DCT vs MT

Any of you faggots out there switch to an automated dual-clutch w/ paddle shifters setup after years of driving manual and not hating yourself? Seems like a decent compromise for people who have to deal with shitty commutes...

Anyways, I'm considering going this route for my next car. Discuss.
>inb4 lol just deal with shifting pussyboy

Other urls found in this thread:

ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1746140-8l90e-into-4th-gen.html
media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/may/0511-10speed-gm.html
m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=CZqAckA0wMg
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

no one cares

#BlackLivesMatter
Start caring, user.

Porsche's PDK is gangster as fuck. But let's be real... No one here can afford that shit.

FULL SEQUENTIAL MANUAL

have a (you)

you flustered bruh

>not sequential with clutch pedal

BUT MAH SKIDS

I've realised latelly that its not shifting a gear stick that makes me love manual. otherwise i would just get a dct.

Its heel and toeing, its taking off really smoothly, its nailing a quick shift from 2nd to 3rd at the redline after working the engine so hard to get that power.

all of that involves a clutch.

>Joking about black lies matter
Fuck you, I just lost a friend to them. It is just an excuse to destroy shit, kill, and loot.

Black killed by black
>Sheeeeeit pussy nigga shoulda been strapped

Black killed by cop
>He a gud boi, dindu nuffins, goin to church, aspiring rapper and ate his broccoli.
>Peaceful protests result in conflagration of several cities and 9001 deaths

I just got rid of my STi for an S4. (S4 is DCT)

I love it, it's pretty silly fun in a different kind of way.

However, I do have a longing for a second car now. Maybe in a year or two I will get a C6 Z06 or a Boxster.

>this sensitive

My friend has an S4 with DCT. Makes a subtle *braaap* noise on hard upshifts. Kinda cool.

Not even close to being the same "feel"
My friend has a ralliart with the double clutch and it's just useless. There's no forgiveness on the downshift, it will not shift on demand except if your at the correct rpm +/- 1 and trying to power out is worse. Even if you think you'll still go full manual mode you won't. You'll get lazy during normal driving and let it shift by itself in the 10 ms it takes but all the processing power in the world cannot know what a turn is going to be like or what speed and rpm to be at. Same for the cvt's which have the 6 spots or ranges preset.*
*except like the user said the PDK is pretty good

> Its like driving a bad habit
tough to break(it's programming) and even if you do manage it there's really no satisfaction in it and you'll want to get back into your old ways

>Its like driving a bad habit
Yeah. I drove manual for a decade, then switched to an auto (IS350). For the first week or so, I kept "ghost-clutching" when coming to a stop. It's been some months now and I'm still finding that I'm hesitant to just let off the brake after putting it into park and starting the shut-down process. I'm so programmed to think that there's an extra step I need to do.

Do you think that has anything to do with it being a Mitsubishi Lancer?

the hell

DCT is literally the worst of both worlds. Get an auto if you hate fun, get a manual if you enjoy life. There's no other option

just deal with shifting pussyboy. or get a better commute.

>white """"men""""

FACT a aftermarket tuned auto shits on a factory stock manual

>shitstickdickshift fags will deny this
>m-muh control
just get a manumatic that bangs though the gears like a rallycar its fucking fun
>muh clutch
nope dry clutch a shit and slippage
>muh feels
ok you got me there i miss the feelings of manual cars but hay modern autos are pretty good hell even the 4speeds from ages ago like the 4l60 are pretty good and put up with alot more abuse then a manual can even today.

>muh bla bla bla
at the end of the day the manuals died because they simply are inferior in every way.

Would you still be driving around a straight cut gear car from the 20's because of muh feels? No no you wouldnt.

Ill miss manuals all the same but auto is perfectly fine and has much better aftermarket and modding then just swapping in a short shifter and memeclutch packs

Get in a auto with a high psi tune and tell me its not fun as fuck

A full sequential manual still has a clutch pedal, you just don't need it on a dogbox when shifting up or down. You only need it for accelerating from a standstill. Even F1 cars still have a manual clutch - although it's a pushbutton instead of a pedal.

>aftermarket tuned
Enjoy your voided warranty, especially on DCT's.

>just get a manumatic that bangs though the gears like a rallycar its fucking fun
It's fun, although a manual can be more fun sometimes.

>slippage
You shouldn't be using slippage as an argument for autoboxes, because it's a lot more on those - and they have a lot more driveline losses.

>modern autos are pretty good
Agreed. Most are, some are even exceptionally good.

>even the 4speeds from ages ago like the 4l60 are pretty good
Might've agreed with you if you had said 4L80. The 60 can't hold power as well. Also, old four speed autos are pretty shit compared to the newest stuff that's on the market, and they are really limited in gearing spread compared to the 5 and 6 speed manuals we're used to nowadays.

>put up with alot more abuse then a manual can even today.
A built 2 or 3 speed auto on a dragstrip? Sure, that'll take more abuse. However, as long as you don't intentionally abuse the clutch, manual can be just as sturdy.

>the manuals died
The manual is not dead yet.

>auto is perfectly fine and has much better aftermarket and modding
More aftermarket? Maybe.
Easier to work on? Hell no. Sure, software changes are easier nowadays, but you try doing internal work on an automatic.

>Manual
It's the baseline. The enthousiasts' favorite. Not ideal in heavy commutes, although rewarding (not faster) in spirited driving. Technologically the simplest.

>DCT
Great for when you combine the occasional trackday with weekend touring. Not great for daily driving, that's what modern torque converter auto's are for. Cannot take as much power as TC auto's (hence Audi using the 8HP for the RS6).

>modern TC auto (e.g.: ZF 8HP, 8L90)
Simply great. 90% of the fast shifts of a DCT, but with 10% of the harshness during daily use. Also, a lot cheaper in upkeep.

>old TC auto
Indestructible, old, boring unless you're at a dragstrip.

>CVT
The devils work.

PFFT

ill never be that rich i just got my bog stock 4l60e retuned.

handles 400hp+ easily
>muh 8 speed zf geared even higher than the goddamn 4 5 and 6 speeds
nah mate modern gear ratio's fucking suck honestly.

most of the time manuals 'feel' quicker because of the gear ratios and thats it

Manual is dead

either its in ecoboxes or practically nothing in the high end or even midrange these days.

only trans i cant fucking stand is CVT and hybrids they feel horrid

>internal work
>automatic
NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

apart from that yeah pretty much

Something like this swapped into a older ls would be fun as fuck with different gearing

have 1-7 as hoongears close together and 8 for overdrive/cruising

why do oem's put shit gearing into boxes? WHY? even put a low ratio diff in it for muh econ its fucking retarded

if i had money i'd get a 8 speed rebuild with better gearing

fuck link: ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1746140-8l90e-into-4th-gen.html

might as well make this a trans general

400 is the old 200hp though. Not exactly impressive.

8HP is geared higher, but gear spacing is basically preserved from 1 through 5.

Actually, manufacturers used to give old slushbox auto's a shorter (numerically higher) final drive ratio, in order to improve acceleration from 0-60.

Manual isn't dead. Maybe in your continent (where else would you be driving something with a 4L60?), but in the rest of the world, manual is still alive - and it'll stay that way.

CVT's are indeed stupid. However, drive a newer Volvo T8, and you'll see that a TC auto + a good hybrid system can really be great to drive. Also, XC90's are comfy as fuck. Try a 1st gen Insight for fun - they really are the successor to the CRX, with maybe a bit less speed, but a lot more MPG's, and just as much driver engagement.

>mfw 10 speeds
media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/may/0511-10speed-gm.html

arnt these trans going to be weak as fuck compared to older 4-6 speeds because of packaging or am i mistaken?

surely thats the reason older 2-4 speeds are so popular for high power because they are HUGE overbuilt tanks with physically bigger and stronger parts?

Also these fucking RETARDED ratios even in a 10 speed that isnt even fucking out yet
>4.70 first
>drops straight to 2.99 in 2nd
whats the point?

they are clearly designed for memepg's and if your buying a performance v8 why the fuck would you care about highway milage?

seriously whats next? 12 speeds?

Surely they are going to run into the limits of what physically smaller gears can put up with?

Are they going to be weak? No, they'll be hooked up to big heavy pickups, and of course to the ZL1 (640hp), and probably the GT500 once Ford gets it's shit together. They're anything but weak.

However, 700hp is a lot to most people - it isn't to drag racers. On the other end, there's the tires, which are a lot stickier on a dragstrip, therefore massively incresing driveline stress. That's why you want a massively overbuilt transmission.

Then there's the final thing: modern TC autos work with a lockup torque converter, which is great for MPG, but it places massive stress on the driveline once you launch hard. This stress can reduce grip this is solved by letting the TC slip. Also, this gets the engine in it's powerband from the launch (holding it against a transbrake, then releasing once the three gets green), making for a hard, powerful, but smoothly deployed (think smooth across several milliseconds) amount of power.

Final bit is rotational weight. More gears = more stuff spinning, and in dragracing, where milliseconds count, you only select as much gears as you really need to. My uncle for example, ran Top Fuel motorcycles, and they actually selected a two or a three speed transmission during buildup at each different strip, mainly depending on the layout of the track (slightly uphill, slightly downhill, etc.).

>at the end of the day the manuals died because they simply are inferior in every way
Going by numbers on paper, sure. Most reasonable people will acknowledge that. DCT will never give you that same connection with your car though. It's about feels.

Simply put, manual is dying because $$$. It's such a niche option at this point that many car companies have determined it's not worth it to produce. Dat's bidness, folks.

>Simply put, manual is dying because $$$. It's such a niche option at this point that many car companies have determined it's not worth it to produce. Dat's bidness, folks.
What the fuck? Are you talking about the USA or the world in general? The USA is the only place where I have seen so many automatic cars, everywhere else people seem to prefer manual.

>Technologically the simplest
Other than muh feels, this is another big reason for me driving manual. The simplicity allows for cheaper repairs.

This is my perspective from living in the states. Calm down, sir.

DCT/auto for fast cars, manual for slower. Simple as that.

Why pay the premium for a performance model if you can't access the extra power that you're paying for? If you buy a Z06, 911 GTS, etc... in a manual when there's a good auto/DCT option available, you're a fucking idiot. Just buy the Stingray if you want a manual. You know all of those 0-60 & 1/4 mile times you see? Those were done in perfect conditions and multiple trials to get that low time. The auto/DCT will be far more consistent. Regardless of how good you think you are with a manual, you will only marginally be faster driving a manual than the auto version of the cheaper model.

Love dem upshifts on the S8

m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=CZqAckA0wMg

Forgot to mention that I have both manual and DCT cars. I don't understand the circlejerk about manual transmissions. I'm guessing it's because a lot of you have never driven a car with a good auto or DCT transmission before.

You like that? Eww. Why would anyone want that on an S8? It's supposed to be a quiet luxury car, not a fucking R8. That's so ricey it hurts. This is what happens when nice cars become cheap and accessible to the trashy masses.

DCT is objectively superior to manual in every way.

>a lot cheaper in upkeep.
compared to what, DCT? never heard of anyone having problems with DCT in the first place mainly because it's idiot proof.

This. Why brag about your "4.7-seconds-to-60" car when you likely don't even possess the shifting skill to achieve those official numbers?
>inb4 no but I'm really gud!

>which is better
The one that you like operating better. Literally no one else's opinion matters when you spend your own money.

> Cannot take as much power as TC auto's (hence Audi using the 8HP for the RS6).

LOL, are you implying 8 hp is significant in any way, especially on a car that's around 600 hp?

>actually thinks a DCT is cheaper to maintain

>doesn't actually have empirical evidence

"But bro, it has to be more expensive to maintain! They're newer and on expensive cars!"

>this much denial

there is nothing to maintain you idiot. explain how you would fuck up a DCT , I'll wait.
>muh clutch wear
I've seen original DCT with 500k km and they shifted just fine. Amazing what a clutch can do when women can't fuck them up.

Actually, the 0-60 times are never pushed that hard. Porsche is known to understate theirs, even.

What's the point of going fast if you're not shifting the car yourself? When they have cars that automatically corner for you, I bet you're going to praise those too, for being "faster".

If you want fast, take the train. If you want to drive a car and you have balls, drive standard.

>What's the point of going fast if you're not shifting the car yourself?
How does shifting your own gears make going fast more fun?

>If you want fast, take the train. If you want to drive a car and you have balls, drive standard.

You've got it twisted. The bullet train is a DCT, the steam train is a manual.

>He thinks its hard to shift well enough to meet the listed criteria

Fuck in most shitboxes you can just powershift through every gear and beat the factory figure.

It's launching that most people fuck up.

If something goes wrong on a DCT, it will be more expensive. Get over it.

I'm actually having to make this decision...
>2015-2016 Golf R
>2010-2012 Audi S4

Considering one of these and can't decide on the transmission. I hear the auto-box on both is very good.

The manual in traffic meme is dead. Newer commuters like corollas are easy to creep along.

Shift times are mostly irrelevant outside of drag racing unless you take whole seconds. They won't win you the lap. DCT autos are for benchracing.

Why brag about your car when you can brag about what you can achieve in it?

>guys, i bought the fast one
>i can mash the pedal really hard
>drag stips ftwd

>Newer commuters like corollas are easy to creep along.
Maybe because it's a Corolla... Compact economy cars usually have some of the most forgiving clutches.

>DCT autos are for benchracing
>implying you wouldn't be emotionally crushed if DCT version of your car beat you in a race

>I have no idea how a DCT works: The Confession

>brag about what you can achieve in it
Rowing your own gears is not an achievement. No one cares about your mAd sKiLLz other than fellow autists like yourself.

Compact economy cars are good for city driving who teh fuck would have guessed

The sub-second diffrences in shfit times are nothing compared to human factors

It just doesn't matter which one you use.

manual a best/manual a shit debate became irrelevant when we had more than car-jerking four speed slushboxes. manual a okay, auto a okay, CVTs, a shit.

This desu

>Compact economy cars are good for city driving who teh fuck would have guessed
You're missing the point. user said that the manual in traffic meme is dead, then used a car with a super easy clutch as an example.

8HP is a type number, not a horsepower rating.

I love how simple, efficient, and barebones a manual transmission is. It's like the REAL way to drive a car, the original way. I sold my slapshift automatic car for a manual turbo'd car, because pulling that gear into place, feeling it mechanically click in, with a soft, but quick release of the clutch is so much more satisfying. I've never driven a DCT, but I'd feel like it would feel like a normal automatic, but with harder and very quick shifts.

>They won't win you the lap
Two identical car, one DCT, one manual, with equally good driver, then yes, the DCT could win you the lap.