Are there any economists on here that can tell me how this story ends?

The banks can also stop printing money and fuck everyone over

>businesses who had loans when business was booming get higher interest rates due to no money being printed and given out
>interest can't be paid off anymore, people get laid off, people lose their homes
>the banks just made money off giving loans and taking back properties

why would the banks want to help the economy when they can manipulate it for their own benefit?

>QE prints fucktons of money
>Still didn't print nearly enough to account for the fake money banks claim to have when giving out loans
>Interest owed is to the owners of the bank
They're not letting their own system crash, it doesn't mean the government can print its own money

>tfw the last guy who tried getting the government to be able to print its own money was JFK

God dammit, Veeky Forums, I said NO MEMES. Qualified economists only, please.

No, but it would be extremely painful.

Literally nothing. The US global presence is too big for its economy to collapse. Besides, even if anything really bad happens or jewish global banking masters will just do exactly what they've said they'd do in interviews--print more money until we pay off our debt.
youtube.com/watch?v=jB0lcX-GtOU

our*

And debt/gdp rises to fucking saturn

1. wiping out debt would greatly reduce the value of dollar and probably dethroning it as a go to reserve currency, so at the end of the day this is very unlikely to happen, as it is MUCH more benefitial for US to just increase taxes to finance its debts
2.inflation has nothing to do with freaking full emplyment and BS like that, outside of supply shocks its determined by federal reserve [policy. You alsdo seem to think that inflation and foreign exchange are the same, they are not, although inflation effects the foreign exchange rate.
3, 4 not even sure how that explenation

The real reason the debt is so high is because it can be, in the modern world(not jsut USA) the rate of interest has dropped significatly, making financing and keeping debts at this 'high' levels very sustainable and a new normal. Should the rate of interest raise through some technological change however we might see some real problems.

And no the 'central banks' do not fully control the interest rate and keep it artificially low, they merely respond to what they think the optimal or wicksellian interest rate is and try to mimick it.

the story doesn't have to end.

National debt and GDP will likely continue to multiply by 10x every 50 years until the US falls apart.

>Are there any economists on here that can tell me how this story ends?
>Real economists please, not interested in memes.

Computer scientist here, not an economist, but at least I can interpret patterns.

Look at pic related. it's a log chart.

Barring outliers, these log charts run roughly linear with approximately the same derivative (or slope).

If the slope of the log remains the same on both, we can keep expecting the national debt to rise indefinitely, WITHOUT HARM to anyone. things will be BUSINESS AS USUAL even if the national debt reaches ONE QUADRILLION $ around 2100.

This trend is sustainable as long as major US demographics don't start to shrink.

Things are fine now, aren't they? As long as things stay in a healthy relationship to one another, they can grow or shrink however they want.

WANT TO KNOW MORE? you might find a book about chaos theory interestingly related.

Nothing wrong with this. If inflation is under control its fine. The us dollars have such a high demand in the world and are backed by the great us war machine. Its really okay.

We're at 18 trillion, m8, we'll get there

>The Federal Reserve is a private institution separate from the United States government, it's privately owned

By the US Congress and Executive.

I think the problem is that the average person views debt as a physical toxic debt that exists somewhere.

When in reality, as long as the debt doesn't have to be paid back all at once, it could go on forever as long as society agrees that the US Dollar is worth something.

Notice how you have to pay taxes in US dollars and your employment taxes all have to be denominated in US dollars.

Therefore employers can't really legally pay you in something other than US dollars so people will naturally still view it as valuable for the time being.

Also, keep in mind you go into prison if you don't do this, so this is a motivating factor to get people to value the dollar.

Oddly enough the dollar is still higher than most other countries currency at the moment so even with the highest debt we've ever had, the dollar is still valuable.

Ergo, we could keep going forever as long as the majority of US citizens keep believing in the dollar.

Could always change if something replaces the dollar though.

>2016
>still thinking sovereign debt is like personal debt

I think there's a problem in how you think it's perfectly fine to have debt

>not leveraging debt
>2016
It just so happens that the US has a very large stick to help pry down that debt

qe is not about making more debt really.
what happened is banks had a lot of shit debt that the fed bought with money that never existed in the first place and replaced it with money that never existed in the first place and banks got "healthier" and more stable as a result of this and what happens is the repayment of this nonexistent debt directly goes into the annihilation of wealth caused by burning up the bad debt.

so basically you had bad debt that burned money and you made up money to cover it with a slight of hand that was technically legal to do.

of course qe is only just a part of the rising debt figures.

QE gets rid of debt by causing inflation and boosting GDP

the inflation is the problem, the debt is more or less irrelevant and will remain irrelevant until the national credit rating is affected.

As soon as QE stops, the dollar will appreciate and cancel out devaluation from the national debt

the only real reason to go after the national debt is to issue high interest bonds and T notes to appreciate the USD

1. qe doesnt cause huge inflation, i thinks tudies came up with effects of somewhere at half percent
2. qe did stop

High but manageable, also the economy has changed much since ww2, gdp per capita is higher, if we all lived like people did in the 40s we would have a much larger surplus with which to pay off the debt.

There is also the fact the US can print money and erase debt through inflation, this would adversely affect the economy indirectly and ideally debt shouldn't be taken lightly, but it is not as though China will send bailiffs to take furniture from the white house.

It is fucking ridiculous how the debt is as high as wartime debt even though we live in times of peace right now.

The Dollar is too strong to fall at the moment, when the debt gets too high the dollar will fall because there will be a time where the US will either default on the debt or increase the taxes SKY HIGH to pay for it.
The whole thing is that it is like a household, if you have more leeches than people that put bread on the table you are in for a shitty ride. When everyone contributes a bit (not government jobs, benefits or subsidiary field) then there can be prosperity. See it as your own household. You want to first decrease your expenses as much as possible. And also increase your income as much as possible. When there are right now thousands of imaginary jobs and at least a quartar population of leeches, you are in for a shit ride.Ofcourse there will always be some people well off, or doing ok. But the bottom line is the shit will grow. And government being the middle man will just bring more and more shit. Debt will just continue to go up if the expenses don't get cut(paper pushers get a real job, no more high benefits)

This.

Private debt =/= government debt.

Its private debt which is bad and rising. Not government debt because they can just issue bonds which the central bank will happily pay with money created from nothing.

Lending money to pay of debt does not get rid of the debt. Also any debt is bad unless there is an actual ROI. Which in most cases there is not in the government because they don't produce anything. Also, the debt is rising. And because of this an the rising distrust of US bond investors (for multiple reasons). It can be dangerous because the risk is high when getting debt. I sure as hell would not get any US bonds right now.

Also forgot to tell you, the money ''creation'' you are talking about, it causes inflation.

>WANT TO KNOW MORE? you might find a book about chaos theory interestingly related.
any recommendations?

How scientifically literate are you?

If you're a layperson or not a STEM grad, I recommend "Turbulent Mirror" by F. David Peat and John Briggs as a starting point.

>we live in times of peace
The war is on individual people now that's all. Read Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. There are millions of casualties every day around the world for years but they are not reported. Well they sort of report it, like when some headline says one million people are one paycheck away from financial ruin or whatever, that's like a report on the front line but there are millions ready to replace them when they fall.

Welcome my son, welcome to the machine!

Gross debt doesn't matter, deficits do.

>at full employment
kek

Don't listen to this Krugman fetishist

We live in a virtual Disneyland of speculation and chicanery. The U.S. dollar owes its value somewhat to petrol and mostly to unfettered delusion. The fed & government working together to "fix" (i.e. erase) the fed would strip the delusion away and the economy would go belly up.

Fed needs to raise interest rates and gov needs to slash taxes & spending

>The government has the ability to eliminate its debt because it owes the interest and principal on bonds to itself

Not in America. The Federal Reserve is owned and controlled by its member banks, who own the equity and have a large majority of control in the actions of the Fed. It's a Quasi-govermental organization, not a government organization. There is little the government can control asides from appointments. The government does not own a stake of the equity in the Fed.