Man goes to the doctor, says "Doctor, I need help. I'm depressed because of my reductionist...

>Heisenberg

Why don't you fags ever point to Stephen Hawking who is an atheist?

>we don't understand it, ergo God

Go away.

>quantum physics isn't terribly complicated but at the end of the day

wewlad you must have house full of nobel prizes

An intelligent and enquiring man he is a member of The Pontifical Academy of Sciences

>he thinks you go to heaven if you kill yourself

Heisenberg>Hawking tbeh

humanities was a mistake

>I can’t believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe at large. They seem to be… too simple to conn- too local, too provincial! The Earth! He came to the Earth! One of the aspects of God came to the Earth mind, you. Look at what’s out there! It isn’t in proportion.

>Different religions have all these different theories and you begin to wonder. You start doubting just like you’re supposed to doubt. You ask me if the science is true and we say ‘No, no, we don’t know what’s true, we’re trying to find out, everything is possibly wrong’. Start out understanding religion by saying ‘everything is possibly wrong, let us see.’ As soon as you do that you start sliding down an edge which is hard to recover from… When you doubt and ask it gets a little harder to believe.

>I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it’s much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything. For many things I don’t know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we’re here. … But i don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing things. By being lost in a mysterious universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn’t frighten me.

why wouldn't God come to earth instead of one of the other planets in the galaxy? who the fuck's he going to talk to on Jupiter?

>if you start reading the words "Dark Matter" as "God" shit starts to make a lot of sense

wut

Do you even know what dark matter refers to?

>"""""""""""""""""God"""""""""""""""""

>if you really beleived in god youd just kill yourself because why live in the shitty world if there is infinite heaven for you

>Pointing to plebs like Hawking when there's Newton

Who the fuck is he going to talk to on Earth? Some irrelevant apes?
Why does he even need to "come down"? Those absurd Biblical stories where omniscient God comes down from heaven with his angels to get a closer look at what Middle Easterners are doing, and wrestle or have dinner with some fucking goatherds because why not, is the reason people can't take religions seriously.

Einstein was a pantheist and I picked a physicist that's actually relevant these days and deals with matters such as the origin of the universe. Rather than autistic permavirgins that believed in alchemy.

Who /panentheist/ here?

Nah bro. Pantheism or bust.

If Fermi is correct, then there isn't anyone else to talk to.

If he isn't, there's no way of knowing he didn't talk to others

>Why does he even need to "come down"?
Shock and awe?

>If Fermi is correct
Fermi only noted that it's rather surprising we haven't made contact with extraterrestrials yet. Note that he dismissed all reports of supernatural phenomena as fabrications.

>there's no way of knowing he didn't talk to others
The question is, why would an eternal omnipotent omniscient being talk to us, in the flesh no less?

>Shock and awe?
Yeah well Jacob didn't seem too impressed when he wrestled God for a blessing and whooped his ass so hard God tried to cheat and break his hip and still had to bless him in the end. And some other times no one even noticed he was around.

>The question is, why would an eternal omnipotent omniscient being talk to us, in the flesh no less?
Does an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient being need to justify his actions? I mean, if he is the creator of everything, he created logic itself

>Yeah well Jacob didn't seem too impressed when he wrestled God for a blessing and whooped his ass so hard God tried to cheat and break his hip and still had to bless him in the end
It was an angel. And it was a test of strength

>And some other times no one even noticed he was around.
tests of faith

Man goes to the doctor, says "Doctor, I need help. I'm depressed because of my reductionist, mechanistic view of nature and its inherent meaninglessness". Doctor thinks for a minute. Finally he says "Well, why not try complexity science for a change?". Funny joke everyone laughs.

>Does an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient being need to justify his actions?
Yes, fuck your bullshit.
>he created logic itself
[citation needed]
He is himself subject to logic, otherwise theology is stillborn.

>It was an angel.
[citation needed]
>And it was a test of strength
Why the fuck is God testing the strength of some human? After breaking his hip no less?

>tests of faith
What the fuck do you mean? How is God coming down to Earth to take a closer look, unseen by anyone, a test of faith?

>Yes, fuck your bullshit
Then you do not seem to understand the definition of omnipotent.

If he really is omnipotent, he could make 1+1=3. Not to mention that for him to justify your actions to you would be you justifying your actions to a quark

>[citation needed]
>being that created everything that is
>somehow hasn't created logic

>[citation needed]
If you want the truth the original is man, then Jacob claims it's god before it's settled on angel

>Why the fuck is God testing the strength of some human? After breaking his hip no less?

Again, does the one that created all and is all need to justify himself?

>How is God coming down to Earth to take a closer look, unseen by anyone, a test of faith?

I assumed you were talking about the stuff where people treat him like shit even though they've been told to treat strangers kindly

>logic is something created
No, you moron. It is eternal and exists outside the universe. And God can't make 1+1 = 3 any more than he can make a round square.

>If you want the truth the original is man
The divine being was certainly in the SHAPE of a man.
>then Jacob claims it's god
And as far as we can tell from the passage, he's obviously correct. Besides the Biblical text itself, many translations call this story "Jacob wrestles with God" or "Jacob wrestles at Penuel" (the Face of God, "because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared")
>before it's settled on angel
Hosea wasn't there, yo, and in any case it's pretty clear he used "angel" for poetic reasons
"In the womb [Jacob] grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name"
You can certainly argue that Jacob merely prevailed over one of God's avatars (angels?) or something, but even then it's a ridiculous story. He actually overpowered this divine being, and though it could have probably snapped Jacob's neck as easily as it snapped his hip, it still considered that Jacob "struggled with God and men and overcame."

Oh and should I mention that if you drop this "God doesn't need to justify himself" nonsense you realize the whole episode was a just-so story for why Jacob inherited Israel, why that place is called Penuel and why Jews can't eat that spot where God snapped Jacob's hip, even though it makes no fucking sense.

>No, you moron. It is eternal and exists outside the universe.

proofs

Help me Veeky Forums.
On the one hand, everything about contemporary life leads me to believe in a machinistic reality and yet at the same time to graspt contemporary understandings as only locally true.
Is life really structured and deterministic or is it simply our contemporary perception of it? Of a flow of causes and effects of biological robots making descisions based on identified and certain input?
Should a criminal be examined based on his past? MUST a person be examined based on his past actions or is this structuring pyramidical view of life culture society and human histroy a local reality of contemporary understandings?
Is it possible human life in the future will be much less structured and much more dynamic? Peopel viewed as lines of thought as oppose to individuals with an eniter past thatdetermines their future?
Is a deterministic physicalist view on life a result of some inescapable truth or a limitation of our contemporary view of reality and thus the individual and society?

I'm literally laughing out loud at this post, desu.

You can make logical arguments for why the universe needs a cause or postulate alternate universes where this or that happens. Hell, you claimed that a universe could exist in which God made 1+1 = 3. That's logic, even if it's shit logic.

>No, you moron. It is eternal and exists outside the universe. And God can't make 1+1 = 3 any more than he can make a round square.

See this is where you prove you are as stubborn and no better than the dogmatic cunts you claim to hate. You refuse to consider the possibility in this scenario that I'm presenting to you that if god exists (NOTE: you do not need to believe in god at all for you to consider this, you can continue to be atheist, I'm just explaining shit to you) he would be the creator of all, even logic, therefore unbound by it. If he is the creator of all, then he is the creator of squares, and can make them as round as he pleases.

But no, now you're going to chuckle to yourself as you scratch your neckbeard and post on /r/atheism how you totally rekt this fundie cunt

>Hell, you claimed that a universe could exist in which God made 1+1 = 3

that was someone else my friend

and you still didn't give a reason for logic existing outside the universe

underrated

>you still didn't give a reason for logic existing outside the universe
If you don't see why logical speculation about the origin of the universe or alternate universes indicates logic exists outside of the universe, there is no hope for you.

>god exists
>then he is the creator of all, even logic
>therefore unbound by logic
I'm sorry, but B does not follow from A and does not lead to C.
And you don't even realize "therefore God is unbound by logic" a logical paradox, the worst I've ever seen.

>If you don't see why logical speculation about the origin of the universe or alternate universes indicates logic exists outside of the universe, there is no hope for you.

Please explain how. Speculating about the origin of the universe and alternate universes is still just done by us, in this universe.

>if biblical god exists (which is what we're talking about B T W) then he is creator of all
>logic falls under all
>you cannot be motivated by what didn't even exist then
Your problem is that you're applying our standards to metaphysical beings

>therefore God is unbound by logic" a logical paradox, the worst I've ever seen.
Oh shut up.

If he created logic, then he couldn't have been bound by it at the time, now could have he?

>Oh shut up
That's my line, you incoherent moron. You can't use logic to demonstrate God is unbound by logic, what the fuck is wrong with your brain? You can't even say "God is [anything]" if he is unbound by logic, even the equality/tautology "God is God", because = would not mean anything in his case.

>at the time
Logic is eternal, fucking hell.

I said "there is no hope for you", and I see I wasn't even exaggerating.

>I said "there is no hope for you", and I see I wasn't even exaggerating.

Wow you really convinced me with this arguement

It's not an argument.

>You can't even say "God is [anything]" if he is unbound by logic, even the equality/tautology "God is God", because = would not mean anything in his case.
Wow, you're finally fucking getting what means to be OMNIpotent.

>Logic is eternal, fucking hell.
Proof?

If it's so simple to understand it must be simple to explain

>Wow, you're finally fucking getting what means to be OMNIpotent.
No I can't, since he's apparently unbound by logic, so we shouldn't be able to deduce anything about God, including that we can't deduce anything about him. Oops, it seems this logical paradox is a contaminant. Best dump this line of reasoning at the bottom of the sea with the other toxic waste.

>Logic is eternal
>Proof?
Either logic is eternal or nothing is eternal. Trying to prove me wrong would be self-defeating since I could then postulate that at some point in time, your proof didn't work and therefore logic was then eternal, and if something is ever eternal it's eternal for all time by definition and can you please stop spewing logical paradoxes everywhere?

Pantheism (and panentheism for that matter) are literally just fedora-tier beliefs for STEMlords who wish they actually knew anything about philosophy but are '2smart' 4 lame stupid conventional pleb religion.

Prove me wrong.

Hey guys, why doesn't god come down and break the hip of the winner?

Why doesn't god come down at all?

Why did he only do it in unproveable biblical times?

Shit... Well the bible says some stuff so let's believe that eh

"we don't understand it yet" is different from "we may not ever understand it because it lies beyond comprehension"

no like most normal people I took class on quantum physics and now I have an understanding of quantum physics

getting to a place is a lot easier when the road's already built

yes

psychiatrists are literally doctor-shamans

>so we shouldn't be able to deduce anything about God,
Wow it's like it's like a FAITH or something

>muh logical paradoxes
I have come to the conclusion that you are most likely a mid to high functioning autist

Alchemy is real tho

I have also read The Watchmen by Alan Moore.

>Wow it's like it's like a FAITH or something
Then stop pretending to use logic. Either God is outside the bounds of logic (whatever that means) or you're too fucking stupid to use logic (my pick) but in any case it's futile for you to try to offer a logical defense of God's erratic behavior. Yes, I charitably counted "God is omnipotent so it follows that he's above logic" as a logical argument in this context.

>muh logical paradoxes
Yeah well you could avoid saying shit like "logic is not eternal" or "therefore logic does not apply" because that makes me want to rip my brains out. Those aren't just paradoxes, they're meta-paradoxes. They're toxic.
>I have come to the conclusion that you are most likely a mid to high functioning autist
I have come to the conclusion that you're a fucking moron who can't even follow his own "logic."

What's the point in arguing anymore?

No matter who's right, we still lose. This world and everything in it is doomed, one way or another. Everyone says this. Every religion has an apocalypse, and every astronomer knows the sun will flicker and die within a cosmic blink.

The only way out would be for literally everyone to be wrong, from the most ancient shamans to the most advanced scientific instruments. The very idea that things must end would have to be wrong.

if you start reading the words "thunderstorm" as "Thor" shit starts to make a lot of sense

>Muh philosophy secrit club

I still can't understand exactly the difference between the two.