Western civilization started in France in the 9th century

>Western civilization started in France in the 9th century

Charlemagne and his German successors saw themselves as a continuation of the Roman emperors of antiquity

Charlemagne had no German successor
The empire died with him, the shitshow the Germans created afterward (HRE) isnt linked to him

It's true though.

It sort of is.
Charlemange's empire splintered into three separate entities, West Francia, Middle Frakia and East Frankia. The eastern unit evolved into Germany whose leader Otto created the Holy Roman Empire.

And was the HRE really a shitshow to begin with?

>a bunch of Greek-influenced Italians totally form a contiguous cultural continuum with modern life despite sharing literally none of the same culture, food, ceremonies, and hardly any of their views because I run a facebook page that says so

That's right. Western Civilization is a Germanic invention.

>Western civilization
Would be a good idea ;^);^);^)

More like Germanic warlords taking some important traits from the Romans while adopting a brand new Religion. Some Scholars tried to adopt much more culture from the Romans, but Western civilization would come to take its own path and the Renaissance was quite superficial in it's adoption of Roman values.

Care to give me any good reasons for why what we define as Europeans got a much better claim to Rome than what modern levantines and North Africans does?

Islam wiped out any traces of Roman culture they had

Because Europeans are christian while levantines and North Africans are muslim.

Christianity is Judaism + Greek-Roman culture.
Islam is Judaism + Arabic culture.

Following your logic, modern Europeans have more in common with Romans and Greeks (Republics) than with the German barbarians that conquered Roman territories (Feudalism)

>Christianity is Judaism + Greek-Roman culture.

End yourself.

He's right though

The fathers of the Church were all either Latin or Greek, and they were all Roman citizens. Not only did they *create* Christianity as we know it modernly, but they changed the Roman Empire itself.

Claiming that Western Civilization was born in the 4th century in the Eastern Mediterranean is more valid than saying it was born in France in the 8th century.

So you would consider Byzantium western?

Of course. After all, Constantinople used to be the core of European civilization during the Middle Ages.

What about the Great schism and stuff like the Latin massacre and Fourth Crusade?
Byzantines and Westerners didn't feel very brotherly.

What about the extreme cuiture shock the Byzantines felt at the incoming Crusaders?

>Byzantines and Westerners didn't feel very brotherly.
Neither did the Germans are the French for a half a millennium. The difference between the Eastern and Western Empires was merely political. There were many Greeks living in Italy, and many Latins and Scandinavians living in Greece.
>What about the Great schism and stuff like the Latin massacre and Fourth Crusade?
You'd also have to exclude the Germans from Western Civilization after the Protestant Reformation and the 30 years war, then.

So, how exactly was the Byzantines closer to the Catholics than the Arabs then?

How the fuck do I have to spell it to you, you stupid fucking idiot?

Greeks are European.
Greeks are Christian.

Arabs are Middle Eastern.
Arabs are Muslims.

European is a cultura-geographicla term that originally only included the Catholic parts of Europe.
And being of the same religion don't have to mean much if the sects hate each other.

>European is a cultura-geographicla term that originally only included the Catholic parts of Europe.
Stupid and completely erroneous, starting with the fact that Europe is a pagan Hellenic word.

Then EXACTLY by your definition, the following groups are NOT Western:
- Scandinavians (not Catholic)
- Germans (not Catholic)
- English (not Catholic)
- Dutch (not Catholic)

While the following ARE Western:
- Hungarians (Catholic)
- Polish (Catholic)
- Irish (Catholic)
- Croatians (Catholic)

Sorry, did intend to say it was used like that during parts of the medievival era.
As for the rest, "are" isn't relevant in this. Back then Europeans were Catholics, now it's just general Christians + some minor Muslim states.

The Catholic Church started civilization

>despite sharing literally none of the same culture, food, ceremonies, and hardly any of their views
I can't say much for culture, but the Romans ate cured meats like salami senpai. Also, many elements of marriage ceremonies have roots in Roman tradition, such as carrying the bride over the threshold.

>what is every civilization from Sumer to the Roman Empire

No

You mean "in the 18th century".

Also the concept of private property is Roman (note: I dont mean they invented, but that it was a major part of their world) to the core. And this concept has been strong in the west ever since. Many aspects of Roman culture shaped the West, more than superficial stuff like food and clothes.

It's all a where you draw the line thing.

In a wider cultural perception, you can trace back usual western values and conceptions to mesopotamia.