People who against Marxism never read "Communism Manisfestto" or "The Kapitalism"

>People who against Marxism never read "Communism Manisfestto" or "The Kapitalism"

What's your counter argument to this meme ?

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That given the ubiquity of both texts in university level education, most people who have commented on it, especially the economics involved, have indeed read the big marxist texts.

>The Kapitalism
8/10

>yfw when someone says that socialism is big government

You don't have to taste, smell or feel shit to know that it's shit.

It's true though, any kind of collectivism leads to authoritarianism and large state control at the expense of individual liberties.

>"The Kapitalism"

>unironically wasting time on socialists or communists

I've got better things to do than try to communicate with monkeys.

>this ideological nonsense

keg when will people discover the true value of scepticism

down with dogma

all hail oakeshott

>"The Kapitalism"

kek

>"the true political spectrum"
>here's a one-dimensional view

0/10

Why would I read a 1500 pages of tripe when I can just point to Venezuela or Cuba or the Soviet Union or Cambodia or China or Vietnam or North Korea to see how shit it would be to live in a Martin society?

I wish Engels had never written the manifesto it's retarded.

To be fair, I tried reading Ayn Rand's works too and gave up after the 300th page,

Because commies will argue that those countries are not truly Communism countries

All state capitalist countries

>What's the counter to this meme

Reading the books and forming your own opinion on it you uneducated illiterate.

this

Because I want there to be competition in the world.

But there can be competition is socialism. It's called market socialism

Real competition, not Fisher-Price Kompetition 4 Kidz

It isn't by default, but it usually turns out to be.

>real competition
>can be reconciled with a moral vision of the distribution of goods

Truly the tob geg

>most people who have commented on it, especially the economics involved, have indeed read the big marxist texts.

No they haven't. This is why economists never actually argue correctly against Das Kapital but shitty strawman versions of Marx's arguments, which is why "Das Mudpie" is such a meme in econ departments to prove why Marxism is "wrong".

Even Capital in the 21st century, y'know, the "DAS KAPITALISM SUCCESSOR" by Piketty had no fucking clue about Marx's theories in his pathetic attempt to debunk Marx and when pulled up on it, he complained that Das Kapital is too big so he didn't bother reading it.

Rothbard and Hayek's critiques of Das Kapital are also based entirely on hearsay and strawmen, both get shit wrong that is covered in the very first chapter.

Das Kapital is huge fucking economics treatise and intersects a lot with Sociology. 99% of Econfags have never even opened it.

This actually was my biggest disappointment doing Econ as a minor, I thought it would be far more about the history of economics and the structure of multiple economic systems and looking at experimental post-capitalist economics. Instead, it was Neo-Classical and Keynesian circlejerking to the extreme with the Laffer curve being held as some sacred universal truth, oh and the lecturer would go on numerous rants how regulations and any Government intervention into markets was a crime against humanity.

>real competition
>fight to the death
>but you bought the best armor and the best sword and hired a master sword teacher to tutor you and you bribed the referee

That's because the USSR wanted every socialist state to be like a little USSR, and most people who said they wanted revolution wanted something like the USSR, or at the ones that said so got the USSR funding.

Venezuela is not Socialist nor has any Socialist economic policies except the experimental "commune" system (local democratic councils).
Price fixing = / = Communism.

Cuba, Soviet Union, China, Vietnam and North Korea are all State Capitalist Leninist, which is only one school of Socialism and isn't even mainstream outside of shitty third world countries. Also most of these countries are shit largely due to "nepotism: the bureaucratic system", not even their planned state-capitalist economies.

Never read Mein Kampf? lol well then how can you be against Hitler?

checkmate jews

Thank you for proving my point.
Also, see

Exactly.

Real competition is multi-generational, inherently unfair, and played on many different levels. Real competition involves everyone and everything, regardless of the willingness of their involvement. Real competition creates suffering in the wake of unjust victories, and this suffering breeds revolution, catastrophe, and progress.

Also, why the hell is there a referee at a fight to the death? What the fuck is wrong with you socialists?

The referee is there to stop the peasant in case he gets the upper hand and send in the guards that you paid for.

>moral vision of distribution of goods
There's only a moral vision of distribution of capital, not the goods produced with labor and capital. Anything beyond that is egalitarian idealism mixed with socialism.

It bothers me when people debunk Marx by disproving Smith's LTV, completely ignoring the revisions Marx made to classical LTV, but they never give Smith or any other classical economist shit for using LTV because they weren't hostile to capitalism.

I realize too late it was a b8

6/10 just because you are right

>dude bernie is a communist lmao
>dude social democracy is undermining capitalism rather than saving it lmao

...

Then, sixty years later, your estate is looted and burned while your descendants are lynched by the descendants of the peasant's family and friends, whose descendants will in turn be the next generation of aristocrats.

It's perfect.

>Why would I read

American education.

Marx was never a head of state

yeah because Marx was just some butthurt loser who wrote how all his personal problems are everyone elses fault

problem is some guy named Lenin found these writting and implemented them, not realizing it was all just a meme

a meme that cost 100 million people their lives

This is a history board, and history is usually written in books. Try some.

Where is the memepic of Marx's life story.

>implying communism is necessarily collectivist

this

shut up you middle class commieboo apologiest

you virgin LARPer

you mental midget

Try growing up out of your "fuck you dad!" rebellious phase.

Marxism is to economics what Korn is to music

Thats what you are. You are like some 16 year old who reeks of axe body spray wearing a Korn t-shirt and jnco jeans walking into a fancy opera house and then smugly looking around at everyone whos dressed to the 9s and smugly thinking to yourself "hmm, these guys look like assholes"

you and your ilk are bottom of the barrel. Keep praising this dead failure of a meme ideology so you can virtue signal to your beta male professor that you are one of the "smart kids"

fuck you

You can read all the theories on Communism you like but in practice, it always turned out the same; a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power.

Stalin was no different then the previous czars (though far more brutal) and Mao was just like the Chinese emperors he replaced.

The real answer to communism / capitalism debate, is worker owned co-operatives; freedom will only come when the workers actually control the wealth they create, anything else is just another corrupt hierarchy.

>People who against Marxism never read "Communism Manisfestto" or "The Kapitalism"
>which puts them at odds with the people who never read either of those works and claim to be marxists anyway

Go away, /leftypol/. no one likes you

>local democratic councils
Are these like county councils here in the U.S.?

Get fucked redditor.

You can read all the theories on Democracy you like but in practice, it always turned out the same; a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power.

You can read all the theories on Capitalism you like but in practice, it always turned out the same; a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power.

etc.

>The real answer to communism / capitalism debate, is worker owned co-operatives; freedom will only come when the workers actually control the wealth they create, anything else is just another corrupt hierarchy.
This is literally a form of socialism.

>freedom will only come when the workers actually control the wealth they create
As a working man, I have no desire to have ANY type of control over the wealth of my company, much less do I desire for my coworkers to have any control

I am well aware of what it takes to run a company, as I have done so in the past. I know what a time consuming, worrisome, competitive and stressful nightmare it is and have absolutely NO desire to partake in it again. That is why I am content working each week in exchange for a paycheck and a handful of benefits here and there (medical, dental, PTO, and a few other odds and ends).


and I don't want my coworkers to control the company either because they are (with the exception of maybe two or three people) massive imbeciles and would ruin the place in a matter of weeks

>You can read all the theories on Democracy you like but in practice, it always turned out the same; a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power.
>You can read all the theories on Capitalism you like but in practice, it always turned out the same; a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power.
I'll take the 80/20 rule for 500, Alex

>You can read all the theories on Democracy you like
>You can read all the theories on Capitalism you like

I already addressed that in the post you're replying to (which one would think you had read...)

"The real answer to communism / capitalism debate, is worker owned co-operatives."

>As a working man, I have no desire to have ANY type of control over the wealth of my company, much less do I desire for my coworkers to have any control

You clearly don't know how a co-op works;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

Well, if you have a state, isn't it basically a given that
>a small parasitic minority who controlled all the wealth and had all the power
especially when humans are evolved to create hierarchies, making anarchism retarded.

The best you can do is set checks and balances and have the align interests with the many, so what's good for the few is good for the many. What's bad for the many is bad for the few.

this one?

You proposed syndicalism, which is socialism.

>The real answer to communism / capitalism debate, is worker owned co-operatives.
That already exists. It's called an employee owned company.

And sorry commiefags, Marx doesn't have a patent on this concept. It's was around before anybody even knew who his sorry ass was

I really wish Europe didn't have such a inferiority complex towards us. It's so glaring at times.

Marx didn't invent socialism or communism either. You could be a non-Marxist socialist or communist. Marx was just extremely influential in the understanding of socialism and communism.

>Elected management
Fuck that shit. It suffers from the same pitfall as employees running the company; They're all idiots.

Therefor, we should not be surprised if they elect an idiot for management

I want the management team to be in the position they are in because they are the most fit to do it, not because they won a popularity contest.

Of course...management does not get to their position by democratic nor meritocratic means, they get there by nepotism.

And sadly, nepotism is just a hard truth of the human condition that nothing will ever fix. It has plagued humans long before you and I were around and will continue to plague them long after we are gone

It's not real communism/socialism/marxism/leftism if it doesn't work silly goyim!

>Das Kapital is a huge economics treatise

I don't need to actually eat shit to know that it tastes like shit

>ANOTHER gommunism thread

Guys, can we just make a communist general so that we can contain this shit once and for all

>DPRK
It's not real democracy/people/republic/corea if it doesn't work.

That sounds horrible.

And would not happen, not even metaphorically.

Very few anti-fascists have read anything written by Giovanni Gentile, or even Mein kampf.

>Marx never had a job
When will this meme end?

>there are people right now on Veeky Forums who haven't read the Wealth of Nations

freelancing is not a job.

and it's a hell of a lot more fun when you have a wealthy friend to leach off of

>you have to be a wagecuck to count as a job

>you have to be a wagecuck to count as a job
Yes, that's the point.

Be honest, user. Have you ever had a job?

>I can arbitrarily change defenitions so I feel I'm right

...

Have you just never heard about violent lower/middle-class uprisings?

They happen with such incredible regularity that I can't really fathom how you haven't noticed by now.

Son, do you even have a job?...

>Son, do you even have a job?...
Yes. Do you?

>It doesn't even try

*sigh*

...