Can we discuss the failure of "return to conservatism" that is the staple of failed societies

Can we discuss the failure of "return to conservatism" that is the staple of failed societies.

Literally every civilization that was once "great" but is collapsing under its own weight goes though a phase where the people attempt to go backwards (xenophbia and racism, faux "family values", taking away rights from women) instead of fixing the real core problems that are plaguing their respective societies

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>real core problems that are plaguing their respective societies
Such as?

Out of curiosity, what is the comic book that is the source for the image on the bottom?

I'll use example of the Roman Empire during the third century, forcing everyone to make sacrifices to the gods literally did nothing to fix a broken political system where gaining power meant rebelling and killing the sitting emperor just to be killed yourself a few months later

Issues african americans face in the US, antisemitism and need for more help for israel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher_(comics)

Since when is it a staple?
Societies fall, get overrun by barbarians and these barbarians are often conservative thenselves.
All in all it does not speak badly of conservatism itself.

>every society is the Roman Empire

>these barbarians are often conservative thenselves
traditionalist doesn't equal conservative

What issues do Africans face in America? Black on black violence is obviously the biggest one but what else?

So, this shit was real...

Being shot by the po po.

I'm not sure what you mean?

A culture that is adverse to their own is typically considered barbarous. The west Muslims for the most part to be barbarians and they think that of westerners.

To be fair, returning to conservatism would help in the Crisis of the 3rd Century.

/pol/ is not 'The West'.

Black on black violence is a symptom of failed economic policies that send manufacturing jobs overseas and left the most vulnerable group in America stranded in dying cities

This kind of thing is completely distasteful.

More whites are shot each year though

Nah, but when a society falls it often gets conquered by neighboors who are not necessarily as sophisticated as the society.
Sassanids and arabs.
That one caliphate that got busted by Berbertribes I believe.
China and the mongols.

Woman rights are never really improved by those invasions id wager making the point of "faux" family values and ingroup preference being a sign of weakness kinda pointless.

Seriously though, why are neo nazis often completely undesirable people? Out of shape, shitty haircuts, poor education, weak chins, working dead-end jobs etc.

They're never the aryan gods they circlejerk so much about. Why?

You dont have to be /pol/ to see the sauds as savages.
Liberals are just as disgusted by their laws.

Yet it was radical reforms by Diocletian that bought the Empire more time that it warranted, even if most of his restructuring failed when he retired the split administrative split between east and west gave the eastern empire a millennia more than it would have had if it remained shackled to the sinking ship that was Europe

Oh yes. It's a fairly distasteful comic. Bretty gud if you're into that sort of thing though.

National action looks kinda handsome.
Maybe you suffer from confirmation bias.

Disapproving of laws is not the same thing as considering people literal savages.

>National action looks kinda handsome.
They look lame and mediocre.

>Why?
THA HEBREW MAN BE KEEPIN' HIM DOWN

That's because there are more white people.

Well they are.
And I know some quiet liberal guys who regard them as such.
Cultural relativism is an own kind of madness, not subscribing to it must not be an indicator fkr right wing thinking.

>Nah, but when a society falls it often gets conquered by neighboors who are not necessarily as sophisticated as the society.

When a dam failed because the government stopped paying to maintain it, do you blame the water?

>Sassanids and arabs.

The Sassanids were broke after their war with the Byzantines, many cities weren't even militarily contested,t he people simply opened the gates because paying jizya was cheaper than paying the high taxes the Sassanids were demanding

>That one caliphate that got busted by Berbertribes I believe.

How is having institutional discrimination against the people who make up the bulk or your army good social policy?

>China and the mongols.

The Song were a political clusterfuck at that point

>Literally every civilization that was once "great" but is collapsing under its own weight goes though a phase where the people attempt to go backwards (xenophbia and racism, faux "family values", taking away rights from women)

Good b8 m8

Just like if you take a bunch of random people from the street. Handsome enough for a political group.
Never heard of a sucessful movement made up of fashion models.

I find a lot of things that go on in the USA legal system to be utterly disgraceful but I don't regard Americans as savages.

>these barbarians are often conservative thenselves.
This logic is beyond retarded

>He doesn't know about the aryan patriot of reclaim Australia
>He buys media ad-hom

So it's a white issue, not a black one

You mean these people?

You're not making much sense.

Then you are not consequent

I went with OPs logic of conservatism being family values, taking away woman rights and not liking foreigners.

Yep understood there was a reason they fell and I did not think otherwise as their fall is an undeniable fact.
Doesnt changes that tge people who took advantage of it were necessarily more civilised or else they would have had the luxury to even get such problems as "bad bureaucracy", "bad finaces" and having politics complex enough to end in clusterfucks.
What did you even want to argue about?

This is just childish.

There's a great big grey area between approving of every aspect of a society and considering all the people within the society to be literal savages.

You need to grow up a bit, son.

There is no grey area. Either people are savages or not.

Do you seriously try to compare the US legal system to the literal interpretation of a 6th century behaviour codex?

Whites don't make black people listen to rap music, walk out on pregnant mothers, smoke crack, commit petty crime and we DEFINITELY don't make them shoot each other in record numbers. But it's somehow our responsibility to fix the black community? Until the black community actually has a conversation with itself and doesn't just blame others for their problems they'll be stuck in their hoods forever

>I don't regard Americans as savages.
Why not?
Besides a few upper class people in New York, California and San Francisco, America is irredeemable.

Yes. That is accurate, but that doesn't support what you have been saying or refute what I said.

Sure, why not.

>Sauds
You don't see too many "Sauds" in the West and most of them come here to buy sports teams and drink champagne.
The vast majority of Muslims come from less backward countries.
Equating "Muslim" with "Saudi/Wahabi" is not even a stereotype, it's just stupidity.

Because the US legal system can react to change and was build up on reasoning to some extend in order to evolve with the technological and ethical maturement of one of the most sucessful and dominant powers on earth over the last 400 years while central arabs were stagnant cameldrivers squatting on their dunes and being content with their legacy as heirs to the prophet while living under the thumb of levantines, ottomans and then british without ever absorbing a glimmer of what made their rulers greater then thwmselves resulting in 21th century theocracys with a late antiquity mindset squatting on oilfields?

Wahhabis happen to sit on their most holy place and have considerable influence in the islamic world as they fund the expansion of their strain of sunnism generously.
Many muslims also seem to venerate their language and attire as it is the one of the prophet.
Hell even some afghanis paint their beards red because it was an arabic tradition the prophet was fond of.
You cannot diaconnect what is going on in arabia with the rest of Islam.

What would you consider the "core" problem then? A problem that can't be traced back to the 1960s and the rise of progressivism?

>M-Muh corporatism
And even then you're not talking about going "backwards" instead of fixing the real problem. In that case you're saying that mass migration and a decline of family values is a SYMPTOM. A symptom that still needs to be solved, but solved by directly attacking the disease causing the symptoms.

You literally cannot argue that mass migration, the "Grand Remplacement" and the decline of family values and the nuclear family aren't problems.

The USA casually ignores many of the reasoned principles of the legal system it inherited from the English, though.

Just as one example, have the Saudis been systematically kidnapping citizens of other countries, torturing and effectively sentencing them to punishments for crimes without any form of due process?

It's no good inheriting decent legal system and then totally fucking it up.

That still doesn't make every Muslim culturally Saudi or religiously Wahabi you derp.

>even some Afghanis paint their beards red
wow
such theocracy
much fanaticism

>the 1960s and the rise of progressivism
That was the beginning of the DECLINE of progressivism

>the "Grand Remplacement"
>conspiracy theories are problems
Maybe it's a "wow I can't believe we're wasting so much time debating this nonsense" type of problem.

>the nuclear family
Yeah that is a problem.

>Be white supremacist
>Cover yourself in tattoos.
Why.

okok
I cannot argue with that and before you bring in that minority of arab hating shias to bust my narrative further let me just say that my point was mainly that you connect large groups often with their most prominent representants.
>The west Muslims for the most part to be barbarians and they think that of westerners.
This was the sentence it was about.
A muslim hears "the west" and thinks of america and the france/brit/germ trias (and all bad stereotypes about the 4), not fucking portugal.
A westener thinks of Islam and Arabia with all the bloody mental imagery comes to his mind, not the bosnians nor a bangladeshi college student.

>have the Saudis been systematically kidnapping citizens of other countries, torturing and effectively sentencing them to punishments for crimes without any form of due process?

Not necessarily kidnapping people, but it can happen that they simply take your passport away, trap you in their state and then force you to do stuff for them.

Also foreign workers can be kept as a sort of houseslave with the abuse being outside of any legal framwork.

>That was the beginning of the DECLINE of progressivism
If something declines the moment it begins, it's a shit ideology we should never have considered.

>Grand Remplacement
>Conspiracy theory
The only conspiracy is that it is being done on purpose, and even then conspiracy theories are not always false (remember the Jacobin club? Probably the biggest conspiracy in modern history).

The fact that this is actually happening is not a conspiracy, though. Intentions aside, it IS happening according to the projections. Americans will be a minority in their own country by 2050, Brits in 2066 (they're already a minority in their own capital) and as for the French we simply do not know because somehow statistics are racist.

>Yeah that is a problem.
Yeah, and how can that not be traced to progressivism? How is conservatism somehow stupid?

Worshipping the old for the sake of the old is just as retarded as worshipping the new for the sake of the new. But when we see something go horrible wrong, it's only natural to retrace oru steps to see where it went wrong, and to desire to go back to the moment before it went wrong to change things and advance in a more healthy manner.

To fight the subhuman you must become the subhuman

>the beginning of the DECLINE

wat?
Are you american?
In europe it all started in the late 60s.

Like what?

Progressivism didn't begin in the 60s, you fucking idiot.

>The only conspiracy is that it is being done on purpose
You got it the other way around again.
For there to be a conspiracy, it must be done on purpose, otherwise it's not a fucking conspiracy.

>conspiracy theories are not always false
If your best argument is "well some crazy stuff actually turns out to be real sometimes" you can just shut up.

>Americans will be a minority in their own country by 2050, Brits in 2066
Obama will be 89 years old by the time his sinister plan comes to fruition, and Cameron 100 years old.

lmao

progressivism goes back to the 19th century

>Progressivism didn't begin in the 60s, you fucking idiot.
Wait, you're talking about the Whig idea that as time goes on, everything gets better, right? While that is at the foundation of what I mean, that's not really what I was talking about. I was talking about the 1960's, left wing social justice movement. '68 and the like.

>For there to be a conspiracy, it must be done on purpose, otherwise it's not a fucking conspiracy.
Yeah, that's my point you double nigger. It's entirely possible that the Grand Remplacement is happening on purpose, but it's also possible that it's just a side effect of something else. The fact that it is HAPPENING is not a conspiracy, so you can't just handwave it away with the words "conspiracy theory".

>If your best argument is "well some crazy stuff actually turns out to be real sometimes" you can just shut up.
How about you try fucking reading? The facts are there, the only "conspiracy" theory is the existence of an intent.

>Obama will be 89 years old by the time his sinister plan comes to fruition, and Cameron 100 years old.
And when did I point fingers to either of them, you fucking retard?

Try reading what I say instead of setting up strawmen to knock down.

It got pushed back quiete often, be it by commis, fascists or religious groups who were never touched by it in the first place and it is today perceived as being in its blooming phase during the 60s here as that was when it actually collected considerable power.

because white nationalism has become a marginalized ideology in the modern west. No self respecting person would openly declare those beliefs and still be accepted by his community. Although, go back to the early 20th century and white nationalists were often very educated, wealthy, influential.

late 19th century/ early 20th century progressivism wasn't left wing though. You could even say it was right wing in some regards, especially morally.

It's regaining popularity though. In Eastern Europe, mainstream politicians constantly say what would be considered white nationalist rhetoric in the West (such as Orban saying that Hungary needs no refugees, that refugees are a burden on their society, will demographically replace them and that IF Hungary is forced to take in refugees it will only take in fellow Christians) and in the West once fringe parties are becoming an established force. In France the FN has become the largest opposition party in every single regional council, the largest French party in the EU parliament and is on its way to make massive gains in the Assemblée Nationale. Even if Marine Le Pen doesn't win the presidential elections (which could still happen), the FN is more in the public sphere than ever before. And that when they once started out as nostalgic, anti-Republican Vichy apologists. And look at Trump in America too! Everyone said he could never win the Republican primaries, and now he might end up becoming president of the USA. Purely because white Americans are sick of seeing their country become an extension of Mexico.

>trump
>white nationalism

Stopped reading. Trump is a white nationalist to lefties and delusional /pol/tards, in reality he's just popular because he actually takes a stand against shit americans are upset about (illegal immigration, Political Correctness, etc).

>people attempt to go backwards (xenophbia and racism, faux "family values", taking away rights from women) instead of fixing the real core problems
People who believe history has a moral arc on which progress can be measured are retards.

Morality is just a succession of trends, like fashion, and usually playing off or reacting to a previous trend without much rhyme or reason.

>in reality he's just popular because he actually takes a stand against shit americans are upset about (illegal immigration, Political Correctness
Yeah, and that makes him popular especially among the white middle class. His catchphrase is also "make America great again", expressing his desire to restore the nation to its former glory. This plan includes cutting down on third world migration.

Hmmmmm......

Wrong, it was morally progressive but in a way we didn't recognize today.

These days, progressives want to legalize prostitution to protect prostitutes.

Back in the day, progressives wanted to ban prostitution to stop "white slavery" and prevent adultery.

>This plan includes cutting down on third world migration.
What is bad or white nationalist about this? There are many secular egoist reasons to oppose this. Third world migration has made life in many a European city worse for the natives.

Emperor Julian attempting to revert back to both paganism and Neo-platonism while trying to revive the Republican spirit.

I said right wing, not conservative. Progressives were very much morally right wing. 18th century morality already held christian beliefs about prostitution, drunkenness, etc being sinful, progressives just took that further by demanding society actively root them out. Progressives were not about flying in the face of traditions like the modern left is.

>What is bad or white nationalist about this?
It's a label the left wing media loves to throw around, and he's pretty much considered the second coming of Hitler.

But you're right, when going strictly by its base definition, none of the things I mentioned are white nationalist.

Lol k

To be honest the main thing you are demonstrating is how useless many of these labels are.

It happens everywhere but I notice overuse of this sort of wide-ranging pigeon-holing coming from the USA in particular. It seems you can't have a political discussion with an American without it immediately turning into "the right says x, the left says y, liberals, conservatives, liberals, conservatives, right, left, yah boo" as if views can't be made on individual issues and you have to choose from two lists.

By the way there are still massively mixed views on "the left" about prostitution with some wanting to completely legalise it and some wanting to criminalise the users of prostitutes. I guess it is an issue that is more libertarianism vs authoritarianism and what works without worrying about what is "progressive" or not.

>I guess it is an issue that is more libertarianism vs authoritarianism
And even then that doesn't really cover the charge. Many authoritarian leaders throughout history saw the use in legalizing prostitution. It is an issue an sich that relies mostly on moral arguments. And you can use both progressive and classical arguments for and against prostitution. Just think about Aquinas' on the nose comparison to a city and its sewers.

I agree with everything you said, however I was just trying to make the point that American Progressives during the turn of the 20th century had very little in common with modern left wing progressives. I actually think they have more in common with what we currently refer to as right wing nationalists.

>Rome doesn't enforce borders well
>Clearly this is a conservative problem

The opposite of a bad thing is also a bad thing. NYC, SF are both terrible places full of terrible people.

Best America is the moderate liberal cities of the midwest. Pittsburgh, Madison, MPLS/St. Paul, etc.

See the pic-related utopia.

That was a great idea though.

>such as Orban saying that Hungary needs no refugees, that refugees are a burden on their society, will demographically replace them and that IF Hungary is forced to take in refugees it will only take in fellow Christians
>considered white nationalist rhetoric

>NYC, SF are both terrible places full of terrible people.

You've literally never been to either of those places.

>its a "progressive" doesn't understand he/she is a cog in destabilizing a nation episode

The very system of emasculating males and using immigration to break down conquered nations has been used for millennia, you can even find examples in the Bible of it. Xenophobia and racism are born out of self-awareness and cultural/ethnic identity, the removal of both isn't an attempt at egalitarianism but the deconstruction of nations and peoples.
Pic related, enjoy being a another face in a sea of globalism.

I don't get how someone who loves history can be a leftist. Everything that is good deserves to be preserved, but leftism wants to destroy everything...

It isn't leftism that is bad, leftism combined with nationalism and/or ethnocentrism keeps the nation safe for it's citizens.
Its, as the OP stated, the thinking that "(xenophbia and racism, faux "family values", taking away rights from women" is somehow backwards.
>faux family values

This phrase is vague and puzzling.

This. What would be "true" family values in OP's view? Diveorce? Abortion? Gay marriage? Polyamory? Pedophilia? Bestiality?

The issues: Blacks, antisemitism and help for israel.

>Blacks
I'm my humble opinion, what will fix the great majority of problems for black people, not only in america but everywhere (i live in Brazil and ALL races here need what i'll say) is a change in the culture that it's imposed on them. "Black culture" revolves around criminal behavior, getting rich by ilicit means and fucking bitches (in other words, no family planning, therefore single mothers and bad education for the kid). If this was changed, in a slow pace I believe it would start solving or decreasing the problems they face.
It is like the Bible says: take out the speck in your eye first, then try to help your brother. What this means is that if you want to change things around you you have to change yourself first. In other passage from the bible it says that you should seek for the light of the lord shine from you to iluminate others; this means that you should make a example out of yourself to influence others. So who can solve their own problems? them. It does help to have midia at your side, if they stoped bombarding people with bad messages as seen in music or movies it would help a lot. But even if this were not to be the case, it would also be possible by themselves.
Blacks in america are very different, the stereotype is that they dont know how to speak inglish properly, they have a thug like behavior, they are violent, real animals. All stereotypes have a bit of truth in them. Actually i've never seen some things as i have seen in black america in Brazil, not even in favelas or the northeast of my country. Will they continue to be seen as monkeys, or they will change for themselves? right now Martin Luther King must be rolling in his grave.

>Antisemitism and help for israel
How doesthis affect america in any means? America have been destroying a entire country for the Jews, they created a "tribunal" just to punish "war crimes" that never existed before to give legitimacy to jewish claim in palestine. I dont know what happens behind the curtains,but america is reeeeeaaaally under jewish control. Why would a Country want to land a people so hated that have been expeled from everywhere they've been? this landing of these people cost money and lives. It is wise to look in a situation for who is benefiting from it, then you'll have a bigger picture of the scene. Usa is gaining what? maybe oil? now, what is israel gaining? a entire fucking country. There is nothing that makes explainable what USA and Israel is doing. it does not matter if people like jews or not, USA is going to help and serve their overlords whatsoever

Because part of history is a progression out of backwards idiocy.

>tfw people keep putting up those posters next to our house for 5 years or so
>we're the only black family in the neighbourhood and our house is secluded

Your lack of understanding in regards to black issues in America just shows your own privilege.

No I am not saying they are perfect, but many of their issues stem from things beyond their control

Fuck off white guilt faggot

What does "white guilt" have to do with economic policies that destroyed the base of working black families?

The fact that you instantly associate black issues with "white guilt" just shows how racist you are and that you are just willing to find ANY reason to hate black people regardless of the information put in front of you

>black supremacism and Zionism is fine
>but White pride is the worst thing ever
Leftpol "logic"

How are black supremacists not the worst that the black community has to offer?

Forget Obama, Powell, Condolezza Rice etc, associated the best blacks with extremism is typical conservatard logic

>posts an anti white image form a black supremacist fb page
I'm not even gonna read your post, leftpol shill

Rights for women is a core problem though