Alright, it's getting close to time for me to look at new cars, I've got three in mind...

if you can keep up with the maintenance and find one in good shape, the E46 is easily the best of these

E46 > TL > Subie

Are you hoping to save money?
Subie > BMW > Acura

Are you looking for fun even though you're keeping it stock?
BMW > Subie > Acura

My opinion? If it's the Legacy GT then
Subie > BMW > Acura

If you have winters then get the subie and fuck off. Shouldn't have even posted.

anybody have any idea which would be the easiest to live with?

TL if you buy a clean one that was adult owned and has a clean title.

Acura TL

I'm keeping my options open just in case i find one of them in better condition. i know in the wrong hands all three can go to shit real fast, i see it all over the town i live in.

I'd go for a 330 though. i6, manual, rwd, small, the way god intended. maintenance isn't bad if you can turn a wrench and do the easy stuff.

that's my gut instinct, but i like the other two cars, and i know BMW maintenance can get out of hand super quick if you aren't attentive.

330i ZHP > Legacy GT > TL 6 speed >>>> 330i

The Legacies are kinda unreliable (about as much as the BMWs, honestly), but the best all around car.

what makes the other three so much better than the normal 330?

as much as retards on Veeky Forums will spout that the Acura TL is just a accord with leather seats its actually a much better luxury car than the 330i.

Larger Nav screen
Leather wrapped everything
real metals
minimal cheap feeling plastics

that's why its in the running at all, seems closer to a liveable 5 series than a straight up sports sedan

depends on your definition of sports. the 3G TL's with a back seat were still faster than any of the 2005-2010 mustangs rocking that shitty cologne v6

>ZHP Differences over 330i

Cams
Flywheel
Muffler
DME Tune
Front LCAs
Shocks/Springs/Swaybars (slightly stiffer/larger)
Short Shifter
Shorter Rear Diff (3.07 vs 2.91)
Red Loctite'd Oil Pump Nut
6 speed vs 5 speed
Alcantara Wheel and Shift Boot/Knob

I wouldn't bother with a E46 330i unless it was like, $3-5000. The TL is even a better car (most reliable option). The Legacy is more fun and quicker. The ZHP is as quick as the Legacy while being the best to drive, and nice inside. Its a 330i tuned by Alpina.

Sports means I can toss it around. The tl is both big and fwd, not exactly what they call tossable

eagle talon but desu anyone in the game has gone s platform

u fucking wat

Getting ready for bed, anybody else have an opinion?

Has anybody here lived with an e46 for any serious amount of time?

ive had a 3g tl for 8 months it is pretty great

dont bother with the auto though

>Has anybody here lived with an e46 for any serious amount of time?

I work at a dealership and we've taken in a number of E46s in on trade that the owner had to sell because he couldn't keep up with the maintenance. All of them were young kids who bought it for the exact same reason you wanted it.

Get the Acura if you still want the nice leather but don't want gigantic bills or headaches, or the Subie if you can do without the leather.

Friendly reminder that only niggers and sandniggers want to buy a BMW or Merco-benz

In somewhat of the same boat OP.

I'm considering those cars along with the g35/g37.

From my research the TL will be the most reliable.

The TL Type S will have the best mix of luxury,reliability, speed, and decent maintenance costs. BMW is insane and the Legacy being AWD makes things harder

Manual type s is faster than the 330 and Legacy by a good amount

What about a Mazdaspeed6 senpai? Direct competitor to the Legacy.

I drove the B spec Legacy at a stealership and wasn't impressed, everything felt too rough... Clutch, gearbox, engine, ride. It felt like rowing a stick through a bucket of coarse pebbles.

Ended up testing the MS6 honestly expecting it to be the inferior car but it was so much better. I've had it for around two years now.

/Blogpost

Go for the TLS. Japanese reliability, most power, best styling after 10 years. E46 330i is BMW's equivalent of the BRZ - 220hp lmao.

Also don't fall for the FWD meme:
youtube.com/watch?v=S40o3-I-dDQ

2k? You can't buy any of those cars. If you do it will be with 175k miles or more. So It will cost more to maintain than buy.

Just buy a cheap shit box if you have less than 5k to spend

BMW: Yes
SUBARU: Vapecore
ACURA: Kill yourself

2k as in from the year 2k and around then.

I'm budgeting 6500 for the buy and another 1500 for initial repair and maintenance.

I'm not crazy

I have driven two legavies, had a '99 legacy b4 as a daily and a 2003 rental car for a weekend

Both where great. It's not a WRX but with a tune and some mild changes can still be wicked fun on a twisty road. Its also more low key than a WRX as cops don't think it's a boyracer car

The Mazda is rarer and less reliable. No thanks.

People really don't realize the huge difference in speed. 330i dyno well under 200whp if they are doing 220hp at the crank.

TL dynos:
Base Auto: 205whp
Base 6MT / Auto TypeS: 225whp
6MT TypeS: 245whp

Bolt ons for 2k-3k have been dynoed tested to give you ~60whp.

That's over 300whp in a reliable daily. But sure go ahead and fall for the RWD meme.

>rwd
>meme

pick one

Nice rebuttal. Now watch this:

Also Civic Type R 7:50 on the Ring. Faster time then a 600hp RWD Cadillac.

RWD is only good for going sideways, not performance. If you want performance, it better be mid/rear engine.

Oh yea, that's why I like the LGT. Subaru without all the childish stigma. Definitely looks more upscale than a Imprezza too

I want the Beamer because I want the Beamer. I understand fully that DDing a car like that is going to mean weekly maintenance.

The legacy is better than all those bc turbo and AWD and just look at it!

Friendly reminder that nobody gives a fuck what some idiotic racist fuckboy on Veeky Forums thinks.

Having a hell of a time finding a type s anywhere near me :/

Great, you won't find a TL Type S 6MT for anywhere close to the price of any of those cars. Maybe a TL 6MT for $6-9k (same price as a 330i ZHP and Legacy GT, both way better cars).

And all reliability goes out the window with a auto on a V6 Honda.

TL is a nice car, Type-S is even nicer. Handles cornering and highway speeds very well but is also a great DD. Don't buy the auto if you can help it.

I wouldn't recommend the e46 unless you're getting an m3, and then I wouldn't recommend the m3 unless you have deep pockets. I had an e46 and it wasn't a bad car, just kind of disappointing. The i6 sounds good though.

>How does value and reliability affect price?

Reason why 330i is so cheap is because people want to get rid of all the problems that come with it. Add a few thousand in maintenance and tuneups on top of the price you got that 330i for and you'll drop as the same amount, if not more, then a TLS. There's a reason why M6s starts at $115k then a few years later drops down into the $20-30k.

Also your range is off. Used TL 6MTs go for around $4-8k. Used TLS 6MTs go for a bit higher. I've seen a low mileage TLS sell for almost $20k. They hold their value well because they are built to last.

Coming from an SOHC focus, even the 325i would be exciting.

There are a lot of curvy roads less than 30 mins from my house.

>Age: 330i is usually older (01-05) than TL (04-08)
>Numbers Sold: They sold WAY WAY WAY more manual 330is than TLs

Average price for one in my area is $5-10k, with the low end having a fuckton of miles. And I live in a area with a ton of manual TLs. On average a 330i in comparison goes for $3-7k (high end gets you a mint low mileage car). With ZHPs for the $6-10k range.

I'd get a Legacy GT for that amount. Or a 330i ZHP.

Any 330 I would be would be put through a ringer of inspection and I'd have at least 2k on hand to get things back to good operating condition.

get a e46 m3 or a cts-v

Those are both specialty performance cars. I'm looking for a dd with a little bit of fun potential.

3 series sold slightly more because there were more models and starting price was cheaper and every womyn and her pet rat dog wanted one.

Also ZHP has ~10hp extra. Still slower then a base TL, with older tech. Common problems - oil/water pump, misfire, sensor failure, faulty hydraulic lifters, and most of these problems surface at around 50,000 miles. Acuras don't start having problems until 150,000 miles and that's if you treat it like shit. All these auto tranny problems surface because customers wear and tear the shit out of their trannies - GAS brake GAS brake and never replace fluids until they get the flashing D light.

BMW is fun in snow lol

Only one of those actually applies to the 330i (water pump).

ZHP drives better, end of story. Closer to a E36 M3 than anything. The TL does not feel as good to drive. Drive both, and come back. I guarantee you the BMW will have better steering feedback/feel, it'll be more fun around a corner, and have better brake feel. If the BMW wasn't such a good overall package, it wouldn't have such a legion of rabid followers despite its problems.

I'd look at a G35/350Z too.

caranddriver.com/comparisons/bmw-330ci-page-3

Good to know.

I'm aware of all the issues on the E46

A coupe that small is out of the question unfortunately.

>Only one of those actually applies to the 330i (water pump).

Yeah, no.. The 330i has a problem with the oil sprocket nut unscrewing itself if you spend alot of time at very high RPMs (close to redline). Which is obviously most common for cars that's getting used on tracks. The result is loss of oil pressure and if you're really lucky, lots of engine damage. It happens due to vibrations etc.

M54 also has some problems with crankcase ventilation.

That, and if you're extra lucky, have a old dried out valvecover gasket, you'll have to deal with oil consumption.

>Oil Pump Nut

ZHPs already have it red loctite'd on from the factory. And you could just drop the pan and get a safety wire'd nut ($10) or stake it/red loctite it.

Crankcase Ventilation is endemic to all BMWs. $70 on a Oil Separator Valve. Its not any different from a PCV valve, its just easier to neglect.

Valve Cover Gasket is $25 for the gasket, $5 for a tube of ultra grey, $15 for the grommets, and two hours of your time on your first try.

That's another thing, BMWs are easy to work on compared to a transverse V6.

>drives better
That's just like your opinion man.

It's funny cuz the last bimmerfag I ran into sperging out about his 3 series said the same thing - "takes corners faster." On what streets are these hairpin turns located? They only exist on the track, a place you won't set foot on with 170whp.

Also you can throw and slide the TLS really easily. I know you've seen this video but don't want to comment about how FWD with less power beat AWD and RWD:

>Well, I've heard of people also having experienced the failure with the "ZHP" version, and various other "fixes". I believe the best fix for that problem, which is almost exclusive to the M54B30, is a safety wire, and I think there also was some guy that produced an improved oil pump thing.

>To all BMWs? Nah, not really. But the worst ones are definetly M54. Maybe M52 as well, but havent heard much about it.

>Just because its an easy fix doesnt mean its not an issue with the 330i tho.

>opinion

Its also the opinion of every automotive journalist from the late 1980s to the late 2000s.

>set foot on with 170whp

ZHPs make 205-210whp.

BMWs are one of the most often used cars for amateur road racing/track/autox next to Mazdas, Subarus, and 1990s Civics/Integras. It has a way way bigger knowledgebase and aftermarket for racing, all online. You're more likely to see a E46 than any generation TL on a track for that reason.

IMO the bigger problem with BMWs, for better or worse is that ALL their potential issues are documented online (how it happens and how to fix it).

Its more of a issue with the engine harmonics at high rpms, it works itself loose. S52s in the E36 M3s and M52s get it. Drop the subframe while you do the front LCAs and put a oil pan baffle and reinforced pickup off of a Z3 2.8i. E36 M3s are really known for it just because they have a 6750-7000rpm redline and were frequently tracked. Even then its not GUARANTEED to happen. Some people have never had it happen, other people have dropped the pan on their M3s to find it loose and only holding on by 2-3 threads.

ZHPs supposedly got red loctite already on them being a newer car with a 800rpm higher redline than a regular 330i (from Alpina cams/DME tune/flywheel).

My wife has the 3rd gen TL and the thing just doesn't quit since it is properly maintained. It's literally a tarted up Accord though, so take that as you will.

>Its more of a issue with the engine harmonics at high rpms, it works itself loose.

Pretty much what i've been saying, but English isnt my native language lol.

Engine harmonics/vibrations.

So its pretty much way smaller chance of it happening on X5 and 530i since they will most likely never be driven hard in the same way as a 330i can be driven.

>muh reviewers
I'd rather use price as a determinant for quality and the average used TL costs a lot more then the average used 330i. Gotta be a reason. Not too many people want used BMWs. This is why the supply is high and demand is low. This is why you can't find used 6MT TLS.

>210whp
Nowhere in this universe is an early 2000s BMW losing only 5%hp due to drivetrain. The number you want is 15% and it loses even more when you factor in RWD. It's the equivalent of a BRZ. At least the BRZ weighs less.

>bigger aftermarket for racing than JDM
lmao

Me being curious I decided to look up performance mods for e46 and my conclusion is that bimmerfags are more delusional mustang owners. These forums are claiming up to 11whp from a lightweight pulley (which for the record decreases resistance and allows faster revs much like lightweight wheels, it doesn't "add or free up hp") and 10whp from a fucking CAI:
forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=884584

oh god shoot me now

>Doesn't mention

>Turner Motorsports
>TCKline
>JRZ
>UUC
>Ground Control
>Achillies Motorsports
>BimmerWorld
>Hard Motorsports
>AKG Motorsports
>Vorshlag
>VAC Motorsports
>Rogue Engineering

I can literally go on all day, and these are just the ones I know off the top of my head based in America.

Its not even a contest, like I said the ONLY cars that come close to BMWs in terms of aftermarket and knowledgebase for actual racing/track use are RX7s/Miatas, Subarus, Porsches, Corvettes, Mustangs, and 1990s Civics/Integras.

A BRZ is a great car, fyi. The difference is a 330i is $3-6k and a BRZ is still $18-21k used.

zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?1714-BMW-E46-330-ZHP-and-Non-ZHP-Dyno-graphs

Here, 8 pages worth of dyno sheets. Average being 200-210whp for bone stock cars. German car companies tend to underrate their cars.

Did you even skim through your thread? I was talking about stock and you were talking about modded.

>first dyno 209whp, "somebody elses", unknown mods
>second dyno, guy said 209whp with mods
>dyno on page 3, 193whp with mods
>post 55, guy started at 190whp stock and got up to 210whp with a bunch of mods

Also there's no mention of dynajet or dynapack so I would assume half used jet and the other pack which would give pack users a ~10% boost in hp. That's why there's so many discrepancies. And there was only one stock sheet that I saw at 190whp which confirms the 15% hp loss rule.

All those aftermarket tuners and mods for an extra 20whp lol truly delusional.

anybody else?