Why don't we have real leaders nowadays? Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar... All of them strong governors. What do we have now? Obama, Elizabeth II, Benjamin Netanyahu...?
Is it possible to create a politician and surround him with that greatness?
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I think it's more a reflection on you
most kings get their heads chopped off
>Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar...
statist
>Obama, Elizabeth II, Benjamin Netanyahu...?
politicians
politicians only care about shaking hands and doing business
>why do things change, Veeky Forums?
What is the point of this thread?
>Politicians
>leader
politicians are like senators during the emire, they don't control shit
>implying that Benjamin Netanyahu isn't absolutely brilliant
>no mention of napoleon
I WANT TO GO BACK NOW!!!
Fragilista, there's little use for great man theories today. The world has become so complex that the only right policy is decentralization and the formation of teams. See what complexity scientist Yaneer Bar Yam has to say about this.
B-but he was french...
So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it
personalities like that rise out of a time of war or triumph for their respective nations.
like in modern times we certainly have our FDR, Churchill, and Stalin as leaders during the most pivotal point in recent history, and our Eisenhower, Montgomery, and Zhukov as the great military leaders.
I'd say just wait for the next Great War, or an event where truly heroic acts are made by leaders.
>or an event where truly heroic acts are made by leaders.
Or in other words we can elevate a man to legend for propaganda/national pride purposes
TRUMP
>the no great men theory
They're great men standing on the shoulders of everyone else
Where would alexander be without his inherited army?
if he didn't have his inherited army he wouldn't be alexander
>They're great men standing on the shoulders of everyone else
where's the shame in that
it contradicts great man theory
alexander was but another domino
i don't believe in the great men theory i was just mocking you for appearing to believe that there are no great men
you're gay
no u
For you.
Stop it you are making me blush.
How can you when we have democracy? They get 8 years max and then they're gone.
There's plenty of dictators but they are of weaker nations, and if they try to get more powerful they are immediately curb stomped.
Well, the world has had great leaders as recently as the 60s. Beyond that I can't think of anyone who I'd call a statesman
;)
Schopenhauer, please.
One compliments another, most people would've lost the war against the Persians, but Alexander pulled through, it was luck that a smart person ended up leading the Macedonian troops, but it was Alexander's personal ingenuity that allowed him to unite the Greeks against Persians and win.
We have something called "democracy". When it's necessary, or there are personal interests, democracy is just a word.
Also, I still waiting for a positive dictator, who want the best for the citizens, but without letting them take the power (let's be honest, most citizens don't know to decide properly, a lot of them shouldn't even vote).
Benji is based
>leaders
What are you?
I don't think any of those leaders fought on the front lines during their time in power.
>3 people in 3000 years
>we just need to find the right dictators!
I don't think Alexander would have lasted long charging at a machine gun while dodging artillery shells, and I rather doubt Genghis and Julius were on the front lines in any meaningful sense.
talented people can use their talents nowadays instead of herding the retards full-time
I think if Putin stays on his trajectory he'll make the history books as the guy who put Russia back on its feet.
That was the point.
Democracy. We deliberately shackle the power of our leaders so they don't fuck shit up too much, for better or for worse.
Write a list of all the great leaders you know. Then consider that every single nation has had a leader of some kind of literally thousands of years, and see just how rare "great leaders" really are.
lol
>Why don't we have real leaders nowadays?
A competent leader is simply better at fucking his citizens over, OP.
I'd rather have corrupt and incompetent than corrupt and competent.
And you'd rather too, OP.
what about Erdogan?
Elizabeth Warren please go back to your reservation
>Economy going down the shitter
>laughable navy and army
>manlet posturing on steroids
I am waiting for another great man too.
The right dictator finds the country, not the other way around.
But really OP i think these days the ambitious motivated and intelligent men just end up becoming multibillionares rather than conquerors.
Turkroach pls
We had a GOAT who just died desu.
99% of history didn't have "real" leaders like them. Mediocrity is the norm.
>grabbed crimea while the west shat their pants and did nothing
>strengthening ties with China, Iran and even Turkey
>intervened in Syria
>m-muh manlet
becuase in an age of nuclear weapons and cyber warfare.
if we elected a real lead. Their greatness would probably mean a large chunk of earths downfall.
Alexander, Gengis, Julius were all generals and led armys in battle and fought along side their troops.
remember when michael moore was trying to get US senators to sign their sons up for the military?
Putin was the only bloke in the lot who had legit KGB experience.
Has any of our leaders today ever seen war up close and personal?
Have they ever pulled the trigger and ended an enemy combatants life?
>I think if Putin stays on his trajectory he'll make the history books as the guy who put Russia back on its feet.
People like Putin and Erdogan always come to power during a country's nadir and gain credit for the inevitable upswing. When they have power for too long they just end up going full retard as you can currently see.
Putin definitely helped its recovery but Erdogan got in power when the situation was pretty stable, and now it's not.
john howard seemed genuinely involved and in alignment to preferable australian cultural imperatives and class strata.
and so did tony abbot
and kevin rudd (labour)
and even the bird was alright
dunno much about malcolm turnbull (liberal), seems to be fair dinkum (ish, enough?)
obama seemed to genuinely do and showed as much as his elective office can do/reach.
is farage pm yet??
putins good fun because he tells the truth, was ex secret military intelligence, and is russian.basedbadassary
uraguay Jose Mujica didnt just decrim but full legalised pot and is an eternal godtier for it likewise.
>>grabbed crimea while the west shat their pants and did nothing
While driving the rest of Ukraine straight into the arms of the West and effectively ending any chance of a Russian Bloc in Europe.
>>strengthening ties with China, Iran and even Turkey
He hasn't really strengthened ties with China beyond a few UN decisions that are in their mutual interest. The "BRICS" thing is a meme, and the SCO is little more than a Chinese NATO, where Putin's posturing would be about as welcome as Erdogan's is in NATO.
Iran will take any friends they can get, and Turkey is only making up with Russia because Erdogan in his supreme wisdom believes the west to be responsible for the coup, or at least is pretending as such to fulfill a few more policy goals. Hardly a master of diplomacy.
>>intervened in Syria
The Russian intervention in Syria leaves a lot to be desired, though as a propaganda victory it is indeed huge.
>Russian Bloc in Europe.
>shit that was never going to happen
>until they roll over with tanks & take the missile system infrastructure for themselves
>scorched earth won't save you now
>mfw
>>>intervened in Syria
start the christian crusades again lets see if we can make it to babylon...
>He hasn't really strengthened ties with China
and in 100 years when we look back at this post ull realise the fool
>when u realise nato missile shields cant stop russian apocolypse
>While driving the rest of Ukraine straight into the arms of the West and effectively ending any chance of a Russian Bloc in Europe.
Ukraine was already being driven into the West by its people, but he salvaged the situation like a true maestro.
>Iran
An incredibly useful and a powerful power broker in the Middle East, now that their main rival has been smashed into dust.
>Turkey
You're forgetting that Turkey has a lot of NATO bases there, as well as is being treated as a refugee prison bloc by the EU. If Erdogan in his paranoia decides to exit NATO and break the deal with EU, NATO's position will be weakened and the EU will break into pieces because of the refugees
>Syria
As you said, a propaganda victory as well as entrenching Assad so much that nothing short of a western invasion will dislodge him
...
>Putin definitely helped its recovery but Erdogan got in power when the situation was pretty stable
Not really, the war with the PKK was in full swing as well as this just happening
en.wikipedia.org
>because Erdogan in his supreme wisdom believes the west to be responsible for the coup
nations spooked by west this month: turkey, china
>and Turkey is only making up with Russia because Putin has the power to bankrupt or sustain Turkey's economy by allowing/banning russian tourists to go there
ftfy
>You lived to see the day when all of Europe was a member of a single mutual defensive alliance
Nobody would have believed this shit at the dawn of the 20th century.
>When you realize that when the Russian's let their missiles fly, so will every other country.
>That feeling when one asshole will use a nuclear warhead, and then every country with one will use their's.
>We're going to party like it's 1999, then be evaporated in nuclear fire.
Good times ahead, everybody!
MAD, friend
the only reason turkey through to crusader states arent part of europe is because they are muslim
Our society has automated itself. The human soul is now irrelevant.
When a General accomplishes something incredible, the media ignores them, many people can't even name a single active general.
There is no Napoleon, there is no one we would look to and say "If the Government goes up in flames, this man is going to be our leader." because that is a threat to federalized authority.
Look at all the terrible reasons Obama has given for sacking Generals. It's unbearable.
But this policy does not work forever, once mindless drones are placed in military leadership positions, a competent man will take the entire Corps by storm. A Napoleon will arise.
Our dreams have been shattered.
There isn't a perfect wife for you to find and stow away to somewhere thousands of miles away to live a fairy tale life.
There is no military that fights for its country, and there are no comrades to fight with as brothers.
There is no career - you do not get a degree and go on to incredible things, you sit in an office and hope you can pay back the interest on that now worthless peace of paper.
Our ancestors have been consumerized to the point that they have left us nothing. We must start from the dirt on the ground and see if we can build our skyscrapers, our pyramids, our legacies.
Our religion has been neutered, and it does not care about the people, and it does not care about its own teachings. It cares merely about self preservation in a hedonistic-secular society that the Church capitulated to.
All the major battles in this war were fought before we were born. It was over before we had a chance to fight back.
But it is not over.
We can still fight, we can still revolt against the international system which uses both Capitalism and Marxism to put the power in the hands of a small international clique.
Die a hero.
It is the greatest thing we can do for our society.
Do not coward.
Do not surrender.
Do not capitulate.
Fight. A leader will arise and save us.
>how did it come to this change
>not Veeky Forums
I don't hold it to be a good thread either, but it's not like it's not a proper question.
Not even a proper english sentence.
Niggers.
no it's because turkey is asia minor
>hurdurr war war war.
Most of governance is administrative shit, nigger.
The reason noone cares about military achievments is that they have become irrelevant. The military does not fight to protect anything but the interests of the national economy. There are no enemies to fight, there are no lands to expand into, only economic subjugation of resource rich countries.
The risks and rewards are mostly calculable, situations or unrest are manageable. This is the modern world and it's not going away.
We have Putin, Erdogan, Kim Jong-un
>Kim Jong-un
Just another neckbeard daddy-boy. The only difference is that he inherited his father toybox.
Democracy levels everything.
aren't we supposed to be discussing Veeky Forums here?
>For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere.
Why not just have a thread about best leaders of history or something?
Well we have me. For starters.
Now i haven't taken over Europe just yet but don't you worry i'm working on it
MUH GREAT MEN OF HISTORY
ME NEED BIG STRONG CHIEF TO LEAD ME! ME NOT CAPABLE OF OWN RATIONAL ACTIONS! OOGA-CHAKA-OOGA-OOGA-OOGA-CHAKA
>you lived to see the day 90% of europe became one country
would the kings from the 14th century believe this?
What's your path?
As for mine:
>Get B.S. in Economics at business school
>Get into t14 law school
>Work for at least a decade as an attorney, hopefully work on some high profile case to get in the public eye
>Run for something small like mayor
>Eventually build up to Senate/Governor
>If I've gotten this far, go for some cute cabinet position
Genghis Khan inherited nothing.