Was Indonesia better off during its Hindu-Buddhist days?

Was Indonesia better off during its Hindu-Buddhist days?

>SRIVIJAYA EMPIRE
>MAJAPAHIT EMPIRE

Why Indonesia... Why.. did u become Islam :3

bumping because I know nothing about Indonesian history and as an Australian I think it might be relevant one day

It sad that they became muslim, but for a muslim country it is not too bad I guess.

The trade that the growing Arabian Empire provided was invaluable. So adopting their religion was only natural.

we wuz buddhists n sheet

by the time of islam the hindu-buddhist kingdom everywhere in indonesia was already crumbling. islam provided better social (no caste system) and economic benefit, arab traders were giving discount on their stuff if they converted to islam.

i think indonesia is the only one place islam actually spreads without some sort of armed conflict taking place

Indonesian and Malaysian Islam is chill

Sure, they still do their "shari'a courts" bullshit, but it's all pretty mild, compared to other muslim countries

the only place they do sharia laws in indonesia was aceh, only because they asked for it and chimped out hard with their GAM

that's what happens when you let in mudslimes... it's convert or be killed... rip in pieces europe

Indon here, Islam spread because the huge Hindu-Buddhist empires collapsed from civil war. There was no violent conquest, the Arabs came like Jews and spread their religion like crazy

>islam provided better social (no caste system
I don't think Indonesia or Southeast Asia in general ever really adopted the caste system outside of the elite.

But you're right overall, conversion to Islam was just the Indonesian way of fitting in to the wider Islamisation of the Indian Ocean trade. It also gave local towns and ports increased autonomy from the declining Majapahit empire.

>islam provided better social (no caste system)
Abrahamics always use the tactic of the slave revolt.

>Arab
No it was Indian Muslims

If the Sultans were peaceful, why did the Javanese court runaway to Bali?

Was it worth betraying thier traditional ways?

Majapahit and Srivijaya were the golden age of the archipelago anyways

there were three teories, one is like you said was islamic indian merchant from gujarat, this was from marco polo

the second is that the theory that islam was spread there by persian merchant, this theory was supported with the fact that some of indonesian muslims practice shiite traditions like ashura despite being sunni.

the third theory was that islam came straight from the arab trader in the arabian peninsula in the 7th century, i forgot how this one goes, i think there is some diplomatic interation beetwen the third rashidun caliph uthman and the local sumatran kingdom. there is also tang dinasty record which mentioned the existence of ta-shih (muslim) in sixth century

Same reason why Byzantine scholars fled to Italy. Why would a 15th century intellectual serve someone who does not share their faith if they could find someone else

Who the fuck cares you don't see people bitching about Islams and Christianities spread allover the world that much.

The claim that Islam spread 100% peacefully through trade is misleading. There was no foreign conquest by Arabs or Indian muslims, and the first converts were due to Indian and Chinese Muslim traders. But local sultans often waged jihad against their neighbours, and there were many instances of forced conversion.

>islam
>no caste system

AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

?

Philippines here.

We had a caste system. Although not as retardedly institutionalized as Hindus and it was pretty fluid up and down.

I think he wanted to sperg about the importance of various arab tribal affiliations but that certainly didn't matter in fucking Indonesia.

well that's what Soeharto said...

What are some recommended readings for Indonesian history and religion?

>traditional ways
I hope you realize they didn't just spring up out nowhere one day already Buddhists and shit
Peoples and cultures change and adapt, you dummy
It's natural

yes

how do we bring it back?

sumatrans was the first conversioned by arabs and indians, later java was conversioned by chinese and cham vietnamese muslims. which explains why acenhnese go full durqa muslim, while javanese are heretics worshipping things like southern sea serpent godess along with allah

definitely not peaceful, majapahit destruction was caused by converted muslim prince going full durqa and killing his own father (the king)

bump please

>it was fluid
so like the caste system in india?

What did Indonesia in this period look like? Got any illustrations?

>betray doing things the way you're used to doing them
The fuck is even that mean?

you don't know much about the history of the indian caste system do you.

Malaysian Islam is not as chill as Indonesia's average Islam. But Aceh is definitely no chill.

>Was Indonesia better off during its Hindu-Buddhist days?
They were better off under the Dutch

>Your background literally dogs you no matter what you achieve in life.
>Fluid.

poo-in-loos get buttflustered when you point out the obvious

Majapahit Empire was basically like Bali today culturally, but economically much wealthier

just like the rest of the world then :^)

Also, feel free to disregard the guptas, the vijaynagara empire, the marathas, the Senas and the like because they weren't initially princes by birth.

>breaking the mold of a rigid system
>it's f-f-fluid guys!
wew

>it was totally rigid
>except in these cases and several institutionalized practices that allowed for advancing one's social position.

depends on what you mean by 'indonesian' since indonesia itself is yugoslavia tier mix of many different ethnics.
western indonesia is pretty much simillar to indochina. with dominant ethnic being the hindu javanese famous for majapahit empire vs the buddhist malays famous for sriwijaya empire, which has always been rival since god knows when
then theres eastern indonesia which is closer to somewhere between the prehispanic phillipine and tribal papuan aborigines

wrong, cultural wise the closest represantation of majapahit culture is the culture of yogyakarta sultanate, which has preserve old hindu/buddhist tradition and pretty much the direct sucessor of majapahit
balinese culture is javanese refugees culture mixed with native tribal bali culture, its vastly different. for example even architecture wise javanese candi temple is more simillar to khmer architecture (like angkor wat) than balinese pura temple

>Yugoslavia
>different ethnicities

India is a better example

Wait if they were a sultinates how was the culture preserved? Anyways I'm talking about modern Indonesia

Also Java has two architectural styles.
Centra Javanese which are stone and similar to Khmer and older than 1000 CE
Eastern Java styles are newer than 1000 CE and look more like Balinese temples

Pic related is Pura Maospahit literally in Majapahit style

Also random question, do you happen to know if Balinese or Javanese script is closer to Kawi script. I think Balinese script is older but idk