Ever since the Treaty of Verdun...

You don't belong to Veeky Forums; we're all frogboo here.

it was six years ago but for some reason their overall literacy and education dropped in the last six years?

How does that explain the thirty years war where the German empire fought for uniting Europe under a strong emperor while the Catholic French supported invading Ottomans and Swedes as well as rebelling German Nobles?

Charlemagne was cool. The enlightenment was cool. Everything in between has always been sorta meh for me. Maybe I don't know enough. Maybe it just seems like too much the "archetypal" feudal state.

Sorry for intruding on your circle jerk. I'll find the door.

French know that letting german in charge was bad for Europe, the 20 century prove them right.

Well, it was the archetypal feudal state, them become the archetypal absolutist state, then the archetypal Nation-state, Europe is big on copying on the French.

it goes even further than that
just like this one said - germans are inherently evil but luckly for the rest of europe they're not very intelligent and are incapable of any kind of thought that isn't pragmatic and present-focus, which causes their usual bloodthirsthy rapacious campaigns on europe for world domination to be doomed to fail every single time since war is more than killing and violent urges.

>Nation-state
France was hardly the first nation-state, let alone the first nation-state in Europe.

So they created a succession of terrible political systems with increasing potential to wage war.

Germany only gave us Beethoven, Mozart, Nietzsche, Bohrs, Heisenberg............

France creates
England corrupts
Germany destroys

Charlemagne wasn't French and the best enlightenment thinkers were British.

Not only was it the first nation state, it also turned the concept of nation state into a universal ideal and then exported it all over the world.

lmao brit delusion

France is a state that create it own nation, Charlemange as a king of France is as Clovis, part of France history and legacy.

Cos that's worked out super well

>what is the Dutch Republic
France was far from the first nation-state.

Well it's the basis of how the entire world is organised today.

The French nation was born in the early 13th century, the Netherlands didn't even exist yet.

The French state begin in 600 with Clovis, then this state create his own nation.
French have a long tradition of cultural genocide.

I think you mean 500 (or 486 to be exact), but how does that contradict what I said?

Not even close. The closest you hear about France being a nation would be from Joan of Arc and even then you wouldn't hear about it again until the revolution. Being a continuous state does not make you a nation-state. There's a huge distinction. France's history as a nation-state begins in 1789.

>Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
rmyt.

Also even then, the French wouldn't be a unified national entity until most of the way through the 19th century as they had to deal with Occitans, Alsatians, Italians, Bretons etc.

No, the first clear expression of French nationhood is considered to be the battle of Bouvines. By the time of Joan of Arc it's clear that the French nation already exists. And that's still long before the Dutch Republic.

>you wouldn't hear about it
Nobody cares about what it said in your elementary school textbook.

>France's history as a nation-state begins in 1789.
Full retard. If France wasn't a nation before 1789, what the fuck do you think the Revolution was all about?

>No, the first clear expression of French nationhood is considered to be the battle of Bouvines. By the time of Joan of Arc it's clear that the French nation already exists. And that's still long before the Dutch Republic.
Nobody cares about what it said in your elementary school textbook.
What's funny is that everything you've said is bullshit according to academia. The Dutch Republic and the Kingdom of Portugal are the oldest nation-states bar none. The only people who think France is the oldest nation-state are the French and they're hilariously wrong, just as you are.

>what the fuck do you think the Revolution was all about?
Taxes, representation, and popular sentiment against the nobility, mostly. None of that has to do with nationalism. Nationalism came from the revolution, not the other way around.

>argument from authority
>can't even name the authority in question
top kek

>None of that has to do with nationalism.
The nation was invoked in every fucking speech from the very beginning of the Revolution you historically illiterate fuck. You think that concept just popped up out of nowhere in 1789 or something? And how the fuck do you think Joan of Arc did what she did without nationalism? Or maybe you think France was a nation briefly in the 1400s, then stopped being a nation, and then became a nation again in 1789? You're an idiot.

What came from the Revolution was turning French nationalism into a universal concept that could be applied to other peoples, and then was when France conquered them.

>The only people who think France is the oldest nation-state are the French
No, in fact you're the one spouting French Republican mythology, according to which France didn't exist before the Revolution.

What if the 20th centuary was the Germans trying to stop the French from bringing the Turks and their other Muslim allies onto Europe?

...

.

>Clovis ally with Gaullish bishops and perceive the tax and enforce the romano-frankish law
>Not a state with a Chief and a political structure(the church)

>this german autist

Why are you so mad?

These are all the same frogfag.

The Franks were a German tribe that subjugated the Gauls, ancestors of the French, who named themselves after the German tribe that brought them civilization.

>The Franks were a German tribe

They never called themselves like that, they called themselves Trojan which is proven by their haplogroup(R1B)

And Tacitus described the german as Red-haired, the modern germans are Brown haired and blond haired, therefore they aren't the true germans but viking rape babies.

The Franks didn't have a national identity in the modern sense like you claimed, but the concept of France didn't exist yet and fact is they were a Germanic tribe.

>herefore they aren't the true germans but viking rape babies

This is much more probable for French.

lolocaust right here

>Boobs
>Some blonde slut
>A brown eagle
>World War 1
>Four modern day generals
>Some blonde slut holding a German flag
>German ancestry in America
>Bundesliga
>A pope
Wow, such impressive German inventions!

Also
>Literally Auschwitz
There's desperate and there's tasteless. Germany is both.

>a bunch of sluts and shitty knockoffs of French things
Amazing pic.

But you're probably not even German or you wouldn't be confusing Deutsch and Germanisch like a drooling retard.

The biggest players in Europe have always been England and Germany (> 1815), then England an France (> 1066).

?

To the meaningless French idealisms: Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, we oppose the three German realities: Infantry, Cavalry, and Artillery

>Einstein
>Wernher Von Braun

>german
>not american

You can't disagree that the French made some of the best works of art and literature between the 19th and early 20th century.

...

You wanna talk about Fields Medals m8 ?

>Germany biggest after Nappy
Not Russia nor england nor France
>England biggest player in europe before Nappy
What is France, Spain, Autrian Empire, Ottoman. Uk was the at the Corner of Europe for much of it history and never the biggest player before Nappy That would be France or the Hasburg(er).

Yes

etymonline.com/index.php?term=infantry

etymonline.com/index.php?term=cavalry&allowed_in_frame=0

etymonline.com/index.php?term=artillery&allowed_in_frame=0

Good job opposing three French idealisms with three French realities, Bully. But then again, that Prussian probably also forgot the name of the highest military medal in the Prussian/German military: Pour le Mérite.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pour_le_Mérite

It's telling that there's no Krautenschüsserkampfen medal in the French military, on the other hand.

>WE

>marx
>contribution to the world

Yeah, many thanks

>what today is liberalism
Getting shot by muslims?

Not that user, but you need to learn the distinction between a state and a nation state.

>creative French Civilisation
Fuck off baguette brainlets.

>Ever since the founding of Rome, European history can be summarized as the everlasting struggle between the creative Italian Civilisation and the destructive French Culture
How accurate is this statement?

Not very accurate. Veeky Forums is not able to discuss germany on a serious level. Its the same as trying to seriously discuss israel on /pol/.

German culture actually was very creative look at .

And if you seriously think britain,france and spain weren´t as responsible for the countless european wars you are either deluded or viewing history through a massive ideological lense. WW2 and the holocaust were the biggest crime in human history but to condemn the rest of german history because of that is foolish.

t. a german

This. French have had an obsession with calling German culture barbarous ever since propaganda leading up to the first world war, but they forget that the term was primarily used by Romans towards Gauls, who were considered the worst of the barbarians.

Could it be that the French are suppressing a subconscious self hatred in their hate for barbarism?

Meme graph.

Explain why.

Seriously flat out denying that germany is a very strong contender in the sciences is delusional.

Also the supposed barbarous german culture makes it easy to meme away the inherent flaws of the great colonial powers france and gb that lead to their demise to second rate powers.

Rome never produced much civilisation, only spread Greek civilisation. And Gauls were certainly not considered "the worst of the barbarians", Caesar writes that the Germans kept invading Gaul because they were jealous of Gaul's superior land and culture, not to mention the Gauls were the greatest warriors of the ancient world.

Are you serious? It's a graph of Nobel prizes. Obama has one.

I'd say ever since the death of Charles the Bold, Burgundy was blocking the two and with it gone and divied up between the two it fucked a lot of stuff up

>le Germany didn't start WW1 maymay

...

Nobel prices in chemistry, physics and physiology and medicine are a not as wortheless as literature and peace ones. Also if you whine about le ebin french culture you can´t disregard nobel prizes as worthless.

>complex political situation in europe
>characterized by massive competition and rivalry between the great powers
>a single country alone is to blame

How is a 1950s understanding of history working for you friend ?

That's WW2 you retard.

The Nobel comittee is a joke, if you want to talk about contributions look at what the actual contributions are.

And you're the one with the 1950s understanding, this "everyone was equally responsible" bullshit was made up to promote reconciliation, it's unrelated to historical reality.

>what is the blank check
>what is the rape of Belgium
>what is Germany outright declaring war on Russia
>what is unrestricted submarine warfare

WE STARTED A WAR WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD AND LOST WE'RE SUCH VICTIMS

No state has made as great a contribution to civilization as Rome, France was only able to become a powerful kingdom because of the roads the Romans paved. Roman culture is rooted in Greco-Roman culture, to say they just copied the Greeks when they were essentially the same people is a misleading oversimplification.

Would like a source for your claim, I just skimmed Caesar's Customs of the Gauls and Germans and he said the Gauls had previously invaded Germania offensively but were now inferior as warriors.

Granted, Caesar only knew about Germanics from the few he saw cross the Rhine when they stretched as far as the Baltics so his writings aren't those of an expert, they're just all we have.

>Gauls were the greatest warriors of the ancient world.

Kekismaximus. How did you reach this conclusion? Did you pit 100 Gauls with 100 of every ancient people?

Here's WW1

If anyone could be blamed solely for WW1, it's France. They had been frothing for the opportunity to throw Europe into bloody war once again for decades and took aggressive policies, even calling it "revengeism". Meanwhile Germany had kept Europe at peace for over 40 prosperous years.

>what is the blank check
Same thing Britain-France-Russia did.

>what is the rape of Belgium
Allied propaganda

>what is Germany outright declaring war on Russia
what is Russia outright declaring war on Austria beforehand

>what is unrestricted submarine warfare
what is sending a ship that turned out to be filled with military equipment into a war zone after receiving warning it will be fired upon

just come back from Berlin

It was nice

Rome made no or totally negligible contributions to art, science, technology, philosophy, and really anything except applied civil engineering and some minor literature. Every major Western country has surpassed Rome ten fold in every field of civilisation.

The source is the War of the Gauls obviously, towards the beginning when Caesar explains the background.

And the Gauls were considered the greatest warriors both collectively, as individual Gaulish tribes sacked Rome or defeated the combined Greeks and Macedonians for example, and individually, as Gauls made up all the greatest gladiators and were hired as elite mercenaries and bodyguards as far as Egypt.

>what the actual contributions are.

Germany had a lot of very important scientific, technological and cultural contributions so your argument holds no value beyond a somewhat resonable critique of the nobel system.

>And you're the one with the 1950s understanding, this "everyone was equally responsible" bullshit was made up to promote reconciliation, it's unrelated to historical reality.

>Modern academia has a very differentiated view of WW1.
>Lets ignore that and put forward winners history as absolute truth.

If i have a 1950s view of history then yours is literally france in 1919 tier.

>>what is the blank check

Backing up an essential ally.

>what is the rape of Belgium

Happened after the actual war started you mong. Ofc that was a crime but in not relevant to the question who is responsible for the start of the war.

>>what is Germany outright declaring war on Russia

On 29 July, Russia, in support of its Serb protégé, unilaterally declared – outside of the conciliation procedure provided by the Franco-Russian military agreements – partial mobilization against Austria-Hungary. German Chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg was then allowed until the 31st for an appropriate response. On the 30th, Russia ordered general mobilization against Germany. In response, the following day, Germany declared a "state of danger of war." This also led to the general mobilization in Austria-Hungary on 4 August. Kaiser Wilhelm II asked his cousin, Tsar Nicolas II, to suspend the Russian general mobilization. When he refused, Germany issued an ultimatum demanding the arrest of its mobilization and commitment not to support Serbia. Another was sent to France, asking her not to support Russia if it were to come to the defence of Serbia. On 1 August, after the Russian response, Germany mobilized and declared war on Russia.

Seems to me that russia has a fair part in the escalation here.

>>what is unrestricted submarine warfare

Again after the war started. 1/2

>Allied propaganda

What a surprise, it's another Imperial German war crime denial thread.

2/2

Also the only tool the germans had against the british blockade.

>WE STARTED A WAR WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD AND LOST WE'RE SUCH VICTIMS

If you really wanto start this meme shit:

WE WUZ GREAT COLONIAL POWERS AND ONLY THE EBIL GERMANIC BARBARIANS ENDED OUR WORLD DOMINATION. ALSO ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE THAT THE US HAD TO SAVE US TWICE: GAS THE KRAUTS !!!!!111!!

Germany declared war on Russia and France and invaded France with zero provocation, using as an excuse an event that had nothing to do with either Germany or France. The reason Britain then declared war on Germany is because the Germans had invaded neutral Belgium, massacring thousands of civilians in mass executions in the process.

Now fuck off and never post again.

> with zero provocation

Actually read a book or at the very least wikipedia.

Roman art

Gaulish ''''''''art''''''''

Again, you're the one with the 1919 attitude which was all "we should cut the poor Germans some slack". The actual revisionism about everyone being equally responsible then started in the 20s. This weakness from the French and British is exactly what allowed WW2 to happen.

For example the rape of Belgium. In the 20s politicians decided it was just a wartime myth and should be forgotten in favour of reconciliation. It's only recently that historians rediscovered how true it was.

Now go spout your Nazi revisionism somewhere else.

The "provocation" was that Germany demanded to annex several French cities, and France refused.

Stop being a retard and learn some basic history.

That statue has no artistic relevance, it's simply a portrait in classical Greek style.

>The source is the War of the Gauls obviously, towards the beginning when Caesar explains the background.
Give quote

>Gaulish tribes sacked Rome or defeated the combined Greeks and Macedonians for example
Early Roman victories consisted of outlasting all their opponents, after they formed organized armies the Gauls along with many others got steamrolled.

>Gauls made up all the greatest gladiators
How do you measure this?

>were hired as elite mercenaries and bodyguards as far as Egypt.
Barbarians were popular mercenaries because they were cheaper, and popular bodyguards because they didn't speak Latin and thus couldn't as easily be bribed to assassinate their client. Germanic warriors were used in the eastern empire as well.

Exactly the other way around.
What have the French done to civilization?
First they refuse to follow the rightful emperor of the HRE,
Then, they ally with goddamn *Muslims*, multiple times, to attack the Empire, the seat of true civilization.

After a few centuries of pitifully failing at doing anything significant, they start to rebel, come up with the ideology of the modern world, and destroy traditional civilization by spreading that stupidity all over Europe.

And then, when the Germans try to defend civilization against the grasp of democracy, they, again, fight on the wrong side instead of realising that they are just Germans and finally giving their country over to a proper ruler, like Franz Joseph.

After that, they do their very best to fuck over the Germans forever, and, after German strength rises again, and the Germans try to piece together what is left of traditional civilization to build something worthwhile again, the French do their very best to fuck it up again, but are just too hilariously incompetent to be effective.

Even now, the French let in hordes of terrorists.

The French are a danger to civilization, anathema to any idea of order or propriety, and generally at fault for the state of the modern world.

I'm going to say the French have never contributed to arts, science, technology, or philosophy because they got all their civilisation from Rome.

Since you're playing dumb, I''l let someone else explain Roman science and technology: quatr.us/romans/science/

Philosophy has its roots in Greece, so that's not an argument.

Just look for superior civilisation or jealous or something.

And? How does Roman discipline and logistics negate Gauls being great warriors? And despite all that the Gauls still defeated the Romans in battle at Gregovia.

By the fact that all the famous gladiator champions were Gauls.

The French created Gothic art and architecture, Lavoisier is the father of modern chemistry, Nicephore Niepce invented both photography and the internal combustion engine, and Descartes founded modern philosophy.

These are just one random example for each category and a tiny fraction of French achievements, but each alone is far beyond anything ever achieved by Rome.

>lets put a really harsh treaty on germany despite what the americans want
>oh btw with our high-handed winners attitude we paved the way for revanchism/ultra nationalism in japan, hungary/ the balcans in general and germany
>after WW2 americans treat the germans very decent despite the fact that they would have actually deserved harsh punishment
>germany becomes a valuable member of the western camp

Your retarded and unjustified le harsh treatment meme would have created a world where france wouldn´t have been able to stop the soviets from taking over europe. France was in no way able to be the hegemon of europe.

The German government issued demands to France that it remain neutral as they had to decide which deployment plan to implement, it being difficult if not impossible to change the deployment whilst it was underway. The modified German Schlieffen Plan, Aufmarsch II West, would deploy 80% of the army in the west, and Aufmarsch I Ost and Aufmarsch II Ost would deploy 60% in the west and 40% in the east as this was the maximum that the East Prussian railway infrastructure could carry. The French did not respond but sent a mixed message by ordering their troops to withdraw 10 km (6 mi) from the border to avoid any incidents, but at the same time ordered the mobilisation of her reserves. Germany responded by mobilising its own reserves and implementing Aufmarsch II West. Germany attacked Luxembourg on 2 August and on 3 August declared war on France.

Thanks for your meme history. A more accurate explanation would be : France created a situation of diplomatic encirclement and failed to send signals of deescalation at the right time. Germany thus completely overreacted and declared war.

Somewhat more complex than your memes. I am not trying to free germany of its responsibility, it was one of the driving forces of war in europe but to free all the others of responsibility is borderline retarded.

>Just look for superior civilisation or jealous or something.
Lol can't find it? I search both next to Germanic and Gaul and found nothing.

>How does Roman discipline and logistics negate Gauls being great warriors? And despite all that the Gauls still defeated the Romans in battle at Gregovia.
Because the Rome that the Gauls conquered was practically a single city with no standing army. Yes the Gauls won one insignificant battle where they had a bigger army, then the Romans beat a five times bigger Gaul army at the Battle of Alesia

>By the fact that all the famous gladiator champions were Gauls.
Once again, where do you keep getting these figures you pull out of your ass from?

Only one here is a Gaul:
listverse.com/2013/04/02/10-famous-gladiators-from-ancient-rome/

>muh creative French

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergonha

>France, that under Franco's reign was seen here [in Catalonia] as the safe haven of freedom, has the miserable honour of being the [only] State of Europe—and probably the world — that succeeded best in the diabolical task of destroying its own ethnic and linguistic patrimony and moreover, of destroying human family bonds: many parents and children, or grandparents and grandchildren, have different languages, and the latter feel ashamed of the first because they speak a despicable patois, and no element of the grandparents' culture has been transmitted to the younger generation, as if they were born out of a completely new world. This is the French State that has just entered the 21st century, a country where stone monuments and natural landscapes are preserved and respected, but where many centuries of popular creation expressed in different tongues are on the brink of extinction. The "gloire" and the "grandeur" built on a genocide. No liberty, no equality, no fraternity: just cultural extermination, this is the real motto of the French Republic.

Doing God's work, user.

>The French created Gothic art and architecture
Merely Romanesque art and architecture mixed with barbarism.

>Lavoisier is the father of modern chemistry
This title has also been given to Robert Boyle (before Lavoisier), Jöns Berzelius, and John Dalton

>Nicephore Niepce invented both photography and the internal combustion engine
He built off the discoveries of others, and others built off his own discoveries

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography#Development_of_chemical_photography
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_internal_combustion_engine#Prior_to_1860

>Descartes founded modern philosophy.
How the fuck do you "found" thinking? This has been credited to Kant as well.

Stop feeling pride for other people's accomplishments, it's pathetic.

Meanwhile in Germany regionalism and real cultural diversity thrives.

People often associate liberalism with France. That's false. The French Revolution unleashed a wave of tyranny upon the world, it's ideological descent if felt in socialism, communism and fascism.

Germany is the true cradle of freedom and liberty, with it's history of descentralized government, it's town rights and privileges, it's tradition of individualism in the institution of free imperial knights, it's ancient democracy, the Diet.

France is a degenerate centralized shithole like North Korea compared with this glory. Of course, being centralized, authoritarian and militarized it managed to achieve military victories over the more advanced politically and cultured Germans, until they managed to influence the Prussians into adopting French modes of (((government))).

That's when everything went to shit.