler would've gotten might have been a temporary ceasing of hostilities with the British in '40, which of course would be reneged upon as soon as the US joined the war.

Hitler just had all of his priorities wrong, Britain was his greatest threat because of Churchill yet he always held hope of negotiating peace and never fully commited to an attack on Britain.

He should have gone kamikaze against the Brits like he did vs Stalin, they had a ton more men so im sure they would have won in the end ,but it would have totally crippled them if the soviets decided to invade, which i guess is why they didn't.

By not fully militarizing it's industry and allying itself with the Soviet Union while splitting Poland in two, or promising liberty to all non-Russian elements in the Soviet Union.

The Lend-lease was accounted for only 7-12% of all the resources which the Soviets have used in World War II, it would've been accounted for more if half of the sent trucks and rifles were actually designed to survive the harsh Russian climate.

it's because the jews infiltrated the army and were cowards

no jews infiltration = nazi win easy

>Its just that Hitler didn't want to go over the channel.
You forgot something called Royal Navy and RAF

>and invasion would have broken them. Its just that Hitler didn't want to go over the channel
Yeah and how exactly was Germany going to invade Britain? They didn't have air superiority which means no paratroopers. They didn't have naval superiority which means no marine invasions. You are a fucking idiot.

Don't forget that the initial plans made for Sealion involved using river barges to transport the bulk of the troops across the channel. A lot of them would have sunk even if the British didn't lift a finger to try to stop them.

>using only full materiel as your benchmark instead of including raw materials and food as well
58% of Soviet fuel came from the United States. 53% of Soviet ammo was made with American supplies or came from the U.S. directly. 4 million tons of Soviet food came from the United States. There's no reason to be a bullshitting vatnik. The Soviet Union survived because of Lend-lease which is something even the Soviets admitted to.

They didn't have sea or air supremecy which makes an attempt impossible.

You need both as unsupported paras get there shit pushed in really fast vs conventional armies.

Also you would need a force on the millions. Which nobody had ever transported by air.

They can't. Germany got ridiculously lucky as it was, so many things that could have (and arguably should have) gone wrong from 1939 to 1941 simply didn't.

>Its just that Hitler didn't want to go over the channel.

More like Hitler couldn't go over the channel. Operation Sea Lion called for the use of river barges, for christ's sake. Half of the "invasion force" would have drowned on the way there, and the other half would have been blown to bits by the RAF and the Royal Navy.

>the only way to deliver a bomb is by aircraft

None of the V rockets had a payload sufficient to carry a nuclear warhead.

Just scale them op bro. That way they even go to the moon and back

>Just scale it up, nothing could possibly go wrong!

So now, in addition to somehow ahistorically working much faster on the nuclear project, AND getting the industrial and material requirements to get a bomb together, you now want to also create development on a completely different superweapon, to again be much more effective than it was in real life, in the hope that maybe, just maybe, you could deliver a nuke to your enemies about half the time, because real life v rockets were horribly innacurate.

When are all these super-projects going to be done? And how are you going to stop the Americans from rolling out their own nukes come 1945, and way faster than you can build them?

The V-2s were already considered a massive waste of resources. There's no way they were going to get rocketry developed in time.

senpaitachi it's a what if scenario where the Germs had nukes first. You questioned the delivery method and i gave a solution that might have worked. If only they would have combined the V2's with their subs, it could have been fun.