"by a miracle, the bread and wine turns into the actual, literal, blood and flesh of Jesus Christ...

Some monasteries only allow the Great Schema in death, as for your funeral clothes.It's difficult to reach in life because they don't monks getting puffed with those clothes, but those who do attain the Great Schema in life are extremely humble, quite, and fast beyond even the levels of regular monks. They never leave the monastery with being asked to by their bishop.

they don't *want

*quiet

*without being asked to

L A N C I A N O

>Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26

>Great Schema

Talk about being a useless parasite.

Well at least you're fully aware of how retarded you appear. That's all we can ask for really.

Monks are probably the only real communists, since they take Acts 2:44. They aren't parasites, they labor very hard and generally are self-sufficient. They don't use money. Saint John Chrysostom, when asked what should be the difference between a married man and a monk, said one should be married. Monks are the ones who keep very seriously to the original Christian lifestyle, which is why in Orthodoxy they are so highly regarded.

>child sex abuse scandal
Reminder that according to the John-Jay-Report, 80.9% of the abuse victims in the United States were male; and a study by Dr. Thomas Plante found the number may be as high as 90%.

The issue is the mental illness of homosexuals.

We are aware.1 Corinthians 4:10

Look up Saint Basil the Fool

>Lanciano
>believing in some purported miraculous account from the 8th century CE

Are you fucking serious? Know full well the penchant that Medieval people had for exaggerating and outright fabricating stories and accounts, you present this as your "proof" that transubstantiation is real?

Man, Christcucks are dumb.

No, the issue was covering it up and playing musical chairs with priests who abused boys.

>ignoring all the studies that have been conducted

They hurt the dignity of the human race by existing, observe

Reminder that the fucking mods will delete and ban anyone who attacks atheism but lets this shit fly.

This is a history board, if you want to yammer on about magic go back to /x/

Not him but I'll show you magic my nu-male friend.

Orthocucks, where can I find a youtube video, podcast with hard preaching like pastor Anderson by one of your priests, one that is critical of the modern world and talks about current events?

Read "Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age". It critiques everything about modernism, from art to democracy

But you can skip the preface, which isn't by the author

oodegr.co/english/filosofia/nihilism_root_modern_age.htm

Reminder that you are less skeptical than a medieval bishop if you believe in this shit.

>nu-male friend.
?

They are "not hurting anyone" because they are being squashed beneath the boot of secularism. The moment we "leave them alone" they will make their savagery evident.

>studies

There is no testimony that the monk's story was backed up by worshippers. When one goes back, the earliest account of the event is an inscription that dates from 1631 that tells the story. It cannot be proved that the miracle happened in the 8th century. There is no half-decent evidence.

The blood has clumped. It has not stayed fresh. Looking at the 'flesh', one can see that that it has rotted away in the middle. What is left is something that is clearly mummified.

Additionally, the one and only study performed in 1970 was never accepted for inclusion in peer reviews.The doctor, Linoli, stated a number of lies as well, concerning the study he performed. He claimed hat the "preservation was inexplicable and the flesh and blood were not taken from a corpse as they would have decayed fast." But this is a lie as well, since parts of the body can be mummified and preserved. In his report he talked about "the Miraculous tissue" and "the Miraculous heart fragment". It has not been proven that the flesh is miraculous in origin. Even if its preservation is strange, the preservation was extremely poor,.

The alleged report by WHO which backed up his findings cannot be found anywhere. Does it exist?

Nah man I need something to listen to while I study for a test. I'll save that to read later though.

The work explains, among other things, how Nietzsche's attempt to provide an atntidote to nihilism, is ultimately sublated by nihilist dialectic and simply becomes an inoculation for it against attempts to dismantle nihilism

youtube.com/watch?v=EZKocFGQf24
youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8AF7i9A3U

Summary of scientific and historical evidence supporting the authenticity of the Shroud:
newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

Shroud-like coloration of linen by nanosecond laser pulses in the vacuum ultraviolet (it explains that they replicated the shroud's qualities using laser pulsations, which so far is the only way anyone has been able the replicate the shroud's qualities):
sindone.info/DILAZZA3.pdf

Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of Turin:
shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF

Nuclear imaging:
shroud.com/pdfs/whanger.pdf
shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf

Raymond N. Rogers' observations and conclusions:
shroudnm.com/docs/2013-01-10-Yannick-Clément-Reflections-on-Ray-Rogers-Shroud-Work.pdf

Also, here's some secular peer-reviewed scientific journal articles on the Shroud of Turin:
shroud.typepad.com/topics/2005/10/secular_peerrev.html

haha what the fuck
this board is too much

>we were only pretending to be retarded
>you're the real idiot for pointing it out
Always a pleasure, Constantine.

>lying
Even atheist wiki disagrees with you.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Lanciano#Investigations

The Turin shroud is a forgery from the 13th century... It was already proven in 1988 by carbon-dating testing from three world-renowned laboratories.

Get with the times.

You might try this: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/freeman/history_post_modernism_and_orthodoxy

Trip on Constantine.

Otherwise p good posts t b h

The 1988 Carbon-14 tests done at Oxford, Zurich and Arizona Labs used pieces of the same sample cut from a corner.

1. A paper published in Jan 20, 2005 in the journal Thermochimica Acta by Dr. Ray Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and lead chemist with the original STURP science team (the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project, involving approximately 35 scientists directly examining the Shroud for five days), has shown conclusively that the sample cut from The Shroud of Turin in 1988 was taken from an area of the cloth that was re-woven during the middle ages. Here are some excerpts:

"Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area, coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations, prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud."

"As part of the Shroud of Turin research project (STURP), I took 32 adhesive-tape samples from all areas of the shroud and associated textiles
in 1978." "It enabled direct chemical testing on recovered linen fibers and particulates".

"If the shroud had been produced between 1260 and 1390 AD, as indicated by the radiocarbon analyses, lignin should be easy to detect. A linen produced in 1260 AD would have retained about 37% of its vanillin in 1978...The Holland cloth, and all other medieval linens, gave the test [i.e. tested positive] for vanillin wherever lignin could be observed on growth nodes. The disappearance of all traces of vanillin from the lignin in the shroud indicates a much older age than the radiocarbon laboratories reported."

(1/2)

"The fire of 1532 could not have greatly affected the vanillin content of lignin in all parts of the shroud equally. The thermal conductivity of linen is very low... therefore, the unscorched parts of the folded cloth could not have become very hot." "The cloth's center would not have heated at all in the time available. The rapid change in color from black to white at the margins of the scorches illustrates this fact." "Different amounts of vanillin would have been lost in different areas. No samples from any location on the shroud gave the vanillin test [i.e. tested positive]." "The lignin on shroud samples and on samples from the Dead Sea scrolls does not give the test [i.e. tests negative]."

"Because the shroud and other very old linens do not give the vanillin test [i.e. test negative], the cloth must be quite old." "A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000- years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years."

"A gum/dye/mordant [(for affixing dye)] coating is easy to observe on...radiocarbon [sample] yarns. No other part of the shroud shows such a
coating." "The radiocarbon sample had been dyed. Dyeing was probably done intentionally on pristine replacement material to match the color of the older, sepia-colored cloth." "The dye found on the radiocarbon sample was not used in Europe before about 1291 AD and was not common until more than 100 years later."

"Specifically, the color and distribution of the coating implies that repairs were made at an unknown time with foreign linen dyed to match the older original material." "The consequence of this conclusion is that the radiocarbon sample was not representative of the original cloth."

(2/3)

No, Christians are not only pretending, but actually fools, by the world's standards for believing in Christianity. If you are not prepared to be an utter and abject fool in the world, you are not prepared to be an Orthodox Christian

"The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth. The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud."

"A significant amount of charred cellulose was removed during a restoration of the shroud in 2002." "A new radiocarbon analysis should be done on the charred material retained from the 2002 restoration."

Raymond N. Rogers. 20 January 2005. Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin. Thermochimica Acta, Vol. 425, Issue 1-2, Pages 189-194.

2. The Fire-Model Tests of Dr. Dmitri Kouznetsov in 1994 and Drs. John Jackson and Propp in 1998, which replicated the famous Fire of 1532,
demonstrated that the fire added carbon isotopes to the linen.

Dmitri Kouznetsov, Andrey Ivanov, Pavel Veletsky. 5 January 1996. Effects of fires and biofractionation of carbon isotopes on results of radiocarbon dating of old textiles: the Shroud of Turin. Journal of Archaeological Science, Volume 23, Issue 1, Pages 109-121. doi:10.1006/jasc.1996.0009

Jackson, John P. and Propp, Keith. 1997. On the evidence that the radiocarbon date of the Turin Shroud was significantly affected by the 1532 fire. Actes du III Symposium Scientifique International du CIELT, Nice, France.

(3/3)

newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Lanciano#Investigations

Why would I count investigations conducted by clergy-men who had no medical or scientific training? I only count Linoli's investigation since he at least was a physician, and even then, he was a hack.

Consider that there are no reliable cited sources for the claims on Wikipedia. One out of two citations is a dead link. Way to go.

I took my trip off because I've been told it's obnoxious

New experiments date the Shroud of Turin to the 1st century AD. They comprise three tests; two chemical and one mechanical. The chemical tests were done with Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and Raman spectroscopy, examining the relationship between age and a spectral
property of ancient flax textiles. The mechanical test measured several micro-mechanical characteristics of flax fibers, such as tensile strength.

The results were compared to similar tests on samples of cloth from between 3250 BC and 2000 AD whose dates are accurately known. FTIR identifies chemical bonds in a molecule by producing an infrared absorption spectrum. The spectra produce a profile of the sample, a distinctive molecular fingerprint that can be used to identify its components. Raman Spectroscopy uses the light scattered off of a sample as opposed to the light absorbed by a sample. It is a very sensitive method of identifying specific chemicals.

The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates:

FTIR = 300 BC ± 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC ± 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD ± 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty.

The average of all three dates is 33 BC ± 250 years (the collective uncertainty is less than the individual test uncertainties). The average date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus’ death on the cross in 30 AD, and is far older than the medieval dates obtained with the flawed Carbon-14 sample in 1988. The range of uncertainty for each test is high because the number of sample cloths used for comparison was low; 8 for FTIR, 11 for Raman, and 12 for the mechanical test.

The scientists note that “future calibrations based on a greater number of samples and coupled with ad hoc cleaning procedures could significantly improve its accuracy, though it is not easy to find ancient samples adequate for the test.”

(1/2)

It's a proven forgery. Only Christians continue to revisit the issue for cheap shots to advertise their faith, whereas respectable scientists and academics no longer bother with something that was confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt to have been a Medieval forgery.

They used tiny fibers extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana, who gave them to Fanti. Riggi passed away in 2008, but he had been involved in the intensive scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin by the STURP group in 1978, and on April 21, 1988 was the man who cut from the Shroud the thin 7 x 1 cm sliver of linen that was used for carbon dating.

These tests were carried out in University of Padua laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua’s engineering faculty. He co-authored reports of the findings in 1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, “Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy” by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70; 2) a paper titled “A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud” by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and 3) the 2013 book “Il Mistero della Sindone” (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.

(2/2)

newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

Please, put it back.
It helps us filter you.

The way you post and structure your arguments make you immediately identifiable every time. Though, if nothing else, at least you aren't Sakurahime, I'll give you that much.

>talking out of your butt

See This paradigm assumes that the radiocarbonists’ claim that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century forgery is correct. It is based on what that conclusion tells us about the forger. It tells us that:

1. The forger first painted the bloodstains before he painted the image.

2. The forger integrated forensic qualities to his image that would only be known 20th century science.

3. The forger duplicated blood flow patterns in perfect forensic agreement to blood flow from the wrists at 65° from vertical to suggest the exact crucifixion position of the arms.

4. The forger "painted" the blood flows with genuine group AB blood that he had "spiked" with excessive amounts of bilirubin since the forger knew that severe concussive scourging with a Roman flagrum would cause erythrocyte hemolysis and jaundice.

5. The forger "plotted" the scourge marks on the body of the "man in the shroud" to be consistent under forensic examination with two scourgers of varying height.

6. The forger also duplicated abrasion and compression marks on the scourge wounds of the shoulders to suggest to 20th century forensic examiners that the "man in the shroud" had carried a heavy weight following the scourging.

7. The forger, against all convention of medieval artistry, painted the body he was "hoaxing" as Jesus of Nazareth, nude to conform to genuine Roman crucifixions.

Imagine living your one human life being so mind controlled by the forces around you that you go to such unreasonable lengths to prove to yourself of some crank theory to justify your already insane superstitions.

There's no other word for it than pathetic.

>proven forgery
in your dreams

8. The forger, as the forensic genius he was, illustrated the nails of crucifixion accurately through the wrists rather than the hands as in all other conventional medieval representations. He also took into account that the thumbs of a crucified victim would rotate inward as a result of median nerve damage as the nails passed through the spaces of Destot.

9. The forger was clever enough to "salt" the linen with the pollens of plants indigenous only to the environs of Jerusalem in anticipation of 20th century palynological analysis.

10. The forger was an artist who surpassed the talents of all known artists to the present day, being able to "paint" an anatomically and photographically perfect human image in a photographic negative manner, centuries before photography, and be able to do so without being able to check his work, close up, as he progressed.

11. The forger was able to paint this image with some unknown medium using an unknown technique, 30-40 feet away in order to discern the shadowy image as he continued.

12. The forger was clever enough to depict an adult with an unplaited pony-tail, sidelocks and a beard style consistent with a Jewish male of the 1st century.

13. The forger thought of such minute details as incorporating dirt from the bare feet of the "man in the shroud" consistent with the calcium carbonate soil of the environs of Jerusalem.

14. This forger was such an expert in 20th century biochemistry, medicine, forensic pathology and anatomy, botany, photography and 3-D computer analysis that he has foiled all the efforts of modern science. His unknown and historically unduplicated artistic technique surpasses all great historical artists, making the pale efforts of DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Raphael and Botticelli appear as infantile scribblings.

The image on the Shroud is of a man 5 feet 10 ½ inches tall, about 175 pounds, covered with scourge wounds and blood stains. Numerous surgeons and pathologists (including Dr. Frederick Zugibe (Medical Examiner - Rockland, New York), Dr. Robert Bucklin (Medical Examiner - Las Vegas, Nevada), Dr. Herman Moedder (Germany), the late Dr. Pierre Barbet (France), and Dr. David Willis (England)) have studied the match between the Words, Weapons and Wounds, and agree that the words of the New Testament regarding the Passion clearly match the wounds depicted on the Shroud, and that these wounds are consistent with the weapons used by ancient Roman soldiers in Crucifixion.

Specifically, the scourge marks on the shoulders, back, and legs of the Man of the Shroud match the flagrum (Roman whip) which has three leather thongs, each having two lead or bone pellets (plumbatae) on the end. The lance wound in the right side matches the Roman Hasta (4cm x 1 cm spear wound). Iron nails (7" spikes) were used in the wrist area (versus the palms as commonly depicted in Medieval art). These marks, combined with the capping of thorns which is not found anywhere else in crucifixion literature of ancient Roman (Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger) or Jewish (Flavius Joesphus, Philo of Alexandria) historians create a unique signature of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

>"In 1988, scientists at three separate laboratories dated samples from the Shroud to a range of AD 1260–1390, which coincides with the first certain appearance of the shroud in the 1350s and is much later than the burial of Jesus."

It's a forgery. Go shit up another thread.

The Shroud of Turin’s images are superficial and fully contained within a thin layer of starch fractions and saccharides that coats the outermost fibers of the Shroud. The color is a caramel-like substance, probably the product of an amino/carbonyl reaction. Where there is no image, the carbohydrate coating is clear. There is also a very faint image of the face on the reverse side of the Shroud of Turin which lines up with the image on the front of the cloth. There is no image content between the two superficial image layers indicating that nothing soaked through to form the image on the other side.

Until recently, it was widely believed that the images on the Shroud of Turin were produced by something which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the linen fibers. This is incorrect. The coating, whether imaged or clear, can be reduced with diimide or removed with adhesive leaving clear cellulose fiber.

The images as they appear on the Shroud of Turin are said to be negative because when photographed the resulting negative is a positive image.

The Turin Shroud was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, lasermicroprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing. No evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist’s media was found anywhere on the Shroud of Turin.

>*starts sweating*
>b-b-better ignore all this startling info
>b-b-bet meme on him
>b-b-better go smug
>th-that'll show him
Nice try kid but it isn't a forgery. See In 2002, a team of experts did restoration work, such as removing the patches from 1534 and replacing the backing cloth. One of the specialists was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg. She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment.

The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD.

This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.

Look. Do you understand the history of relics during the 1300's?

Basically, they were a draw to pilgrims that donated lots of money to the Church that had the tooth of a stain, piece of the true cross, thorns from the crown of thorns, and so on.

Really all this shit couldn't be legit. In fact many Churches would buy and sell these things and even steal relics from each other in competition.

So given this, the simplest explanation was this was another holy relic that just came into being during the middle ages to earn more money for the Church.

Max Frei, a Swiss police criminologist who initially obtained pollen from the shroud during the STURP investigation stated that of the 58 different types of pollens found, 45 were from the Jerusalem area, while 6 were from the eastern Middle East, with one pollen species growing exclusively in İstanbul, and two found in Edessa, Turkey.

Holy Shroud's blood test results? AB-
Sudarium of Oviedo's blood test results? AB-
Lanciano’s Eucharistic Miracle's blood test results? AB-

AB- = 1% of the population

Pic related.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country

If you read the ''Studies'' part of the Sudarium of Oviedo's article on Wiki, you'll read:

>The cloth has been dated to around 700 AD by radiocarbon dating.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarium_of_Oviedo#Studies

But if you look at the source (pdf below) provided in the ''Notes'' which is supposed to support that statement, you'll read:

>The sample from the Sudarium was dated to around 700 AD. Scientist César Barta spoke about the carbon dating process, emphasising the fact that if carbon dating is always absolutely accurate, then we could just as well finish the congress there and then. However, there were several points to bear in mind – in specialist carbon dating magazines, about half the samples dated come up with the expected date, around 30% with an “acceptable” date, and the other 20% is not what one would expect from archaeology.

>The laboratory used (via the National Museum in Madrid) said they were surprised by the result and asked if the cloth was contaminated with any oil based product, as oil is not cleaned by the laboratory processes used before carbon dating and if oil is present on a sample, the date produced by carbon dating is in fact the date of contamination. Finally, the history of the Sudarium is very well established and there are definite references to its presence in Jerusalem in AD 570 and at the beginning of the fifth century.

>As has already been mentioned, there are definite references to the Sudarium’s presence in Jerusalem in the 5th and 6th centuries, two hundred years before the carbon 14 date.

shroud.com/pdfs/n65part6.pdf

Gee! I wonder why the person who wrote the wiki article didn't include that additional information!

Anyways, keep getting all your info from dishonest wiki articles, Mr. History Buff.

It's a forgery, you deluded Christcuck.

Look. Do you know anything about the Holy Shroud other than that a bogus test from the 80s ( ) claims it's a "forgery"? I don't think so.

Repeating this won't change the facts, kiddo.

Problems for the forgery theory:

The scourge marks on the Shroud are physiologically accurate. When examined under a microscope, each scourge mark reveals a slightly depressed center and raised edges. Under ultraviolet light each scourge mark can be seen to have a "halo" of lighter colour surrounding it. These halos were chemically tested and found to be blood serum which is left behind after a blood clot forms and then retracts inwards as it dries, a process called syneresis. These scourge mark indented centres and raised edges on the Shroud are not visible to the naked eye, but can only be seen when examined under a microscope and the serum halos can only be seen under ultraviolet light. This is further evidence that the Shroud could not have been created by an artist in the Middle Ages, or earlier, because that knowledge about blood clot structure, let alone a microscope and an ultraviolet light source to see it, did not then exist for many centuries into the future.

Each one of the over 100 scourge wounds on the Shroud matches exactly what would have been caused by a type of Roman flagrum buried in the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in AD 79. So a fourteenth century or earlier forger would have had to possess a faultless archaeological knowledge of a first century Roman scourging with a flagrum as well as make no normal artists' mistakes since each one of the over 100 scourge marks has identical dimensions. Only from the Middle Ages did artists depict the scourging of Jesus and even the best of them were vague about the details. But the scourge-marks on the Shroud are depicted with a realism that is unknown to the art of any period.

Pic related, "Flagellation of Christ" by Duccio di Buoninsegna (c. 1255-1319). "The scourge marks are represented as red dribbles all over the body, including the arms but not the legs".

The theory that the portion that was dated was taken from a medieval repair has no basis. The repair would have had to have been stitch perfect. We aren't even capable of making such a repair today.

I actually think the shroud is really interesting but the 1988 dating can't be thrown out so easily. Any possible contamination would have also only made a difference of a few centuries.

Agnostic art historian Thomas de Wesselow states:

>"Once again, though, it [the Shroud] differs dramatically from anything envisaged in the Middle Ages. The vast majority of medieval images of the dead or dying Christ fail to depict any scourge marks at all ... Christ is sometimes shown bleeding in depictions of the flagellation, but the effect is always rather crude. In Duccio's rendering of the scene, for example, the scourge marks are represented as red dribbles all over the body, including the arms but not the legs ...The artist displays no knowledge of the Roman flagrum, nor any conception of how it was wielded. Even a fifteenth-century artist as accomplished as Jean Colombe, who definitely knew the Shroud, was unable to reproduce its convincing pattern of scourge marks ... To attribute the marks on the Shroud to a provincial unknown working in the mid fourteenth century is therefore ridiculous"

Pic related, "Man of Sorrows" by Jean Colombe (c. 1430-1493). "Colombe, who definitely knew the Shroud, was unable to reproduce its pattern of scourge marks."

Moreover, the medieval or earlier forger would have had to use goniometry, the science of calculating angles, to correctly work out the angle of each one of the over 100 scourge marks on the Shroud, but the first goniometer was not invented until 1780.

In conclusion, the pattern of scourge wounds on the Shroud correlates remarkably closely with the Gospels' description of the scourging of Jesus[64] and with what has, since the fourteenth century, been discovered by modern archaeology about first century Roman scourging.

Read the thread.

Forgot source, taken from one of the scientists who did the dating.

journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/viewFile/1254/1259

Why did it not have any history before the 14th century?

Shouldn't the Pope owned this? I mean you got the death shroud of Jesus. Shouldn't that be on display in a palace or something?

I mean at least the Crusaders had a legit story about the piece of the true Cross.

The shroud just shows up at a time when hawking relics was a big deal and lucrative business.

...

How about fuck you, you dismissed the 1988 dating by referencing this same bunk theory. The dating may be incorrect but it's not because the portion taken was from a repair.

>le medieval ppl faked it!
>how? idk lol xD

It was brought back to Europe from the Holy Land. See:

Wait there's blood on the shroud? Why not clone?

Shhh, no tears only dreams now.

Read the source I posted, he addresses the likelihood of the portion being a repair patch.

Yeah it's really mysterious and fascinating. However, the fact that we aren't sure how it was created doesn't mean the alternative explanation, that Jesus radiated divine energy to burn the image in the cloth? I'm not actually sure what the alternative explanation is. Anyway, the point being is that such an explanation is even more unlikely. If we're to use occams razor we still lean in favor of it being a forgery.

Aristotelian Metaphysics.

Has anyone thought that maybe this could be anyone's burial shroud? There were hundreds of crucifixions.
Probably even in the middle ages there were dudes with mustaches getting whipped and then crucified somewhere.
The idea that this one must be Jesus seems like wishful thinking.
Now I gotta wonder in the first place, pretend you are right and it's Jesus's shroud.
Even in the best case scenario, congratulations you found a relic.
Now what? Who gives a shit about relics anyway honestly, are you some cultist that you clutch at scraps of cloth?
I don't get this fascination with mysticism.

There'a some real selective reporting going on here. For example, the claim that the pollen on the shroud matches what should be found in Jesus' theoretical tomb. Okay, but is that the only pollen type found? Are there any other types of pollen from different locations? If the shroud was on public display for centuries then contamination from plenty of locales should be on it, including that which would be brought from pilgrims from Judea. So is that pollen exclusive or one of many samples?

See this webm >forgery
I'll take you seriously if you can explain If not then you might as well deny that 9/11 ever happened.

Christ truly rose from the dead, user.

>tl:dc I don't want to be here so I'll make a scene

>muh gay marriage
>muh condoms
>muh abortions

KYS

It could just be some random guy's, possibly. But we've never discovered one that looks like this. It could just be bad luck, maybe we'll find the Roman dumping ground of burial shrouds and realize that something to do with the materials used led to these images being imprinted on the shrouds.

But so far, nope. This is the only one. There's no way we're aware of that an image like this could form on a burial shroud just laying on a corpse.

Well shit.

Now I just have to figure out which of the hundreds of versions of Christianity is the right one.

I don't like those odds tbqh.

>anyone's
See >Now what?
Atheist nu-males love to claim "there's no evidence" but here we have actual physical evidence that He rose from the dead. See this webm

>What, then, is the Sacrament of the Altar? Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine, which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink.

Not an expert on medieval art or textiles so I can't. However, we certainly can't make the conclusion that Jesus rose from the dead based on this burial shroud. You know that so I'm not sure why you're stirring up shit.

Please tell me what nu-males have to do with anything.

Haha ok so I watched the webm. What exactly does this prove? You'll have to explain.

>hundreds of versions of Christianity
Those hundreds (thousands actually) of versions of Christianity = protestant
Protestantism = the modern version of ancient heretical gnostic sects but much more cancerous

Join the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which Christ founded Himself.

Start by studying Church history if you have doubts.

>Why would I count investigations conducted by clergy-men who had no medical or scientific training?
Because they recruited people with that training for the research, you pillock.

>here's the burial shroud of some ancient Jew
>therefore Christ has risen from the dead

>Christ truly rose from the dead, user.
lol whatever

Maybe the forger engineered a whipped and crucified dead body and then preserved it since he knew what a racket relics were.

>when Christians try to bandwagon on pol memes
Wait I thought you faggots elevate faith above reason to justify your religion, and now you are celebrating your phoney "evidence", which is it.

What probably happened is that some criminal was to be executed and a monk offered him time off of purgatory in exchange for using his body to product a relic. Stuff like nails through the wrists instead of hands would be a matter of practicality of actually successfully recreating a crucifixion.

>the materials used led to these images being imprinted on the shrouds
Read It shows you what happened.

>Start by studying Church history if you have doubts.

That's kind of a broad suggestion.