Why are mainstream historians afraid of admitting the truth about the battle of dunkirk, that it was an abject failure of the allied leadership and a decisive axis powers victory in each and every conceivable aspect? Hitler let the british escape on purpose so he could make peace with britain but churchill wouldn't have it
For example on wikipedia in *literally* every WW2 battle article you have a paragraph clearly stating the outcome of the engagement the artice is dealing with, but with this one they removed the "decisive german victory" (which is 100% true btw) and just censored/replaced it with "territorial changes: succesfull allied evacuation".
Like, if someone beats the shit out of you and you narrowly manage to run away and escape at the end, did you "successfully evacuate" from the fight, meaning you won the entire engagement? What kind of ""logic"" is this?
Even outside wikipedia allied historians are afraid of admitting the truth and euphemistically refer to it as a "successful evcation" or "victory in defeat". What the fuck?
What would Orwell say about this? This is beyond delusional, have the victor nations of WW2 forgotten what impartial history scholarship means?
William Parker
> Hitler let the british escape on purpose so he could make peace with britain but churchill wouldn't have it
You're an imbecile. Hitler followed the advice of his field commanders like Rundstedt and Kleist on purely military grounds.
> For example on wikipedia in *literally* every WW2 battle article you have a paragraph clearly stating the outcome of the engagement the artice is dealing with, but with this one they removed the "decisive german victory" (which is 100% true btw) and just censored/replaced it with "territorial changes: succesfull allied evacuation".
And this is different from other successful withdrawals how exactly? Dynamo's purpose was to get the army out. They did this. Germany didn't want Dunkirk because the beach was nice, it's only importance was the Allies pocket there. You'll note that for the overall listing for the Battle of France, you do get a decisive German victory.
>Even outside wikipedia allied historians are afraid of admitting the truth and euphemistically refer to it as a "successful evcation" or "victory in defeat". What the fuck?
You do realize you can have successful operations in the context of a larger strategic defeat, yes? That's like saying that Gazala was a British win, because they won the North African campaign, or that Operation Mars was a successful offensive, because Uranus broke the German lines at the same time.
Jackson Hall
>Hitler let the british escape on purpose so he could make peace with britain but churchill wouldn't have it Wouldn't it have made it a bit easier for Germany to force a peace with Britain if they had captured the BEF at Dunkirk?
Samuel Ortiz
Noone has ever said that Dunkirk was a massive, grand victory. The ENTIRE point of it is a heroic rescue attempt by dozens of tiny ships to snatch as many men out of the jaws of death as possible, while a huge battle rages around them.
Jeremiah Walker
>it's another 'france did all the work at dunkirk' thread
Colton Hernandez
Now now, let's not let logic and actual strategy come into a subtle Nazi blow job thread.
Hudson Sullivan
In theory, yes. In reality, unsure. The whole reason for the halt order was to save tanks and manpower for Case Red while the Luftwaffe dealt with the boats (rather successfully as well, more casualties happened in the Channel than on land). The German leadership thought that had they knocked out France, Britain would come to the table for a peace with honor which really wasn't a bad plan by itself. Churchill had other ideas.
Easton Gomez
>OP raises legitimate questions and criticism towards one aspect of how we historically treat a famous event >"lol nazi blowjob thread Seriously kys. Reddit is that way >>>
Cooper Campbell
Hitler didn't let the Brits escape. Germans attacked with the entire Luftwaffe and several armies. Please stop posting.
Andrew Watson
Are you seriously trying to claim that adding in "Hitler let the BEF escape because he wanted peace, but Churchill wouldn't listen", the well known Nazi roleplayer talking point here, isn't indicative of Nazi cock sucking?
>kys
Have you done all your homework? School starts again soon.
Juan Phillips
>Why are mainstream historians afraid of admitting the truth about the battle of dunkirk
are they though? pretty much everyone says it was a fucking miracle the entire BEF didn't get massacred or captured en mass
>but one wiki article didn't say allies BTFO why is history so cucked
Nolan Smith
>"mein Fuhrer, Army groups A and B are now in position, we are waiting on the go ahead now prepared to crush the Dunkirk salient and destroy the BEF" >Goering wakes up from his food coma, wobbles to his feet sweating heavily >"NEIN MUH LUFTWAFFE WILL BTFO DEM FUCK OFF REEEEEE OMG FUHRER PLS GIBE JOB TO MEEEEEEE" >farts disgustingly from the exertion of getting up out his chair, sways and sweats even heavier >wont stop screeching until Hitler gives the job to him >BEF escapes
Caleb Howard
It was the right decision given the circumstances. France hadn't capitulated and Germany had to preserve its forces for France's potential final stand.
David Hill
>Hitler let the british escape on purpose so he could make peace with britain
Luke Edwards
>The German leadership thought that had they knocked out France, Britain would come to the table for a peace with honor which really wasn't a bad plan by itself. Churchill had other ideas
Doesn't seem like much more than a plan based upon German hubris. Britain was a lot more than just a small offshore island, it was a vast empire, strategically all but untouchable to Germany. In August 1940, just three months after Dunkirk and during the Battle of Britain, the British shipped half their tanks and armour to Egypt to protect British oil Interests. British oil reserves in the UK rarely dropped below 7 million tons and in 1942 during the Battle of the Atlantic it still imported 10.2 million tons. 5 times that received by Germany, which in January 1941 barely held 2 million tons. Whatever the size of the land based forces the British navy was able to secure access to materials across the world and call upon the military forces from the Commonwealth. Why would it seek a 'peace with honor' with Germany in May 1940. A peace on terms laid down by a Germany.
William Perry
France did all the work at Dunkirk and held off the Germans for the British to escape
Austin Gray
>A peace on terms laid down by a Germany Peace with honor meaning white peace. Britain keeps their empire and such. I mean, with Poland and France knocked out, Britain staying in the war by themselves seems like a far off folly, especially since they left an armies worth of equipment in Dunkirk. No one would have blamed Britain for making a white peace for themselves against Germany.
Grayson Cox
I don't know what school you went to, but nobody says Dunkirk was an allied victory.
Jace White
>. Britain keeps their empire and such Britain had it's Empire and all that entailed, so they weren't 'in the war by themselves'. Germany was in no position to have a say in the matter.
Luis Martinez
This
Now fuck off OP, Remember Dunkirk!
Brayden Clark
>hey Britain, we will let you keep your empire that you already have >also we promise not to invade you even though we have no navy or amphibious landing experience/doctrine >so you better make peace with us or else
Jose White
i dont get why the allies dont celebrate göring much he really helped the war effort many times
Leo Rivera
and the majority of the french in the pocket as well, 100k french were evacuated 40-60k were killed, wounded or captured
Jason Hughes
To be fair, Göring wasn't that categorically different from a lot of other air commanders of the war. You had massive overestimation of the capacity of air power acting alone; in large part because the various air forces were also trying to win an internal war as getting recognized as an independent branch of service.
Really, the statement that the Luftwaffe can prevent the evacutation out of Dunkirk isn't any more stupid than Harris's notion that half a million tons of bombs would completely destroy the German will to fight, or Chennault's idea that 500 escorted heavy bombers could evict the entire IJA from China without need of a ground offensive.
Evan Hughes
Luftwaffe should by all rights have been able to destroy the evacuation fleet. Germans just fucked up the execution because they had no torpedo bombers and neither skill nor doctrine of naval air war.
David Nelson
That's what happens when you are primarily a land based military force fighting against the most skilled and powerful naval force in the world.
