I know the elvish language is based on finno-ugric and that elves are nature spirits from germanic mythology and...

I know the elvish language is based on finno-ugric and that elves are nature spirits from germanic mythology and religion, but did tolkien base them partly on ancient germanic people?

They live in the forests, have a special connection to nature, sing sagas, have underground caves (albeit much grander, larger and more fantastical then the ones germanic people would have dug) and have long blond hair, the only thing about tolkien's elves is that they have advanced metal working and good tech, and a refined aesthetic and sensibility where as germanic people were said to be rugged and somewhat wild.

I think there are aspects of all of tolkien's races of middle earth which are based on germanic people, and that makes total sense since its based on germanic mythology and culture. Hobbits for example, while very short and probably based on some pre-indo-european or celtic people of the british isles, but have a folkish, rural life style and live in villages that look like germanic villages, and live under grassy hills like northern germanic people.

Humans too, in middle earth resemble germanic people with their clothing, hair styles and social organisations. There is also a human race in tolkien's universe which is supposed to be specifically based on germanic people, pic related.

I'm interested in this because it emphasizes the more mysterious side of ancient germanic people and the aspects of their culture that weren't really covered or paid attention to by classical historians, since the classical world was obviously more focused on their barbaric, war like side.

This is an ancient swedish cattle call that reminds me of elves, elvish and their special connection with nature
youtube.com/watch?v=KvtT3UyhibQ

its was also used to communicate with other animals and over very high distances
youtube.com/watch?v=Ioum5Xr-nS0

WE WUZ ELVES N SHIEET

Hobbits were based on modern English people, or near-modern, from the 18th-19th century.

>and have long blond hair
they actually don't. in all his works tolkien described them as having black or otherwise dark hair.

>did tolkien base them partly on ancient germanic people?
Yes, he did.
>advanced metal working
That depends on the time period. Germanics have been making the best steel and other metal products since the late middle ages.
Only those from the earliest decades of Roman contact wielded nothing but pointy sticks and the occasional crooked sword. Even Gothic troops consisted predominantly of heavily armored cavalry.

In short, Tolkien was immensely inspired by Germanic folklore, myths and sagas, and references to that are everywhere in his work. He loved Germanic languages as well as Celtic ones and Finnish, and it shows.
Don't go all historical revisionism on him and say that he was racist because his Easterlings and Haradrim were the bad guys.

>Only those from the earliest decades of Roman contact wielded nothing but pointy sticks and the occasional crooked sword.

They had iron spearheads but they did use spears that were only sharpened wood hardened in fire as the point. How do you know their swords were crooked?

>How do you know their swords were crooked?
he doesn't because they weren't

those are sax, their earliest swords were la tene style

Tolkien was interested in Germanic stuff, so naturally there would be some inspiration
Most Elvish civilisations weren't tree based though, and it's pretty clear that hobbits are based off an idealised depiction of English countryside living after England industrialised.

no and no. that's single-edged sword from pre-roman iron age, langsax came to be the thing almost thousand years later. maybe you should open a book once and then.

The real Question is....
Were Orcs really based on Turks?

>Humans too, in middle earth resemble Germanic people with their clothing, hair styles and social organisations

Men of Dale and their predecessors, Men of Rhovanion were mainly based on Slavs.

>and have long blond hair
Statistically speaking, there are more blondes among Slavs, especially among Eastern Slavs and the Moravians who reside in Slovakia,Czechia and Hungary.


Nazi German soldiers.

> elvish language is based on finno-ugric

Tolkien was a finnboo though

>maybe you should open a book once and then.

yeh because because about ancient germanic people in the pre-roman iron age are abundant and easy to find, faggot

Quenya is

It is,according to the author himself who was simply smitten by the language of the Finns.

>did tolkien base them partly on ancient germanic people?
Not really, he based them on Germanic elves and he based some of their stories and histories on germanic stories.

>They live in the forests, have a special connection to nature, sing sagas, have underground caves
All features common to elves, nymphs, fairies etc. from most European folklores.

>have long blond hair
The Noldor and Teleri, which are the ones in middle earth, actually have black hair and grey eyes for the most part.

Humans are the ancestors of the modern people, mostly the Northmen and the Middlemen. Tolkien even has an unfinished story about a young English boy who communicates through dreams with his ancestors, from old Europe, reaching back into the time of legend, to prehistoric europe and eventually back to the time of the sundering of Valinor and Middle-Earth.

Before intensive agriculture was developed in a region, agrarian peoples often lived in proximity to local nomadic pastoralists and hunter gatherers, some of whom retained very different tribal and cultural customs such as the Celts and Saami.

Many mythological creatures seem to follow a similar theme, having their own little societies tucked away in inhospitable mountains, forests and deserts. An uncontacted tribe covered in body paint who occasionally kills a peasant who wanders into their territory could be mistaken for elves, goblins, jinn or oni.

Can we talk about tolkien and how his works are of historic importance to english literature?

elves and other nature spirits were believed to be invisible under normal circumstances and not living in the material world, but in an overlapping realm, to which certain features of the natural world like caves, spriings and waterholes were portals. They were believed to live inside trees, hills, caves, lakes, rivers, streams, mountains, springs, waterholes and groves. Special people could see them with second sight and/or communicate with them and visit their world, even regular people would spontaneously enter trance and have visions of the spirit world.

People weren't as dense as you seem to think they are, they realised that tribes of people living in other territories are tribes of people living in other territories, they knew where they lived and where their territory began and ended.

Elves have been part of superstition, trolls are more common to be believed to exist, sleeping under mountains and overgrown tree stumps. Many believed them to exist and after dark people went inside their houses believing the trolls and all the other mythological beings wandered around.

In the beginning of the king's sagas there's a story on a Swedish king that had his life ended because when saw a dwarf. He was curious and wanted to know more, so he followed the dwarf who went up to a rock, opened the door, the king went inside, the dwarf closed the door on him and he was never seen again.

With prolonged contact with a large tribe these myths would be quickly dropped in favor of the better explanation, but with only occasional encounters with a smaller group or a nomadic group that rarely ventures into that region, myths start to arise. It may be that this tribe was on the decline and died out or moved away before the farmers discovered who they were. Violence might have prevented formal contact.

>not living in the material world, but in an overlapping realm
That kind of fits how someone who never moved from this place of birth might view nomadic peoples who seem to appear then disappear like ghosts. Even if the person seeing them did not literally believe they were ghosts, gossipers the next village over, their children and their children's children might embellish the story.

That's not entirely true. The Vanyar are generally blonde. Most of the rest of the elves have dark hair.

The entire thing is based on Germanic culture you dumbwit.

but it was especially stated that this made them different from every others.

The Vanyar didn't live in Middle Earth though.

holy fuck this is some new level of autistic WE WUZery

I don't remember such statement ever being made. And besides, we meet other elves who have no Vanyar ancestry with blond hair in the books. Haldir and Thranduil off the top of my head; and Glorfindel if his name is actually accurate about his appearance.

A couple with Vanyar ancestry do. Galadriel being the most prominent example. Besides, Valinor is something of an important place.

>It is,according to the author himself who was simply smitten by the language of the Finns.
Important aspects of it are, but there are many other influences as well.

t. Slav

Numenor=Atlantis
Gondor=Roman empire
Pre-numenoreans=celts, illyrians, thracians, etc.
men of the north=germanic peoples
Haradrim=people of the south, semites, berbers, negroes
Easterlings=people of the east - turks, persians, mongols

Men of the North are Norse people specifically. Stop lumping all Germanics together. They aren't one single ethnicity.

No. Rohirim are obviously anglo-saxons.

Yes. Rohirim is Anglo-Saxon, but the Men of the North are Norse

Rohirim are men of the north

They are descendant from the men of the North, but they are considered to be separated now.

>but they are considered to be separated now.
by who? you? lol

Sure. By me. Because they speak a different language than the Northmen does.

I think you have some kind of mental problems friendo. Who allowed you to use a computer?

no they aren't. men of the north are men of the north.

Since you're not arguing but instead epik trolin, I assume you agree.

You guys know that LotR is fiction right?

you're not making an argument so there is nothing to agree with, you're just shitposting

i don't even think you realize we're talking about tolkien here you're just being a stubborn autist

But he did make an argument. The men of the North and the people of Rohan speak different languages. The Rohirim speak an Old English based language and the men of the North speak a Scandinavian based language

>Nazi German soldiers.
>started writing before WWII

The men of the north is a groupation that includes rohan, they speak various languages, not a single one.

no, men of the north is a groupation that includes men of dale, men of mirkwood and beornings. rohirrim are rohirrim even if they are related to these three groups.

>men of the north is a groupation that includes men of dale, men of mirkwood and beornings
and rohan, there is absolutely no reason not to include them

you're arguing for the sake of argument, fuck off

>there is absolutely no reason not to include them
except that they are different people who live in different place, speak different tongue and have different culture.

tolkien considered them northmen

your opinion on the matter is as worthless as you

No.