Believing in god is literally one of the stupidest things that a fully grown adult could do...

>god exists

>atheism
>rational

God put a great deal of effort into making a universe that looked like it doesnt have a god

Also sexy double trips

For (You)

then why has there never been an atheist civilization?

>what is modern china

Regardless, its because people generally arent rational

(((modern))) china isnt its own civilization and most chinese are not atheist

and atheism has a monopoly on rationality? what a amazing coincidence that would be were it true!

Don't question his mysterious ways.

> universe that looked like it doesnt have a god

What about this Universe implies that the Universe has no creator?

...

everything

really makes you think

it's hard to tell whether these posters are actually THIS retarded or they are just fucking around. It's probably serious since its hard to believe anyone would find this kind of shitpost being done over and over and over funny.

or maybe he is actually a theist trying to get us to btfo his shit atheist arguments to give people reading it a good opinion of religion

either way op is a fag

very robust argument

to me everything implies there is a creator

The big bang theory was invented by a Catholic priest with zero backing of any science accepted today.

Keep trying to use a priests idea of science to attack aethist though.

so are you going to provide a single argument in favor of your claims?

God's rationality and our rationality are 2 different things
You try existing for probably trillions upon trillions of years before anything was ever created to distract you from your thoughts and see if you don't go a little crazy yourself

there is only one rationality but we dont understand even a tiny fraction of it

>he pronounces it as "dayus"
You burgers disgust me.

what is he even trying to say?

Tengri has many ways for men to approach him, some make more sense some are more obscure.

HAH nice

Is this bait?

unicorns were rhinos, the description changed as it was passed by word of mouth over 100s of miles, but unicorns exist

it is the same with god, it might not be a zeus-like figure but god exists

Yes. Almost every single post on Veeky Forums is bait because those are the only people dumb enough to think talking about humanities on an anonymous image forum is a good idea.

There was. It was the USSR.

...

China is literally called a civilization-state. Around half the country is atheist, and the ruling party is officially and explicitly atheist, having an atheistic, materialist worldview, requiring its members to be atheists, and propagating its worldview among the populace. If that's not an atheist civilization, I don't know what is.

>it is the same with god, it might not be a zeus-like figure but god exists
Care to give your specific non-zeus-like definition of God and proof that it exists?

This is gnosticism.

and look how that turned out.

>2016
>still not being agnostic
You plebs can only argue about nonsense like if there is or not a god.

This

>every habitable planet had at most bacteria living on it

Really makes us seem special when the universe isn't filled with millions of sentient Ayy species.

What are the ways?

Not believing in god is literally one of the stupidest things that a fully grown adult could do. So why do so many people do it, why are so many people prone to be irrational and delusional?

God is the title belonging to the one who made the universe. There is only one universe. There is only one God.

Whoever or whatever you think brought about the universe is your god.

>u can't know nuthin

>agnostic
>not apatheistic

>apathetistic
>not apathetic agnostic

...

What if "God" was not a person but an universal constant, which we could call "existance". What makes you think that existance itself is necessarily a "who"?

The existance or nonexistance of "God" is subjective to each individual.

>why are so many people prone to be irrational and delusional?

This isn't exclusive to religion.
Generally it's uncommon for people to challenge beliefs that were drilled into them in their youth. They get confirmation bias where they ignore evidence contrary to their opinion and over-emphasize any evidence that supports it. The same goes for political opinions and shit.

I remember reading that there's also a surprisingly significant genetic predisposition to religiosity, though I can't remember where.

Anyway, beyond the actual belief in a deity part there are a lot of other elements to organized religion that are appealing to certain people. It gives a sense of community, it helps deal with grief, for some it gives purpose. Some people appreciate having a set of well defined guiding principles to live by.

Personally I think the latter is what a lot of us have lost as people turn away from religion. Sure, you retain a certain sense of right and wrong (I think the argument "atheists lack morality" is silly), but very few people actually have a well-defined system of values that they judge themselves by. Everything is a sort of strategic hedonism - the end goal is to maximize pleasure rather than live virtuously, and that sort of lifestyle leaves many people unsatisfied at the end of it all.

Your god can be an impersonal force if that's what you want.

>The existance or nonexistance of "God" is subjective to each individual.

If you think about this statement long enough, you will realize it's ludicrous.

If it is impersonal then what makes it a God? It is just a force of nature, it doesn't have any goal or purpose, it just is.

That is the point i am trying to make.

It depends on whether the person identifies "it" as a god or not. It all boils down to the individual. That is what i say that the existance or nonexistance of God essentially boils down to the individual.

It doesn't matter how much science advances or how much we can prove about "god's" existance or the origin of existance itself, there is always someone who will say that "God created it", and there won't be enough evidence, because by definition, God created everything, and God created itself. God is just a way to perceive existance as a personified or intelligent force of creation.

God is not impersonal.

If you want your god to be an impersonal force, you can do that. You can say an impersonal force created the universe. And that force is your god.

You would be in the same position as Stephen Hawking, whose god is the law of gravity. Not even kidding. Hawking said that because there exists a law of gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.

You can also, as many people do, carve your own god out of wood, or clay, or brass, or silver, or gold. Whatever you want to make your god, including yourself, is your god.

When you're ready to deal with the one true God, He's ready to deal with you.

P.S: I'm not discussing the existance of the christian God or any specific God. I am discussing God in a general theist perspective, and not any specific religion.

Does your existence depend on how many people believe in you, or don't believe in you?

No?

Then why would God's?

You fail to understand my point, but you succeed to prove it by demonstrating your theist perspective.

I'm afraid your point stems from your difficulty in thinking that God is a person.

And that is something autistic people, no offense intended, have to be conscious of and overcome.

The question of gods existence hinges on metaphysical dialogue.
"EXIST"
does rocks exist? does motion? What about heat transfer, does that exist or is it only an idea?
What if we identify god as a form of motion and not a physical manifestation?

Words.
words words words.

God made man, man exploits several mechanical features to survive, then finds correlations in the logic he can produce to communicate ideas. This field of observation is only one narrow scope of our full potential, and we use it to dispose of God?

Does God exist?
better question, does scientific culture shock deprive the mind of spiritual thinking in order to survive in complex society?

God is a higher order than simple survival.

The truth is that if your exact genetic makeup were copied over to some feudal slave 1,000 years ago, you wouldn't have been confused by cars jets planes microprocessors and atomic models; believing in god would be easy and fulfilling.
You should be angered that you don't believe in God, you should be full of rage that you and your culture have allowed this deprivation.
But you won't be, because you're entertained.

Now you think you know better, because you have car jets planes and chemistry, but the reality is more chaotic here, pretty soon we will adopt musical tones to teach math instead of letters and syntax, our technologies will explode and people will look back to this era where we thought we knew everything and be filled with shame.

God and our belief in him will never die out, it will waver with the proliferation of ignorant internet dweebs in minuscule amounts, but it doesn't die. Just goes quiet once in a while.

Excellent post. Thank you.

You didn't understand anything of what i said. It is not "how many people". God is a subjective perception, and not an universal truth. God(and i'm referring to the theist definition of God, and not any specific religion's) exists for anyone who percieves him/it as God, and at the same time doesn't exist for the people who only percieve it as an impersonal natural force, instead of a God.

>Hawking said that because there exists a law of gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.

That's not the same as calling it a God. Unless your definition of a god is "responsible for the creation of the universe." But I'd be willing to bet you don't understand what he's talking about, and don't care to learn, because you're a fucking retard who could have been born without a brain without anyone noticing a difference.

I understood what you said, and I know that everything you said about God is false.

So what am I to do with that information? I know God, and you do not even claim to. You're not even sure He has His own existence, or if He is a person or a force or something unfathomable.

God is God no matter what anyone says, or thinks, or believes.

Because it's the truth no matter how crazy it sounds?

>your definition of a god is "responsible for the creation of the universe."

I stated as much above.

>I know God

No you don't. How do you know it's not a delusion?

P.S: What i am trying to say is that there will never be a way to prove the existance or nonexistance of God, only different points of view of the same thing.

Then you're a fucking imbecile.

Oh, I know what he's trying to do by what he says. He's trying to hide from the one true God. He's trying to imagine a scenario in which he will never be responsible for his own actions.

His theory is self-refuting, as he posits a universe created from nothing, yet where the law of gravity exists.

The law of gravity is not nothing.

There is too much something in his nothing.

How can God be capable of creating human beings but incapable of communicating with them, and making Himself known to them?

I know this to be absolutely false.

Everyone sees God, face to face, one day. 100% proof.

Too late for making decisions. Too late for salvation, if it is not yet obtained.

It's a fairly standard definition.

What is it with theists and not understanding the difference between scientific nothing and philosophical nothing? The scientific "nothing" refers only to an absence of matter. There is, has always been, and will always be various background energies and forces, such as gravity. This is scientific nothing.

>He's trying to hide from the one true God. He's trying to imagine a scenario in which he will never be responsible for his own actions.

Or he's a scientist, engaging in science, and you're an idiot, projecting your own hangups on him.

How's it feel to know that if you had never been born, the world would be no worse off, yet the same cannot be said of this man you're currently showing so much vitriol for?

The answer's obvious: he didn't create human beings. We're a product of evolution.

No, there have not.

I would love to see your empirical proof that before the Big Bang, there was gravity.

And your answer is obviously false. You just don't know it yet.

Jesus, bible, prophets, miracles, supernatural event, inherent knowledge of good and evil, and your very existence

It's a definition that excludes the vast majority of mythological figures considered to be gods, and includes any possible non-theistic explanation for the creation of the universe. It's idiotic and anyone that holds it is a moron.

Yup.

As I said many times above, you can choose whatever you want to be your god.

You just cannot choose the consequences of your choice.

Yes, yes. Why don't you go take some anti-psychotics? They might help you. There's a wide, wonderful world out there when you stop believing stories written by ancient schizophrenics.

>obviously false
Even the Christians claim that God is mysterious and requires "faith" to hope that he exist without any evidence, so he's definitely not obvious by any stretch, silly willy.

This is just too much... I hoped to find any decent theist arguments, but this is all clearly butthurt christians that can't even realize that wikipedia articles can prove that abrahamic religions are a rip-off of mesopotamic religions.

>prove
How so

Not even a Christian claim, dude.

It's just obvious that the One Who made the universe is greater than we are.

It's just pride in you that says otherwise. Pride turns angels into devils and keeps dead men dead.

>ur a bad person because you aren't superstitious

Cute.

It's very difficult dealing with autistic people. In the future, I suggest you make more of an effort to understand someone else's position.

>le appeal to maturity

Nice argument.

You see, the problem with these threads is that the atheists come with arguments and evidence of their claims, whereas the theists come with faith and mockery. They consider it a mark of pride to reject a sound argument, or evidence against their position because it proves them to be virtuous in the one fashion that truly matters to the religious: faith.

Obviously, a different tack needs to be taken. Science theists have taken up their faith and maintain it for emotional reasons, we need to argue against it on that level.

I wasn't calling you a Christian, I'm saying that you make even less sense than the Christians.

>uses Christian rhetoric
>I-I'm not a Christian

Yeah, OK.

There's no reason to assume that we were created by an active designer, and plenty of reasons to assume we weren't (how about cancer? the most fundamental process of our body regularly kills us stone dead and can strike at any point in our lifetime, what kind of designer would allow a flaw like that exist in their design?).

>the atheists come with arguments and evidence of their claims

Where exactly do you see that in this thread?

We actually don't know where gravity comes from, it's one of the most poorly understood forces in the universe. But we do know that it played an important role in the big bang, and so we can assume that it was around before the big bang, since it couldn't have played a part otherwise.

>fundamental process
A process needs a maker and cancer is punishment for our sins or for other reasons that can change many lives

Can you read and write English with ease?

You too? English your fourth language?

This is your empirical evidence? It must have been there?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_(god)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

The more you read the more rip-offs you find.
I personally like this one talking about some religious annual cycle in which they mourn their god's death and half some months later celebrate his rebirth (ring a bell?):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Cycle
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadad

I didn't say I have empirical evidence. I said there's no reason to assume it wasn't there. We have a reason to assume the universe wasn't always there, not so with gravity.

You also make some bizarre assumption that I assume empiricism is all. Which even in science isn't the case.

Also, the names of "demons" were all ripped off from the old gods as well:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar

In fact, Astarot, Astarte and even the famous Lucifer are all rip-offs of the goddess Ishtar.

Lucifer is a translation of the name of the goddess, which literally means "morning star", and symbolizes the planet venus, love, sex and fertility.

If you search about it you will find a lot other myths that share an astonishing similarity with Lucifer's "cast down from heaven" myth.

Zeitgeist was years ago, mate.