/nsunsg/ - Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm General

JASHIN VULT

Quiet, inferior being (planarian)

Yes, well, actually.
Where does Uchiha Madara fit on Lawful - Chaotic and Good - Evil.

He's as Chaotic Good as Gilgamesh

Chaotic Neutral I reckon

Chaotic Evil is often falsely taken as Really Very Super Duper Evil, but honestly he fits Chaotic Evil pretty well.

Gilgamesh is based

His goal is to literally free the world from suffering and provide happiness to everyone though.

>top tier waifu

>His goal is to literally free the world from suffering and provide happiness to everyone though.
Bullshit. That was his excuse, but it's clear he simply lived for battle.
He could simply have used his idea to put any people who volunteer into a personal heaven regular Tsukuyomi, but didn't. Imagine a movement, him becoming a prophet of sorts, visiting hospitals full of suffering people, offering a way out. He decided he would take away every single human being's freedom of choice, the chance to improve due to reality kicking you in the ass every now and then, he would INFLICT a pseudo-paradise on you.
To me that is very clear-cut evil.

>pseudoparadise
How the fuck is it more fake than 'reality'? The amount of buddhist imagery and the afterlife literally being called the pure land means knowing you exist in and of itself is being trapped in a LEM. What does one or another make a difference?
>le suffering people prophet
Save 1000 people or save a billion. Which is superior?

...

Is naruto immune to poisons? A lot of fanfics make him immune to poisons because of Kurama but it seems like Kurama only heals him when it wants to or when naruto is emotionally fucked.

Who the fuck is that?

Girugamesh

>the chance to improve due to reality kicking you in the ass every now and then
This is the most retarded shit and I have to explain it every time IT comes up
IT L I T E R A L L Y will create the perfect world for you. If you think you should be improving then you will earn it in that world, if you don't then you will not.
Also, 'improvement' is not an objective thing. It actually means 'getting better at reality'. Whoop dee fucking doo, that means shit-all if your reality isn't the same.

Seriously lethal shit Kurama could possibly get rid of, but we do have an instance of Pinkshit's poison working on him. The ONE time she uses something more than a retard smash, puts her medical knowledge somewhere practical, and it ends up working against the guy who saved her useless ass.

Oh, and there is another, second time in that very same arc, where she uses a nonlethal knockout gas bomb - to take out her own fucking team.

>chinese person talking about lack of freedom of choice

I dunno guys, he may be onto something

We're really coming into our own.

Somebody shoot me.

How new r u?

>Chinese person
That's not me though you git. There is no argument against LEM besides '''reality''' which means literally shit-all since reality itself is perceived. Someone within a perfect LEM doesn't ever actually realize he's in a LEM. Who are you to tell him his reality is fake and yours isn't?

*points gun at you*
*throws gun away after giving false ho[e*

I really detest my new keyboard.

Oh, and I recall Kurama being unable to heal bones properly (during the war, though I'm not sure if that's Kishimoto trying to do pottery or if it's actually a thing) and Karui beating the shit out of him.

Seems to me like Kurama either can't heal everything or picks and chooses what to heal.

>talking about false hope
are you sure you aren't chinkanon?

Holy shit this game actually has a general? I haven't played this in ages. What's the meta look like nowadays? Did the Meme Four end up being good? Is Sarada still good?

This is me, 'chinkanon'. The other guy you replied to is not.

I feel kind of sorry but this is basically just Naruto general, not the game's general. People will still talk about it though I guess.
Is anyone still even online?

People are going to be able to get bort and salad again soon.

Doesn't /a/ usually have a Nardo general though? Why make a NUNS general as a proxy?

>Doesn't /a/ usually have a Nardo general
Are you commonly on /a/ these days
Naruto got punted off /a/ for the longest time anyway.

/a/ is not allowed on naruto, the threads are usually spammed to death.

>IT L I T E R A L L Y will create the perfect world for you.
And we don't know the limits or extent of the technique's ability, those are details we do not have.

Certainly unless you think Lee being a cross-dresser or Ino being shy somehow contributes to Naruto's perfect world, it clearly has massive, massive limitations and imperfections.

It is simply retarded to presume it will work perfectly, and requires too much giving up of control.
Kishi's storytelling and pottery is shit, but there is a reason Zetsu is a giant Venus Fly Trap.

>How the fuck is it more fake than 'reality'?
If reality is fake, truly as meaningless as an illusion and is simply composed of signals to your brain, then suffering, pleasure, winning losing, all that sensory shit you try to escape from loses its weight too. Preferences are arbitrary, if it all was fake anyway - but they are clearly not.

By switching onto this new reality, preferring escape from the power of its pain, you validate it to the degree that you are willing to force billions into an involuntary hallucination. Its powerful and genuine enough that it makes you want to create a giant cradle world free of it.

And if you, as the creator of this new "sub-reality" are yourself subject to to the true one to that massive a degree, and clearly haven't understood it in all its intricacies and haven't understood its true nature enough to undo the pain aspect WITHOUT escape, then you cannot create a sub-reality equal or greater as the true one.

And forcing billions into a lesser state of being is despicably evil.
QED, motherfucker.

On another note I always found it funny that while Obito tries to escape from the world via ridiculous moon-sharingans and enslaving the human race, Kakashi does much the same by reading copious amounts of porn. That's the Uchiha Fucking Shits for ya.

It's still Uchiha Central but that's starting to clear up a bit. Meme Four range from average to trash.
Sakon's decent, Kidomaru's okay, good jutsu & tilt, shit everything else, Jirobo's fat and slow (what else is new) jutsu has good tracking, Tayuya's fighting style is pretty new, I don't know what to make of it but her square projectiles are trash.
I don't have Bort & Salad

>but they are clearly not.
Proof? They are fake. They are pointless. If everyone in the world were simply golems programmed with a reactive routine (a 'personality') that matched their real version perfectly, you would never notice the difference despite their lack of true free will.

>And if you...
Irrelevant. Reality itself is of an infinitely higher order than anything within the system itself. Even being a single order higher would constitute reality.
Furthermore, the concept of reality itself is in Buddhism one of pain. The concept of 'caring' creates the concept of 'loss' and concept of 'want', and those combined create the concept of 'pain'. The solution to this problem is usually 'release', by giving up on EVERYTHING. Yes, that is the end state of Buddhism. You don't care about anything at all, and hence you become detached from the world and reach an enlightenment where you realize that nothing actually matters after all because it's ALL fake and in your head.

>And forcing billions into a lesser state of being is despicably evil.
Define evil. They will be unarguably happy by definition, and a perfect world is completely, inarguably, superior in every way to the imperfect world we live in. You cannot refute this because of how perfect gets defined, and it is individually defined. If you believe that making others happy is evil just because they don't want to be happy then we may as well say education is evil, because most kids don't want to go to school despite it legitimately being for their own good and giving a kid a vaccine is also evil because most kids don't want to take the shot.

>those are details we do not have.
Completely irrelevant, what's relevant for judging Madara being good or evil is the intention and what he believed to be true about his spell just like a character who caused the black death by completing a quest he believed would create a potion to cure all disease is not Evil nor is the action itself Evil.

>Free will
>A thing
>He thinks the universe isn't entirely deterministic
Nigga don't know about Laplace's demon

You are of the strange opinion that reality itself should have worth. Why should it have worth? You say you 'force' people into this world, but they will never know once the jutsu activates.
You say 'challenge' has worth, but why does it have worth? It only has worth because in this reality we've been conditioned to realize that shit doesn't go our way. Fine. In that reality, the presumption is that you don't want a challenge but if you do, you'll get it. You'll get just the right amount. Oh you'll say but that's not 'real', that's 'faked', but there's no difference here, because you're nothing but a character in the story of reality, no more than an NPC in a program.

Oh good, you know about it too. Let's skip right to the point then - you cannot 'force' someone to do something without them having free will.

walls of text plastering the thread already? jesus christ.

ya dun gofd user for not including this

>steem says I'm in DoS: II
>look in process hacker
>ain't there
What the fug
Want more? I'm bored.

Sure, why the fuck not? What else do you have to rant about? come at me with those hot opinions.

I have nothing to rant about, although the original 'is Madara good or evil' bait was me.
To be perfectly honest I'd rather do something else but I've very little to do, as half of my friends are abroad and the others are asleep.

> half orc
Then who is half elf?

>I'm sorry half your friends are abroad and the others are asleep. maybe.... i could be your girlfriend tonight?

Well that depends now doesn't it. What am I getting in return?

Jail time. She's 13

A real good time :^)

She's 18 in that pic, m8. very legal.

Stay out of this cesspit until the new DLC comes and there's actually something to talk about again

That's blasphemy.

Not interested, not homosexual.

Nobody's that straight. Also what if I told you she had a penis?

Riiiiight. Gotcha.

Not heterosexual either. Ayame is more frigid than liquid helium.

The artist explicitly said so desu

>Proof?
Madara is clearly subject of the true reality, seeks to escape loss and victory, pleasure and pain. To him it does matter, which is key in establishing mens rea, thus him as an evil man.

Like I said, if that veracity of reality is so much greater than him, and he cannot understand the real world enough to manipulate that, trapping everyone else in the false subreality created by such a limited mind will inevitably lessen the universe everyone inhabits.

That is a is a loss willingly inflicted upon others, a harm done, on the scale of billions.
The nature of evil is an incredibly complicated topic, but I think I will stand by the belief that for the purposes of this conversation the wilful lessening of billions' quality of reality, as they fight you tooth and nail not to, would suffice as evil.

>how perfect gets defined
And there indeed is the core of our disagreement. You hold the unproven presumption that this alternative world, this illusion WILL be perfect.

You take a claim by clearly fallible characters, one I've shown how it is incredibly unlikely to hold true by virtue of the nature of the people inflicting that subreality, and accept its premise as fact. To do so, you need more backing that up.

All too readily we set aside the problem that this grand illusion WAS a lie, a trap, a deception.
Perhaps it doens't necessarily figure into the evil of the character himself, but it does, for me, undermine your faith in the nature of his solution to "pain".

>the concept of reality itself is in Buddhism one of pain
How is Buddhism, Zoroastrianism or the Anglican faith relevant here?
I was under the impression that this is a moral/philosophical discussion of the objectively false reality of IT, and the evil of the man forcing it on people, not an exchange of subjective spiritual perspectives.

>reality itself should have worth
Not necessarily worth, but it sure has presence, it is something we are made for. Without presuming perfection of the illusion, I am saying that the departure from reality itself should have provable worth.

And this figures into the question of Madara being evil by pointing out that again as a limited man, he was incapable of showing how this departure has worth, he actively chose violence to inflict it upon people (which is why I believe all that talk is just nonsense so he can enjoy his battle-boner).

>you're nothing but a character in the story of reality, no more than an NPC in a program
The funny thing about that is that despite this sure knowledge of the pre-set motion of all things, determinists still spend quite a lot of effort on attempting to convince people of their way of thinking.
Aren't you investing hope in my ability to change my mind about free will, convince me I do not have any? Trying to make a pre-programmed robot you believe incapable of changing its pre-determined program change its program is a self-contradiction.

I'm not trying to call you a hypocrite, nor do I claim you merely preach for the emotional gratification, and of course I cannot prove I am not pre-programmed, but if you ARE correct, this conversation and indeed all others are completely meaningless.

I do not have your beliefs, and even if erroneously, I am willing to make the leap of faith for free will (yeah, Pascal's Wager, but it's a pretty good one I think).
But why are you arguing your point?

> the unproven assumption that the alternative world will be perfect
Except we had a beta test that worked perfectly, in Kaguya's IT. And she would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for her meddling kids!

No, I hear you

I don't get people who argue against determinism. It's basically just saying that the universe is logical, and everything that happens is determined by how things are. Are you saying shit happens for no reason?

>You hold the unproven presumption that this alternative world, this illusion WILL be perfect.
No, I hold the confirmed fact that Madara believes the world will be perfect, which is what is relevant in establishing good and evil. Someone who kills a person he believed was the only thing standing in the way of world peace only to cause a nuclear holocaust is not Evil, he remains Good and his action was Good.

>how is buddhism...
Naruto's world has so much shit based off buddhism that you expect the world to essentially be the same.

>I am saying that the departure from reality itself should have provable worth.
The worth is that people would be happy by definition.
>without presuming
You're presuming reality is in itself the right one. Reality is perceived and therefore given a second reality, both are superior in metaphysical priority (this is probably the wrong term but it's the closest translation I have) to each other within their own worlds even if the second reality exists within the first.

>Aren't you investing hope in my ability to change my mind about free will, convince me I do not have any? Trying to make a pre-programmed robot you believe incapable of changing its pre-determined program change its program is a self-contradiction.
You completely misunderstand Laplace's demon then. Laplace's demon basically says everything can be described in a fuckmassive equation that you plug every variable in the universe into. Your personality is a composite variable - I'm trying to push the right buttons.

Programs essentially work in that they take an input or many inputs, process that input through a series of logical forks, then spit out an output. Emotion, logic, knowledge, personal bias, all of these are valid inputs for the human decision making / thinking process. I'm hoping to supply the correct input.

I've seen this argument against determinism before and all I can say is that being predictable doesn't mean being static.

I do not think we know enough about the human brain to make the call on the side of determinism quite yet, and we stand much to lose if we give up on the very concept of the free will, while it really doesn't cost us anything if we are wrong, because determinism lends itself to nihilism so easily. Like I said, it's a spin on Pascal's Wager.

Furthermore, even more irrational than arguing against determinism is arguing FOR determinism.
You rely on my free will and self-knowledge, self-ownership in order to change my mind about having any of that, to ultimately make no gain whatsoever.

>Trying to convince someone to be logical is irrational
"Free will" is a useless term. You make your own decisions. They just happen to be the decisions that you were led to make by all the factors involved

I don't know why you're acting like this is some sort of terrible thing, of course we make decisions based on our experiences

Free will exists in determinism, just not the way you're using it
Under determinism, if I ran this conversation a hundred thousand times, the EXACT same posts would appear at the EXACT same times, but not because we're incapable of thinking on our own or making our own decisions, but because these ARE the decisions we would be making given our personalities, our knowledge, our experiences, and our prejudices and these ARE the things we would think of every time we ran the simulation. This is basically the argument people use to say 'how can we have Free Will if God already knows what we'll do', and the counterargument is 'if your friend knows you so well that he knows exactly how you'll react to him eating steak with his fork only instead of with a fork and knife, do you lose the free will to react differently?'
No, you don't LOSE the free will, but you wouldn't precisely because you have free will and your free will, dictated by your personality, guides you to a certain decision.

This is why I say 'free will' the way you're using it isn't the same as the way determinists use it. We acknowledge your free will - we just think that someone who knows literally everything about your personality should be able to, by definition, predict what you'd do for any given situation.

> Ayame

See I'm torn how she's react to someone like the Last Hinata giving her shit
She's not stupid and very good at reading people so she'd know that Hinata would probably kill her depending on what she says, but she's also blunt and all smug and superior and loves to shit on people regardless of their physical power to kill her.

>determinism lends itself to nihilism so easily
Determinism just holds that everything is both a cause and effect and that you make your choices based on what you believe in what the hell are you going on about
I mean I guess it does lend itself to nihilism in the form of 'there's no inherent meaning which is why I'll find my own', it more or less assumes that, but in both determinism and nihilism the concept that your decision and the reason to live that you've found could literally be non-nihilism exists and it's perfectly okay.

Where is the user with that fanfiction?!

Dead.
Doth thou know how the world endeth?

>page 9

The fapfic? I'm done with the main thing, I'm just working on Sakura and Tenten drunkenly lezzing out like people requested.

It's pretty fucking difficult writing porn that's not just generic "[insert name] did X" but kind of builds on the character's own quirks, when it's between a mostly non-character and a very shallowly built other one I fucking loathe (without turning it into the kind where Tenten shits on Sakura's flat chest and throws a bunch of pink paint on it).

Alas, I am doing my best.

godspeed, writeanon. But I would also still be happy with "[insert name] did X" too.

How to people even write paragraphs in fanfiction? How do they know what to put? This is what happens when I try. I'm going to show you all how long mine is:

>So and so did this. And then there was that. They did this with this along with this. That is this. That. This. Stuff. Stuff.

That's how long I can do it. That's it and it's awful. I feel like killing myself because of it. Just fuck my shit up, senpai.

It's just a weird thing with me, even more so in my serious fic.
I hate it when writers bash characters they don't like and am terrified I do the same on some level, simply due to my own interpretation of that character. So when I write them, I feel like I am juggling china while walking on a tightrope, not wanting to lose the feel of the character (whom I hate/dislike) in an attempt to write them reasonably, while also not indulging myself in a petty vengeance against them or mischaracterising them as worse people than they actually are.

It depends on the person, but I approach the whole thing from a theatre perspective because that's the closest I've done to serious writing.

So try to jump into a character's head, think about what they'd think, how would they contextualise and interpret certain things.

Also keep in mind that descriptions and events aren't just a historic detailing, but part of an overall narrative, a tapestry. Try building an idea of how and where the mood should progress, colour events with the appropriate brush.

Someone chipper about their life might have a conversation with someone, watching kids at the Academy just practice shuriken, light-heartedly recall the mistakes they used to make, be happy the next generation is coming along fine, make an observation that the instructor chuunin lady is quite a looker.

Someone who is in far less bright a mood might reflect on the fact that they are being trained as child soldiers, wonder how long until these kids face situations no human being should, how many of them will live five years after graduation - not necessarily brooding or edgy for its own sake, just to build the momentum of the next scenes or situation of the character, which would influence how they act then.

...

...

>want to find lewd images of Tenten for inspiration
>end up saving a whole bunch of non-lewd pics of her, then of other characters, eventually ending up with saving pic after adorable pic of the neo-Uzumaki family
Fug. This isn't how it's supposed to go.

...

...

there's something wrong with these people

...

did these two ever fug you think?

If Kurutsushi made any advances, Mei would probably have killed her on the spot.

almost certainly not
little guy was probably mentally damaged around women thanks to the crazy bitch who dom'd him throughout his life

...

What are the two best assists to have?

Hanabi for close range is a must, if you want someone ridiculously powerful.
Long range, someone with one of those annoying fire techniques that follow you for ages.

Colors for the squad are pretty much finalized now. Fixed a couple other things. A bit rough still but when I draw through some expressions for them all it'll get more solid with practice.

gib feedback pls.

>it's 5:26 am
Welp. Night, guys.
Seriously, I'll get this fic finished asap, the remaining part should be quick, if I can do it up properly. Tomorrow, maybe the day after if I'm a lazy piece of shit or have something urgent to do.

They're doing puns now? Well shit.

The series is all about puns.

>hinata with Sakura's hair

I'm not saying they didn't. Darui thinks sex is too bothersome, Gaara is an autist and nardo is married.

she'd make me sweat with any hair tbhfam

How do I beat people? I'm so bad everyone just starts jumping and throwing kunai endlessly and it works and they beat me and I always run out of subs first.