Germany not only could/should have been dismantled after losing WWI

>but this honestly seems more the fault of the Cold War U.S. than Hitler,

The US (or the Soviet Union) wouldn't have been nearly as influential if there hadn't been a second world war. The cold war, at least the way it panned out with an ascendant US and Russia, wouldn't have been a thing.

Unwilling yes, unable nope
Germany was in ruins in 1918
It would have been easy as fuck to kill it for good

And there would not have been a Second World War if the First had ended differently, or if the Allies had actually stopped Hitler with the multitudes of chances they were given prior to 1939.

In any actual, meaningful sense, those policies seem to be a result of the 1968 New Left and the U.S. handling of post-war liberalism.

How?

>implying it isn't a product of both liberalism and socialism
>implying that two globalist ideologies having a political hegemony with little to no opposition wouldn't necessarily lead to this

>How?

Divide Germany in many smaller states and enforce it militarily
Germany surrendered unconditionally, it was up to the allies to decide what to make of it

What's funny is that Germany was not the aggressor/amoral during WW1

>Divide Germany in many smaller states and enforce it militarily
And how do you plan on accomplishing this?

>Germany surrendered unconditionally, it was up to the allies to decide what to make of it
And they decided to go for a butthurt-driven peace treaty that they were unwilling to enforce a mere 20 years later.

>And how do you plan on accomplishing this?
You don't seem to realize Germany's situation in 1918
Their economy and their military had collapsed
They were that the mercy of France and Britain
They could have done literally anything to it

>And they decided to go for a butthurt-driven peace treaty that they were unwilling to enforce a mere 20 years later.
That's the issue
Had they really been willing to end the German problem once for all, WW2 wouldnt have occured

>Germany was not the aggressor

This meme again?

>Germany surrendered unconditionally
nope

And again, how are you going to get the other Allies (such as Britain) petty and ass-ravaged enough to destroy Germany?

>Had they really been willing to end the German problem once for all, WW2 wouldnt have occured
Had they been interested in in enforcing their treaty, WW2 wouldn't have occurred. Had they been interested in ensuring Germany underwent a stable transition to liberal republicanism, WW2 wouldn't have occurred. Had they been interested in stopping Hitler when they could have, WW2 wouldn't have occurred.

>people think a screencap tells them everything they need to know about this topic

fuck the wiki generation tbqh

Yeah, your opinion sure is a better source than the table of war declarations
Thank for sharing it

>france spends generations raising children to hate the germans and prepare for revenge
>"ableubleubleu it was ze german savazhes who wanted le war, we are le innocent!!!"

Tired of this meme, 2bh.

>Divide Germany in many smaller states and enforce it militarily

It seems unlikely that France and the UK would devote a large part of their armies to occupy Germany and deal with potential civil unrest when they're focused on maintaining their empires and need most of their military ressources to suppress insurgencies there.

Except it's irrelevant whether the French hated the Germans or not when in the facts it's Germany that attacked France
France tried its best to avoid the war (removed troops from border, didnt jump when Germany invaded Luxembourg, didnt jump like the alliance requited when Germany attacked Russia...etc)

You're forgetting about magical Franco-Polish butthurt. It's powerful enough to destroy discussion on this board, it might be powerful enough to destroy Germany.

Germany revisionism is destroying this thread like it destroyed Europe 70 years ago ("muh stab in the back" lol)

You (and most European empires) were itching for war. The idea that you're some sort of peace-loving, innocent victims is absolutely insane, matched only by the silly notion on this board that Germany is some sort of eternal aggressor, when even a cursory glance at history shows that title belongs to the French.

The only thing destroying anything here is the eternally butthurt "muh destroyurz of yurp" maymay, which has rendered a great deal of remotely sensible discussion almost completely impossible.

I wonder how much historical manipulation there is to these.

America literally joined the war because they intercepted a telegram from "Germany" to Mexico requesting that they attack the states. The brits were trying to draw the yanks into the war from the start. I wouldn't put it past them to forge that telegram to get some fresh meat to charge machine gun fire.

>source

Another wikipedia meme word, this isn't about sources you retard

>table of war declarations

is not enough to be thoroughly informed about the topic, sorry. Not everything can be sufficiently summed up in a few sentences.

The French just drank wine, smoked cigarettes, and spread their butt pussy to the invaders hoping they would have their way, fall asleep, then get bored and leave.

Ebin

>France tried its best to avoid the war

It could have avoided the World War by not backing Russia's involvement in the local conflict between Serbia and Austria

Basically...

>europe is just years away from acheiving a space age imperial utopia that will last a milennia
>suddenly, without warning, the ETERNAL TEUTON (hahaha) emerges from the darkest depths of hell
>for the first time in history, a war is started, entirely by the ETERNAL TEUTON, just for shits and giggles
>poor, sweet, innocent France... France, the eternal beacon of civilization, culture and peace... Poor France, who throughout all of her existence, did nothing but provide light into this dark world... poor sweet innocent beautiful France is RAPED
>for some reason, (possibly le beady eyes man) the ETERNAL TEUTON is spared (even though france and poland could have totally LOLPWNED them)
>Hitler creates SJWs and Multiculturalism

Reminder that this is what Veeky Forums ACTUALLY BELIEVES.

For whatever reason most people sort history into good bad emotional boxes and Veeky Forums seems to do that for everything.

It's not a meme.

I think the German hateboner comes largely from...

>reaction against "germany dindu nuffin" /pol/tard wehraboos that has grown to become equally irksome and autismal
>flagless french and polish posters being able to vent their butthurt without worrying about surrender/plumbing jokes

I actually like France, but it looks disgusting when it blobs into the Rhineland.

>""""""""""natural borders""""""""""

German leadership gave all support to Austro-Hungarian government, and even nudged them to invade Serbia. Fully knowing this will cause an all-out European war. They naively thought UK would stand aside, and that didn't happen. However, they wanted war, and all historical data points to that. The assassination of Ferdinand was simply an excuse to deal with independent slavic states in the Balkans and try to delay the collapse of monarchy. Germans meanwhile wanted to invade as soon as possible, because they believed they would be in inferior position when Russians rearm by 1917.

>flagless french and polish posters

Judging from /int/ and /pol/, Anti-Germanism is pretty much universal these days, it's not only them.

Don't know about the dude itt, but the "Eternal kraut" meme spammer is neither French nor Polish
He operates a lot on /int/ and his flag is British
I think it's some kind of retalition against a German poster who used to spam tons of "Eternal Anglo" threads on /int/ as well

This neglects the context of Russia's guarantees on Serbia and Russia's alliance with France.

Yes, Germany's war plan was the equivalent of a suckerpunch before a boxing match started, but Austria's attack on Serbia meant that match was going to happen suckerpunch or not.
Austria is responsible. Willy still a shit, though, and Germany is not innocent in the creation of the powder keg.

Dont bother, Hans needs scapegoats
If it's not "da joos" it's the evil frogs and poles

The escalation of the war still required some conscious decisions on the part of the Entente, namely the Russian decision to mobilize encouraged by French guarantees.

its merkel

>implying Hans

I just want to discuss German history without you shitters ruining every thread.

You're worse than the Hitlerboos now.

Nobody was 100% responsible for the war but if there's 1 country you can pin it on, it would be Germany because of how poorly the Kaiser was in international affairs

thread is pretty bad seems like a bunch of angry euros I am not partial to either side really

And be threatened with the outcome that Russia might be appalled that France had not followed the terms of the Dual Entente, and might rebuke their alliance? The french would've been suicidal to risk an outcome in which they were isolated once more, and at the mercy of the russians.

There is another date in which France did not comply to their alliance, which was in the Bosnian crisis where they chose to not back Russia, and arguably prevented that a world war be ignited.

However this has made the russians wary, and one more issue of the french not respecting their alliance would've cost them its existence. France this time around was obliged to stick to the treaty.

Don't you think that this time it was on Germany's side to not back A-H's ventures into the Balkans, including enforcing that Austria send a voluntarily aggressive ultimatum.

>Take war plans published by French far-right organization (Action Française) without involvement in government
>Write them as "French War Aims"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Française#First_World_War_and_aftermath_.281914.E2.80.931926.29

That is where the source comes from, as you can see it is from Action Française.

Using that as French War Aims is like taking whatever the US Communist party has to say about foreign affairs and labeling that as US Foreign Policy.

mercy of the germans*

France after the Franco-Prussian war was generally the receiver, not the instigator of the international aggressions. It wasn't the French president visiting german colonies to tell them to revolt

The French guarantees were also tempered by messages directly stating not to escalate anything or provoke Germany. The Olympics are over, stop with the mental gymnastics.

I blame the 'Brief History of Germany' video.

germany should have been balkanized tought

Not supporting Russia in the Bosnian crisis is hardly equivalent to not respecting the alliance as the Franco-Russian pact was of defensive nature. It is true though that the French were unsure whether Russia would really fight with them in a conflict with Germany they decided to support them to the fullest now that Russian interests were at stake. The Germans as well had doubts in the loyalty of their allies btw.

Yes true.

This is why it is hazardous to be enticed to etch anyone as the true culprit in the start of WW1. While the germans did instigate a mere crisis over Serbia into the trigger for a war, their haste in launching this war was in their belief that to strike now would where there would be the most prospects, as letting peace thrive another more year would be nothing short of letting the russians industrialize some more, and letting the french population grow from its economic boom.

Austria-Hungary too was firmly embedded in the belief that a war in which all of the nations of the empire were called upon might fraternalize rhem over a common enemy, and they too were eager to lapse into war for this very reason, and hoped to strangle slav nationalism wirh the extinction of Serbia.

Russia too precipitated itself in foolishly being a overseer to slav nationalism so that it might quiet the humiliation from their war with Japan, and hoped that panslavism might issue them a road to the Straits, which had obssessed them for nearly a century. They then chose to bet everything on Serbia, and were keen enough to protect that even a world war might be birthed from it.

France too, while the most hesitant of those, did rejoice that there finally was a war in which the russians were as involved as they hoped them to, and couldn't bear to let that opportunity slip through their fingers, which is why they couldn't outright declare themselves neutral.

England too bargained that the war might redraw Europe more equally.

The true issue with the start of the war that people omit is that everyone blindly presumed that they would have something to gain from it occurring right at this very moment.

National socialism wasn't reactionary, it was progressive (not in the modern sense). It was all about a new man, a new system and a new world.

The biggest actually reactionary post-WW1 movement was monarchists.

Rome should've totally annihilated the Germans from day one 2bh

>which is why they couldn't outright declare themselves neutral.
This has more to do with Germans dishing out ultimatums asking them to hand over border forts more than anything. "Either you give up all this land with all these defenses set up exactly for the possibility of a WAR WITH GERMANY... or you will have a WAR WITH GERMANY." There was no way for France to declare its neutrality. To do so would be to render itself defenseless against a German attack.

>unification of germany was a good thing and germany should exist
is even stupider.

>with little to no opposition wouldn't necessarily lead to this
Their opposition was each other, you silly billy. They had a cold war over it.

>And how do you plan on accomplishing this?
By giving unequal reparations to each newly formed state.

Let Bavarians pay less than average Hannoverian and you'll see 100 years long divisions being formed in a matter of few months

The "revenge" party had 5% of parliament in 1914.
Not keeping promises is German speciality.

I'm not saying that it was reactionary in the traditional sense. National Socialism and Fascism were basically made to counter the growing presence of marxists in Europe. It also went against the system but for all intents and purposes it was a reaction against the marxists.

Stop whinning about imaginary french and poles and try to browse boards with flags
You'll find out who the real kraut haters are