I'm in a red state and I'm surrounded by people who insist that Hitler was a leftist...

Prove to me he wasnt a leftie

>what is the Night of the Long Knives?

I don't see what the first ruler of the Akkadian Empire had to do with his post?

He was a bit of an idiot.

Leftists turn on each other all the time

What is the murder of Trotsky?

He was a centrist extremist. National Socialism incorporates the best ideas of all ideologies to form the perfect society

Fascism=communism=totalitarianism

all leftist ideals

>red state

Which one?

>I'll just make bad comparisons with something else
>that'll show him

There was red on the NSDP flag for a reason you know.

Did stalin stop being a commie after sending someone to kill trotsky?

Yeah, i guess the two things are comparable.

Was Stalin killing Trotsky part of a purge of the left of the Communist party?

Really?

Quit pulling random horseshit out of your ass, you're on Veeky Forums now. Not a "just post something, anything!" board.

Dont you think that both stalin and hitler wanted to take control and destroy those who objected them? Dont you think that not everything is strictly ideological?

Do you really think national socialism was a "right" movement?

How stupid can you be?

The political spectrum isn't just a monolinear scale running from authoritarianism to sunshine and rainbows libertarian paradise. Yes the Nazis had Socialist in their name, but in practice the economic ideals of national socialism were quickly abandoned and the supporters were actively purged in the Night of Long Knives. What the Nazis did do in practice was provide increased state support to extant private industry, which is more traditionally fascistic.

Leftism in the modern Western world isn't really beneficial considering the staggering strides we've made since the French Revolution, but anyone saying that Leftism ultimately leads to Nazis is pretty stupid to be sure. It CAN lead to a police state if not executed properly.

National Socialism is in the same vein economically as leftism

hitler was a leftist

socialism by definition is a leftist movement

national socialism
nazi

get it

that sounds like nazi

Jeez, Stalin killed 1/3 of the Soviet Union!

Didn't know that,

I don't get why people hold Hitler, Stalin, and Mao to their death counts. They don't care about that shit. Communist and racist understand you have to crack a lot of eggs to get an omelette. I guess it's because people that are afraid of them realize they were the eggs not the ones enjoying the omelette?

Communist and fascist*

They were left as in:
Left: More govt. Intervention
Right: Less govt. Intervention

How is this so difficult to understand?

There's a YouTube """celebrity""" that calls himself that

the notsis weren't socialist, and communism is to socialism as drowning is to water

Being extreme to the left and right doesn't make you centrist. Political parties are not mathematical means dummy.

Being extreme towards each end of the spectrum makes you a new political party. National socialist isn't a terrible description for Nazism because it was a nationalistic socialistic dictatorship that valued individualism, but certainly nothing close to a purely socialistic government or an individualistic one.

not really

Wow you are so enlightened tell me more

It's because those people are liberals, and like all liberals their world view derives from John Locke. Locke basically said that all humans were, by nature, reasonable and generally good. Post-liberal ideologies like fascism, communism, and Nazism reject the Lockean view of human nature. Marxist ideologies view the world in strictly material means, so obviously cracking eggs isn't a problem for them. Fascist ideologies are less materialistic, but they can be traced back to the nihilistic ideas of the Futurists.

strawpoll.me/10942391

>ugh why is everyone but me so STUPID
you know people under 18 aren't allowed to post on Veeky Forums riht

too much truth for you bud?
maybe stop killing the mandem alri commie?

As usual corpiecucks fail to understand the nuance and agenda behind Fascist and Nazi ideology.

This.

Locke is maybe the most sheltered fag in existence, but thankfully based Hobbes put him in his place

They're stupid Americans who don't know about the political spectrum, you should probably ignore their opinions.

Ok, how was Hitler not a leftist. I'm not asking this to challange and "prove you wrong because muh right wing brain tells me to" but I am curious as to hear your case.

He was a nationalist and he had no issue with private property and capitalist means of production.

In other words, a leftist.

Except for the part where the political left is internationalist and opposed to capitalism.

Tell them that the Nazis DID have leftists in their ranks...until they were all violently purged in 1934.

Ask them if the name Ernst Rohm rings any bells.

>implying Americans know about history

>history began in the 20th century

Embarrassing.

That's the saddest part about it. The Night Of Long Knives is the perfect example of just how evil Hitler was, just how much he was willing to do for power. Rohm was the closest thing Hitler had to a friend. He was the ONLY high ranking Nazi who could ever address Hitler as "Adolf" instead of "Fuhrer". And Hitler sold his soul for the loyalty of the army. Hitler murdered his own best friend for power without any hesitation.

That's the kind of shit that should be taught about the Rise of the Third Reich and how far they were willing to debase themselves, but nope. Practically nobody knows about it. Rohm and the SA might as well not have existed.

Your singular opinion on the internet isn't going to change well established terms.

>Amongst researchers, there is agreement that the Left includes anarchists, anti-capitalists, anti-imperialists, believers in civil rights,[8] communists, democratic socialists, greens, left-libertarians, progressives, socialists, social democrats and social liberals.[9][10][11]

>Researchers have also said that the Right includes capitalists, conservatives, fascists,[12] imperialists, monarchists, nationalists, neoconservatives, neoliberals, racists,[13] reactionaries, religious fundamentalists, right-libertarians, social authoritarians and traditionalists.[14]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left–right_politics

Ok, being left doesn't mean you automatically hate capitalism nor does it mean you oppose capitalism a well as a sense of national pride.

Nationalism is neither left nor right. Nationalism is just the idea that your people (in the sense of a nation state) must be unified and have a cohesive bond because of the region you are in. Associating Nationalism as left or right is missing what nationalism is as an idea.

Capitalism is also neither left nor right but a theory of economics. Under capitalism it is required for private property rights but that isn't wholly left or right as well.

Give me an actual answer rather than general platitudes. Here is an example

"I believe that Hitler was actually right wing because he increased national focus on military production (reinvigorating the military)"

A fleggiling stab by saying "HES CAPITALIST AND NATIONALIST" is extremely vague. I am asking you to be more specific.

>Wikipedia

Guy c'mon.

Refer to the footnotes then. The point remains that nobody besides you believes the Nazis were left-wing.

Capitalism and nationalism is very much right-wing since the political left is internationalist and anti-capitalist.

And nationalism is a principle of the right.

So Hitler was clearly a moderate, with nuanced, balanced views.

I never stated that Nazis were left wing. I only was curious as to what the argument for nazis being right wing is.

You cannot be an internationalist capitalist? Good god you are over general with your statements.

I am asking you to be a critical thinker here and be absolutely clear on your definitions/view points instead of being extremely vague.

Here, I'll give you my definition of Nazi/National socialist.

National Socialism is a top down authoritarian government with expansionism as its goals. It requires central focused power in a strong government with a charismatic leader to paint the image/ideals of the nation towards a seated goal. It requires the government to be the key focal point with a strong bureaucracy to facilitate such need. It's essential focus' are National Pride, a strong robust military, and government with dictatorial focus towards all endeavors.

National Pride is used to help unify the country under the support of the government, this comes in the form of heritage achievements and accomplishments from the nations past.

A strong robust military to defend the nation state as well as a source of national pride and used to expand the control of the government beyond its boarders to establish new boarders

Central Government: The government needs to be the guiding hand in all matters. Granting its people selected rights as well as operations for business. This comes in the form of supporting populist policies and implementing them with absolute authority.

In short Centralized Authoritarian Populist Expansionist Governing style.

If you were to ask me define "right wing" I would paint a picture of classical liberalism and left wing as "progressive" that being said however though the US has some ass backwards politics. Conservative in the US has an extreme difference than Conservative in say Norway, France or Poland.

Nazis were only socialist by name

Actual socialists don't go around persecuting previous members of socialist parties (with the exception of crackpots like Stalin) or denouncing communism

As for what is "left" and what is "right" these terms aren't worth arguing because their definitions change dramatically from culture to culture and even person to person

>You cannot be an internationalist capitalist?
Of course you can. As an internationalist capitalist you're not right-wing though, you're well likely politically centrist.

>If you were to ask me define "right wing" I would paint a picture of classical liberalism and left wing as "progressive"
Classical liberalism was in opposition to the conservative Monarchists - are those left-wing by your standards then? Is Monarchism a politically left-leaning ideology?

In Europe it pretty much works like this:

Left wing:

Communists, Socialists, Greens, ...

Centre:

(Classical) Liberals, Moderate conservatives (e.g. Merkel)

Right wing:

Conservative, Nationalists, Neo-Nazis, ...

Holy shit, I knew i should never had open a Veeky Forums thread about Hitler, but ignorance is strong here.

Anybody who thinks that Hitler and nazism were leftist is a retarded moron.

Nazism is a form of fascism, which is THE rightist ideology.
Only absolute, divine monarchy is further right.

Fascism is a broad right wing movement, and is anti-collectivist at its very heart.

Evolutionism??

What does natural selection have to do with murdering members of a religious sect?

Hitler wasn't a leftist, but he was a collectivist, like most lefties.
It would be more accurate to say that collectivism has lead to more genocide than individualism.

Since nazis are fascists, which is rightist, and Hitler deliberately murdered his former ally in a power grab, your post is utterly ignorant of political reality.

>It would be more accurate to say that collectivism has lead to more genocide than individualism.
Which shouldn't come as a surprise because in order to genocide people you need to be more than them - otherwise it's not a genocide but a war.

Individualists are the guys who end up being genocided by the collectivists because they're helpless against the masses.

Nazis are death worshippers.

Perfect for perverts, thugs and murderers.

>Fascism is anti-collectivist
>Right wing = individualist

Lefties are THIS deluded.
Collectivist scum

Idiot.

Totalitarianism is neither right or left.

Fascism is ultra right wing.

Communism is left wing socialism.

Nazism is very much collectivist.

For blood.

Eat death, fascist turd.

Fascism elevates a national or racial identity over all others.

The opposite of collective action.

Since when is the nation not a collective?

I can be collectivist even if I don't let everyone partake in my collective.

how is this the only correct line of thought in the entire thread

I still don't think that collectivism is the characteristic feature of leftism though. Nazism is right-wing AND collectivist.

All real-life examples of fascism don't neatly fall into the boundaries set by the word,"fascism".

When philosophies about government are marked by historians and scholars and defined by one singular word, not every single example of said singular word is going to be exactly the same.

Why do I have to explain homogenization to you?

Monarchy is Authoritarian depending on ruler will change whether it's left or right

So promoting international free trade is centrist?

>Implying I'm a fascist

Internationalist and Individualist, you know, the winning side?

Move to California

Wasn't that just a method to erradicate communists from Germany?

Well, the concepts of right and left are pretty retarded anyway.

Though it's funny seeing collectivists trying to deny that the nazis were socialists. They didn't go full autismo like in Cambodia but they constrained the structure of production their way. I recommend books like The Vampire Economy, or the Wages of Destruction (centered on the war years) to get an idea of their actual policies.

Well, they kinda were. Having guns and hating other races doesn't make them not left. They did have leftist ideals, just not really giving a shit about applying those to other races.

It's like how Democrats and Republicans shifted after the Civil War. Republicans used to be the "liberal" ones who wanted to set slaves free and Democrats wanted to keep the right to have slaves.

Because in modern time shit has become distorted.
Modern right: religious nuts who hate everyone and are nationalistic
Modern left: authoritarian as ya can see with the SJW types popping up.

Ideal right: Freedom and liberty for each person. Equality of opportunity, not outcome. Welfare systems based on people willingly wanting to help one another rather than by force.

Ideal left: Much like the above, except they want a larger government in order to help all people prosper because you should be obligated to help your fellow countrymen/humanity to make a better world for all.

But we're humanity, buddy. And I guess when we come up with good ideas we just find a way to fuck shit up. We turn memento mori into fucking yolo and do the exact opposite of what wisdom told us. It's like each time we come up with great ideas someone comes along and says "what kinda world you wanna live in senpai?" and we just go "just fuck our shit up."

Because fascism operates by co-opting leftist symbols to gain popular support.

Hitler literally says admits this.

There is red on American flag and Republican

It was a protection racket for the rich.
Numerous important fascists and nazis were freemasons(freemasonry was little more than rich boy's club in interwar Europe but one of the most important benefits of being part of some particular lodge were people you met there), big industry concerns like Fiat or Krupp generally sided with them and they've got enormous amount of government contracts out of sudden.

>Ideal (murrican) right
Freedom and liberty for each person. Minimal gubment oppression. Freedom for individuals to oppress other individuals because of rights.

>Ideal left
Freedom and liberty for each person. Gubment regulating individuals and systems that oppress individuals based on the feefees of society.

>Having guns and hating other races doesn't make them not left
Helping industrial giants to suppress labour unions and privatising state property left and right makes them "not left"

Git educated autismo
See hitler's rise to power. It was all made using LEFTISTS tools. He successfully eradicated democracy in a democratic way. You're too fucking dumb to get into politics ffs

That's literally what collectivism is you retard

So mad.

National socialism is only socialist in name, not in ideals. The socialist principles were abandoned and actual socialists were purged in the night of the long knives.

>big gubberment vs small gubberment meme

>quoting ayn rand

That is literally what collectivism is though

I dislike Rand as much as the next person but 10/10 argument there.

I think what people mean by that is, look what's happening in Europe today, far right and right political parties are popping up in various countries and are gaining significant support compared to 40 years ago.

The reason for this I believe is that the left tries to push their vile agendas, but they push for these policies, laws, culture changes too much and as we know every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

That reaction is societies recoil from leftism as they look for an alternative to fix all that has been shattered by the left. The right begins to become mainstream and the poles switch if you will, give it 15 years, we'll be living in a right world no longer a left one.

like trying to bang together 2 positive facing magnets.

just need some form of perpetual energy to create the positive contraction and boom infinite chaos