German Engineering

How are VAG products so incredibly based?

>electrics that never work
>V8's require $5000-$10000 timing chain service
>slow as fuck and look shit
>literally everything is an optional extra
>AWD system fucks up and big money to fix

Why would anyone buy an Audi when you can just get a BMW and avoid all the problems?

Other urls found in this thread:

excelsior.com.mx/
swiftune.com/page/10/competition-engines-formula-junior.aspx
conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=13773&i=2#menu
rodauthority.com/features/offenhauser-the-greatest-racing-engine-ever-built/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>My automotive knowledge is just the culmination of shitposts I've read on Veeky Forums

>why would anyone buy a german car when you can just get a japanese and avoid all the problems?
Fixed

Are you that retarded that you think the timing chain is a service item? Opinion discarded and saged.

>BMW, avoid problems. Pick one

Even Japanese and domestic cars are becoming very over-complicated, I was working at an Infiniti dealer earlier this year. The new 400hp 3.0TT Q50s has nearly 40 different sensors for just the engine and transmission alone, for things even like air filter pressures..

People who enjoyed their reliable G35, G37 etc will be in for a huge shock if they think the newer Infiniti's will be the same as far as servicing costs etc.

It is when you change your oil at meme intervals and the """"""""""""german engineered""""""""" plastic timing guides fail and your timing chain turns into a stretchy noodle because you fell for the meme

Nissan has always been the shittiest of the big 3 jap manufacturers since the early 2000s. Wanna know why? Because Renault.

Unfortunately this is true, I have this at my work at the moment.

This is now a thread to bitch about retarded designs.

>First All American DOHC V6 (GM's LQ1)
>base it on easy as fuck to work on 2.8L pushrod V6
>Huge as fuck DOHC heads that block everything
>While an alternator swap take 15 minutes on the pushrod sibling engines, the DOHC version takes 8 hours because they decided the perfect spot for it was on the bottom of the engine in the back against the firewall requiring the engine to be dropped 2 inches just to access it.

Infiniti tech here.

The new Q50 looks like a fucking nightmare. Maybe it won't be, but it looks like it will be.

But hey everything looks good paper right? It'll move the units which is what NNA cares about, and it'll be trash at 100k.

This shit right here. The Federal police in Mexico are replacing their 2013 Dodge Chargers in 2017 and are looking into replacement pursuit vehicles right now. They were planning on replacing them with turbo V6 Q50 since Nissan is trusted here and they were offered a good fleet price, but after testing they determined they were so overly complicated and undependable that they'd loose upwards of $130 million USD just in maintenance of a fleet of 3,000 over 4 years, about 140% the acquisition cost. Instead they're likely going with the Ford Taurus or the BMW 3 serie. Let that settle in. A Nissan was determined to be less cost effective to run than a BMW.

Source for info. Not calling you a lier but god dam that's a juicy spoof or troll.

>bmw
>not even mitsubishi
>not suzuki
>not mazda

I didn't save the article, but if you read spanish check the Mexican news website Excelsior. excelsior.com.mx/ It was a recent story so it should be on the first few pages.

Idk about you but as a jap guy even I think bmws are easy to work on. Sure the electronics can be over bearing, but most come with longitudinal I4's or I6's so everything in the engine bay is fairly easily accesible, even small engine compartments.

This. Audi has their components scattered all over in awkward positions cramped up against walls, and Mercedes primarily have very wide V engines that are hard to work on or I4s with affixed plastic cladding. I don't understand the rage behind working on BMWs to be honest. Apart from their V8/V12 models and one specific I4 diesel, the layouts are pretty simple.

...

It's amazing how simple LS-based engines are

Might want to check what Audi intervals actually are friend. Also, everyone uses plastic guides, they are even plastic on ls engines *gasps internally*. Why start threads about stuff you don't understand?

I blame safety and environmental regulations for this.

missing pushrods and rocker arms why???

My condolences. I've had to work on those buckets of shit before, what a fuck around.

>FWD V6
For what purpose?

Carlos Ghosn turned a based jap company with great sports cars and really good economy/offroad cars into a moneymaking nip shill. He brought them financial success while ruining their basedness.

It's the same with the rest of the French auto industry. Peugeot and Citroen used to be like Mercedes, toyota, and fiat combined with very few downsides. Bugatti was the best sporting marque in the 1910's - 1930's. But the French ruined their own cars.

BMW's are perfect if you maintain them well. They aren't cheap or easy to maintain, but if you do it right they don't actually let you down.

Source: owner of abused 22 yrd old 3 series that ran like a dream when it was serviced and had some replacement parts.

If you look in the engine bay of e36 and e46 BMW's, they're not actually that different from toyota's of the time, just neater and with more covers over the electronics and shit.

Doing a timing belt on it, and even parts are hard to come by. Nobody make a complete kit, all parts are ordered separately. And find me another car with a Miller cycle engine.

The engine has an interesting development history. It was originally designed to be used in 3 different platforms, one of them RWD. 2 of those platform projects were canceled. And the engine was neutered when put into production so automatic transmissions would actually survive. Preproduction versions of the engine made 280 HP, and outran Camaro's and Mustang's, even with FWD. It was detuned to 200-215 HP in production.
And the 3 car platforms it was supposed to go into?
GM80 project (pic related): The FWD Camaro/Firebird project. Development was abandoned some time around 1987.
Pontiac Fiero: that V6 was to be the performance option for the second generation Fiero. The Fiero was canned when V6 mules with the engines were destroying Corvettes around GM's own test track. Project killed in 1988.
GM10 project: eventually released as the first generation W-body cars in 1988, but the engine didn't debut until 1991. The engine ran until 1997 before being replaced with the slower N/A 3800 V6, which was a million times easier to work on, but slower, worse sounding, and less advanced.

Any source on that Fiero beating Vette story? I've always heard that GM killed a bunch of cars, only to favor the older Corvette.

Sounds like Bob Lutz's work

Only sources were the Fiero engineers who worked on the car. GM brought out one of the V6 mules with the engine for the Fiero's 30th anniversary along with a bunch of other special Fiero concepts. That's where this pic of the 1990 second gen Fiero was taken. Search youtube, there's a video of it.

Surprisingly ugly

and the prototype engine in the second gen prototype.

top right

>ITT people trying to spread the meme that any german car is easy to work on in any fashion
I really wish this would stop

This is hilarious because I recently bought 2 Oldsmobile cutlass' off a family friend for 400$ total. Both of them needed an altornator and both of them have the 3.4l but they had 88k and 112k so they were worth doing. Did one already by taking out the strut and axle. And I'm doing the other one the same way

>bimmers
>reliable

its funny when someone says why buy an overpriced turd when you can buy an overpriced turd and avoid the smell

and anyone who fights the complexity is just a Luddite I guess

when you think of it as being two push ohv inline 4 smooshed together it makes more sense

I do like how the alternator and water pump are mounted
hard to imagine how its got to the point that something so obvious is taken for granted

I hear the only downside of pushrods over dohc is smoothness (other than perhaps efficiency but that's debatable) Anyone who knows their stuff wanna chime in?

push rod flex in some of the older types and the way that effects rocker ratio it makes the cams and followers a little less aggressive
its not like high revving push rod engines don't exist it just has other limits

some of the old 1000 cc ish A series engines
swiftune.com/page/10/competition-engines-formula-junior.aspx
conceptcarz.com/vehicle/default.aspx?carID=13773&i=2#menu

here is a dohc engine I like for not having head gaskets
rodauthority.com/features/offenhauser-the-greatest-racing-engine-ever-built/

I general I think people vastly understate the importance of power delivery and power band
the power has to be where its useful or you are wasting your time

>LS-based
nigga, that's a SBC
1956 was the 1st one

...

except for every tiny thing being optional, audi, vw and also merc and bmw act like it.

Mechanical inefficiency means they're bad for fuel economy, and most motor vehicle applications across the world have fuel efficiency as their ultimate goal.

but that's great in my opinion. I don't need most of the shit forced into new cars.

Yeah, but it's also more expensive than e.g. japanese stuff. Of course the Mitsubishi or Nissan stuff is not as nice as the VAG stuff. It's up to everbody's individual taste in the end I guess.

>VAG products
> based

Pick one.

>The new 400hp 3.0TT Q50s has nearly 40 different sensors for just the engine and transmission alone

I don't know that much about the inner workings of engined beyond service items, but why the hell does it need all that? Is it really necessary?

My ancient E46 328i is approaching 200k and has given virtually no issues in 5 years of ownership and still runs perfectly, and it doesn't have 40 sensors.

What is the reasoning?

millenia S? You can get a kit for the KJ-ZEM but you have to get the waterpump and hyd tensioner separate. it's pretty common. I just did a timing belt, waterpump and cam seals on one a few months ago. first one ive seen since they were near new

>muh emissions
this is a car board, not your women's group.

I blame expecting more than 100hp/L and good gas mileage

Did you miss the fact that the rest of his post was making fun of VAG products?

Route your exhaust into your coupe m8

>electrics that never work
>V8's require $5000-$10000 timing chain service

>literally everything is an optional extra
>AWD system fucks up and big money to fix

This shit describes Italian engines

nice b8 m8

That's the car. None of our pars suppliers, not even WorldPac, had a kit. We had to get allege parts separately.