At one point in American history, Italian immigrants were considered comparable to black people. Italian immigrants were lynched and, in fact, they hold the "record" of most people of the same ethnicity lynched by a mob at once. Eleven Italians were unlawfully lynched by an angry mob down in New Orleans.
So I ask, why is it that the Italian American culture was able to develop into what it is today? Italian Americans have a significantly lower crime rate than African Americans (who hold the number one spot in nearly every violent crime), Italian culture is idolized in America, from Italian cuisine to cinema to their automobile industry.
Although Italians may never have been slaves, they still dealt with the oppression of the Jim Crow era. I'm curious as to the historical reasons as to why Italians were able to elevate above being an oppressed people while African-Americans could not.
Frankly, I think you're oversimplifying things and downplaying slavery. Could you REALLY compare wogs with niggers? Majority of blacks came out of slavery and spread across the US, they had absolutely no cultural foundation to hold onto. Italians came from a place with already established knowledge and were clustered afaik in specific spots so that sort of hegemony and cultural comprehension could have helped maintain order.
Joseph Adams
I mean, it's not news that we're the best nationality in the world: open, charismatic, outgoing, charming, with a millennia long culture of civility, annd naturally versed in diplomacy. Jk, I have no idea tbqh.
If it's IQ then how did Italians raise their IQ? Theirs was around 85-89 just like Hispanic and Muslim immigrants today.
William Long
They were at no point treated as badly as blacks were.
They were eventually considered white, blacks never were.
They're not concentrated in the south
Jaxon Mitchell
>Frankly, I think you're oversimplifying things and downplaying slavery. Could you REALLY compare wogs with niggers? This. I'm an Irish Studies grad, and one thing I learned in 4 years is what an undeserved martyr complex Irish-Americans have.
The biggest thing though that Italian and Irish Americans had (and Jewish Americans) is the option to opt in to white culture. Same applies to white hispanics.
They have the option to join in the American system, and a key part of that is us on top, blacks on the bottom (Indians used to be there too). The opportunity for that to happen has never even vaguely presented itself to Blacks.
Gavin Bell
>The opportunity for that to happen has never even vaguely presented itself to Blacks.
explain obama
Mason Morgan
why were irishmen discriminated against in america?
Jordan Sullivan
>Italians came from a place with already established knowledge
Uhtalians may have been Latinz and shit, but African were kings. KIANGZ!
Thomas Hill
you're right, that's why I'm not making shit like that up.
I don't understand what you're getting at even. I didn't excuse niggers in my post. They might as well be just less intelligent by nature, I wouldn't know and don't really care. But do you seriously think that slavery had no impact on the development of their communities and that its history had absolutely zero effect?
Evan Sanders
Jews were slaves and they became the most powerful ethnic group in the world.
Joshua Thomas
IQ
Isaac Perry
Are you leftards really that stupid? The Roman Empire practiced slavery for hundreds of years and before that Arabs, Turks, North Africans, and other semites endlaved people from the Italian peninsula for a good portion of the last 20,000 years
Dylan Rivera
>The opportunity for that to happen has never even vaguely presented itself to Blacks. Bullshit.
For nearly half a century. Academic institutions have gone OUT OF THEIR to take in black students, even if it means shirking white, asian and even hispanic students in the process
Yet instead of getting into something useful like medicine or finance, they opt to get into afro-american studies and other meme degrees that are next to useless. They have been given more free handouts than any other class in American history, yet they still refuse to integrate. How much longer is going to be seen as an issue of Slavery and Discrimination and not a matter of irresponsibility and squandered opportunities?
Daniel Sanders
Putting aside your tinfoil, this is a terrible comparison on its own. Do I really need to break it down to you how much it isn't the same? And do you seriously, unironically, not meming, think that prolonged slavery, lack of education in a culture and lack of foundation will not cause some sort of effect on a group? Even minimal?
Benjamin Hughes
>How much longer is going to be seen as an issue of Slavery and Discrimination and not a matter of irresponsibility and squandered opportunities?
This. Compare with Jews in 1940s. The Jews managed to go from being genocided and oppressed to forming an entire nation and become the most powerful ethnic group in the world in under 50 years.
Tyler Lee
>Jews were slaves On top of everything else stupid about this post, this just isn't true. Exodus is a lot of WE WUZing.
Adrian Robinson
>Jews claiming to be slaves
That's stupid. Who claims to be oppressed? I'd be claiming we wuz kiangz and shit, not being enslaved.
Ian Foster
Jews weren't oppressed before the rise of Nazism and already had intellectual foundation.
Jesus Christ Veeky Forums.
Dominic Morris
>Jews weren't oppressed before the rise of Nazism
L M A O M A O
Matthew Howard
>Jews weren't oppressed before the rise of Nazism
Isaac Sanders
Sure. Just the way the question is posed shows this framing and this difference. Obama is also of Irish descent, and there's no 'explaining' to be done about how and why he's president.
Obama is a particular black person who's allowed to head the political structure of the United States. This does not represent any fundamental shift in racial identity in America. The demographics didn't suddenly shift with 2008. Nobody saw Obama get elected and though 'hey, I guess Tyrone and Jamal are white now.'
Samuel Nelson
>Hitler wanted to eradicate the Jewish influence on media, intellectual discussion and the culture as a whole in Europe >but they were definitely oppressed
Historically illiterate replies, yep, checks out, I'm definitely on good ol' Veeky Forums.
Matthew Morris
If at any point in the present blacks have yet to "opt in to white culture" it is because they -refuse- to (for whatever number of reasons)
Justin Robinson
Italians were never lynched en mase, it only happened in one isolated case and it was because a bunch of Italians killed two cops so they kinda deserved it
They were never segregated too. In the South they drank and eat at the same places as whites
Racism against Dagos and Micks is extremely overrated, it's like the meme We Wuz Kings
Daniel Flores
>nobody ever discriminated against jews before the Nazi party came to power
Mason Gonzalez
Answer the fucking question you dumb fucking stormfag
Carson Sullivan
>allowed in academia >allowed in the media >allowed in the financial institutions >allowed in the art world
1500 isn't the same as 1800-1900 user, and whatever was between, it wasn't outright slavery.
It's usually /pol/'s job to scream logical fallacies at the opponent, but this time I'll do it too: nice strawman.
Incidentally it's also usually /pol/'s job to commit them.
Camden Morris
>it was because a bunch of Italians killed two cops so they kinda deserved it
nu uh, they was good boys.
Blake Carter
>1500 isn't the same as 1800-1900 user, and whatever was between, it wasn't outright slavery.
Sebastian Wilson
poor idiot. Italian is a country. Not ethnicity. God, the question is so dumb...
Forget you are white (and the dream that you are a gift) and start studing and cleaning your butthole
Gabriel Edwards
Simply put, blacks were let out of slavery TOO EARLY. And no I don't mean this in any racist way. By the time slavery was abolished, there have been generations where the only things blacks knew was "how to be a slave."
Blacks should have continued to be slaves until they were taught how to be civil, learn things other men could do, and above all, be taught morals. Of course, with all the KKK members and racists around, its not like anyone had much morals anyway.
Blacks were poorly integrated intro society during the reformation era. Nobody took it upon themselves how to teach these masses of slaves how to be decent fucking human beings, and of course the end result is the African Americans we have today.
Nathaniel Howard
>Italian is a country
Lincoln Wilson
>Italian >Not ethnicity
Jaxson Nguyen
...
Ethan King
>white hispanics Can someone explain this fucking stupid and gross meme?
What the fuck is a """White Hispanic"" in America anyway?
Salma Hayek? Charle Sheen? an average illegal beaner?
This white hispanic bullshit needs to stop. There's a big racial difference between Salma Hayek and Charlie Sheen and even bigger between an illegal beaner
In order to be white hispanic you should prove your ancestors came from Iberia, not that you have a drop of Spanish blood and the rest if Native genes >Pic related, how is he fucking white?
Evan Sullivan
Funniest topic on Veeky Forums at the moment.
Joshua Hill
>He's still posting Seriously, fuck off
Jace Jackson
Dude let go of the memes. There's been extensive research on the subject, modern Italians are basically the same genetically as they were during the iron age. Italy is not a melting pot.
John Wood
isn't the same as 1800-1900 >he doesn't know that Jews were segregated into pogroms in Russia, were integrated into french society only by the reforms of Napoleon III, and were still largely vilified in Italy and Germany
The upper class of Jews may have entertained an enormous control on entertainment and media industries, but the middle class of them wasn't as favored as they were.
James Miller
Hahahahahahaha. Good 1 m8. Let's just forget the fact that Sicilians and Southern Italians have a significant amount of semitic, albanian, and slavic blood
Jordan Cruz
>What the fuck is a """White Hispanic"" in America anyway? Well, Hispanic is a culture, not a race/ethnicity so anybody from a Afro-Colombian, to a mestizo in Guatemala, a 100% native Peruvian, a 100% Spaniard Cuban or a straight up ginger (pic related) could be counted as hispanic
Dominic Hall
Come the fuck on, man. Even /pol/ resolved this shit ages ago
Leo Hall
You don't need to forget what isn't true user. Sicilians and calabrian have some greek blood, but that's it, the rest is memes.
Ryder Hill
Even if it wasn't as favored, it still wasn't as oppressed as it is given, they had liberties. And whatever their conditions were throughout the ages, it wasn't as bad as slaves as the other anons try to present.
also >putting Russian Jews, Polish Jews, German Jews in one category of rights
Chase Price
They can't change the color of their skin, genius.
If an Italian man marries an American woman or sends his children to an American school, after only a couple of generations, he will have descendents who are Italian in name only- and some won't even have his surname. If you want to ban Italians from your store, you're going to have the ask every customer for their surname and family history. If you want to discriminate against blacks, you can spot them from across the street.
Hudson Lopez
>slavic
???
Luke Watson
> and before that Arabs, Turks, North Africans, and other semites endlaved people from the Italian peninsula for a good portion of the last 20,000 years
What the fuck am I reading...
Brandon Cooper
...
Wyatt Ramirez
>20,000 years He's trolling you, disregard him.
Christian Wood
It doesn't matter what the color of their skin is.
What matters is that they're still acting like niggers, no matter what anybody (including particularly influential black leaders) tries to do about it.
Still to present, we look down on the white trash, hoodlum Cholos and Hmong street gangs all the same. But the difference being; While the larger body of self respecting whites disown the White trash, as do the Hispanics and Asians with their respective delinquents, the situation with blacks is reversed; The larger body of delinquents disowns the sane people who want to get their life back on track by branding them an 'Uncle Tom' or some other race traitor
I'm not saying slavery and historic discrimination didn't cause problems.
I'm not saying the aftermath of it still isn't felt today
What I am saying is that it is FAR from being the only thing wrong with the Black community in the states
And that furthermore, it is not THE biggest problem they face
Colton Jackson
>as do the Hispanics
I don't know about that one
Oliver Bennett
Italy has the highest IQ in Europe right now after Finland
Dominic Lee
Not even close to being true. Data is from the Wealth of Nations people, updated 2012
Aiden Parker
Unadjusted in case you think I'm trying to bullshit you
Justin Lewis
Dude stop. IQ is halfway bullshit already, and no study of any real value has ever been made at the national level. Look here: iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country Done by the same fucking people too. Apparently italians were the smartest euros in 2006, how does that happen? It happens because IQ studies are done with laughably sized champions every single fucking time, so they're always so imprecise it's pointless to bother with them.
Easton Ward
That's a rather nihilistic viewpoint. Anyone who succumbs to poverty or drug abuse has to be excluded from society? Eventually everyone will.
Grayson James
>Anyone who succumbs to poverty or drug abuse has to be excluded from society? Never said that
Dylan Hughes
>the larger body of self respecting whites disown the White trash
Parker Russell
I'm not talking about the people who made honest mistakes in their life. I'm talking about the lost causes that will always be trash no matter how much time, effort and money you throw their way (which sad to say is many more people in the world than the innocent mind is comfortable to acknowledge)
Caleb Reyes
How is this not true? Trailer park whites are treated as bad as niggers.
Christian Barnes
>Gypsies, Spanish, and Hispanic trash >only one or two people in that picture are actually "full" Italian
Jaxson Sullivan
>A half white guy
Yeah, explain Obama user.
White Hispanics don't usually do that, at least not around here anyway. Some Cuban guy started to curse me out because I thought he was just a generic White American.
Brandon Nelson
Tyrone (who's name is Irish) and Jamal are probably closer to white people than actual Africans are anyway. The average black American is 20-25% European after all (but no ones gonna call them white or mixed race).
Angel Ward
Salma Hayek is half Lebanese (who are considered white in America) and half Spanish. Charlie Sheen is 1/4th Spanish and the rest Irish (last I recalled). What a terrible example user. If being a White Hispanic means you have to have full ties to Iberia, then Salma has a better chance than Charlie.
Besides, I've seen Spanish women with similar features to her before.
Ayden Harris
Because Americans stopped being racist against white people.
Henry Price
...
Logan Murphy
>dutch-american
Charles Baker
>For nearly half a century. Academic institutions have gone OUT OF THEIR to take in black students, even if it means shirking white, asian and even hispanic students in the process
Yet instead of getting into something useful like medicine or finance, they opt to get into afro-american studies and other meme degrees that are next to useless. They have been given more free handouts than any other class in American history, yet they still refuse to integrate.
Source?
Brody Lee
I'd like someone who actually knows what they're talking about to expound this. Were some parts of America (especially the south) not ready and unable to cope with the abolishment of slavery?
Blacks moved up north into the big cities and native-born white Americans realized that they had much more in common with white foreigners than with blacks, and later the growing numbers of Mexican and Asian immigrants.
Chase Wilson
For the same reason Hispanics are now, large numbers of them were emigrating over here.
Carson Scott
>Reply Because an Italian can take relatively easy efforts to "disguise" themselves as white like getting rid of their accents, dressing like locals, taking American sounding names (Robert, Mark and Anthony instead of Roberto, Mario and Antonio for instance) etc. Blacks on the other hand unless they were like 7/8ths white could always be picked out visually no matter how much they assimilated in all the ways that matter. Thus Italians could escape persecution by not being identifiable and thus prosper while blacks could not.
Nicholas Ramirez
But, as pointed out earlier in this thread, contemporary American society actively tries to include blacks, selecting them because their black, into programs that promote upward social mobility. Blacks are still underperforming in universities and have lower IQs even if they were raised in the same environment as rich whites and received the same education.
Jacob Rogers
Just because things are better for Blacks today doesn't mean everuhings peachy. Those policies you've pointed out have increased achievement among Blacks, who today are in general less poor and better educated than they used to be. However even with these gains they have employment problems because of the "last hired, first fired" It's a known fact that if you give most managers two resumes identical except for race, 9/10 times the black doesn't get the job. This extends to promotions, jury convictions, you name it.
Eli Richardson
Because there was time inbetween to recover. The Jews are no doubt the most oppressed group of people in history. They've been enslaved, ghettoised, deported, and straight up murdered among other things. They endured that for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Slavery lasted, at it's absolute longest, 150 years in the US. Jim Crow laws lasted another 100. Thats a maximum of 250 years of oppression for blacks, in many areas of the US it was significantly shorter. Almost three generations have passed since the last remnants of institutionalised oppression last left the US.