Prove to me democracy, taxing the wealthy / raising the minimum wage, is a good idea

>(see how that works)
yeah, you're unemployed.

>Are they forcing you to take a job?
you could take welfare I guess. im sure anyone else with a job will enjoy that one.

>yeah, you're unemployed.
Funny projection. Nah, I started a shitty job receiving little and worked my way up. I gained experience and my time became more value. Most employers do not want to fuck you over, they hire you what you are worth.

Some shitty 25 year old scum that has worked the job one week is not worth more than $7/h. Sorry.

>you could take welfare I guess. im sure anyone else with a job will enjoy that one.
Read above. If you think the solutions to getting more money, rather than working harder and earning higher pay, is simply complaining and crying about it-- blaming the employer. There is something wrong with you. Pretty much against Capitalism.

>Nah, I started a shitty job receiving little and worked my way up
you didnt get a job, learn to read retard.

>Read above.
so you took welfare, nice.

>you didnt get a job
>you took welfare
2 replies and you already resorted to simply projections and ad hominids.

Anyone else want to try?

Like I said: (you cant)

>makes shit up
>thinks he won the argument because he made shit up.
good try retard

You've had some time to Google. Come on bud, try no projections this time?

Explain how you're doing any better to the unemployed by not even offering them a job, than someone offering them a job.

>Explain how you're doing any better to the unemployed by not even offering them a job, than someone offering them a job.
I'm not scamming them.

To start I think our current tax rates for the mid six figure income ranges are too high. That being said...
If you make 10M a year, the economic stability and societal externalities associated with a more progressive tax structure exceed the cost of the taxes. If you plan on reinvesting this into the market or making some M&A/private placements, you are going to have a greater chance at success because
a)your customers in the consumer and public sector will be better capitalized as a result of government bux, and will be more willing to invest.
b) the market will be more receptive to higher valuation multiples and investment appreciation in an inflationary environment (which is not something George Bush did a good job creating with his abysmal fiscal policy), which is obviously good for the wealthy owner of said business.

TL;DR, if you have enough to live your entire life many times over, stability and consumer buying power is worth more than some tax cuts, which are really meant to incentivize people who haven't made it yet. Plus, these wealthy taxpayers can handle it.

Source: poorfag who works with rich developers/investors.

a) they don't have to accept the job
b) you're not even offering a job. they are offering them money, you're offering them nothing. If they are scamming, you are stealing.

The problem is the wealthy should be taxed equally to everyone else. If everything wasn't so fucking expensive, factories and employees wouldn't need to be in China or India. Jobs could be moved here, businesses would have more revenue, etc. etc

The government is the problem here

>The government is the problem here
well you got half of it right.

the government + the kikes are the problem.

>factories and employees wouldn't need to be in China or India.
wait, quick question:

which do you think costs businesses more, labor or taxes?

I begin to suspect you're actually an idiot trying to justify your idiotic beliefs to yourself. Which is a real surprise on Veeky Forums....

>factories and employees wouldn't need to be in China or India. Jobs could be moved here

But they wouldn't.

Why would someone increase their labor and PPE costs just because their tax basis goes down?

A fucking idiot, thats who.

None of those jobs are coming back, the "more blue collar jobs" argument is a pathetic meme.

Poor people are stupid and don't know how to negotiate a fair income. This is why minimum wage exists.

>these wealthy taxpayers can handle it
The wealthy are currently paying around 33% of their net income.

The misconception that "they're rich, 33% is nothing to them" is silly. That 33% damages the economy.

In order to keep their business running and expanding, they need more funds. The solution is to not make the poor richer by making the rich poorer- that does not solve anything. You need the rich to invest in the market and keep the economy growing strong.

>That 33% damages the economy.
we need some of that for the military, without that we don't have an economy.

we also need some of that for schools and other shit.

what we dont need it for is social security and medicare as both of those are just pyramid schemes at this point.

in practice the opposite is true.

if you take more of my income in taxes I will just make more income.

so raising my taxes causes me to expand so long as I can borrow to do it.

They're the only things stopping the mob from taking everything you own and then raping your family in front of you.

Hiring is very expensive. A $15/h employee costs more around $20/h when accounting payroll taxes, etc.

However taxes are also an incredibly large blow to a businesses expenses obviously since they take a third of the revenue.

I don't want to be offensive at all, but someone like you and I paying 4 digits/m in taxes and complaining about millionaires helping the economy, hiring people, and still needing to pay 33% of their total income in taxes is very, very sad.

Taxes pay for infrastructure and programs that everybody uses.

A single person/family can only spend a certain maximum amount on necessities. After that, almost all purchases are wants and luxuries. A person who makes more can afford to be taxed more while not losing out on too many luxuries.

A prosperous society is generally well educated and healthy. It also allows ease of business. You cannot have these without the necessary infrastructure. As well, healthy, educated adults tend to be more productive.

By taxing more those who make more, the government is able to better educate and take care of all citizens and provide adequate infrastructure to improve the flow of business and bring down the base cost of entry for businesses. This makes it easier for more citizens to start businesses or make more money, which allows for more people to cover necessities and afford luxuries, and therefore increase the amount of tax paid.

A fair and equal society is a prosperous society.

>but someone like you and I paying 4 digits/m in taxes and complaining about millionaires helping the economy, hiring people, and still needing to pay 33% of their total income in taxes is very, very sad.
I'm a millionaire, and an employer.

I'm just curious how much you actually know about us.

we move jobs overseas to save on labor costs, not generally to avoid taxes. Taxes have almost nothing to do with that, and lowering taxes won't fix it.

No they're paying closer to 40. Irrelevant, as you are still wrong. For the income ranges I described, which are 10M+ (read), 40% is nothing. A person making 6M a year post tax (plus a nice tax return because no one actually pays 40% after that) can and does live a life more comfortable than anyone, and still has enough left over to save up/lever up to buy part or all of basically any private company/JV/property. 3-4M in taxes, at this level, is marginal, and does not actually impact the buying or investing power for someone with this kind of wealth. This is because of credit/LBO shit, and the rest of the economy, which is paid for by that marginal tax loss.

I am not saying they should have no taxes, their taxes should be equal to everyone else.

>need for schools
kek, debatable... different issue

>if you take more of my income in taxes I will just make more income.
What?? that doesnt even make sense. If you are taxed more, how are you making more revenue?

>A $15/h employee costs more around $20/h when accounting payroll taxes, etc.
also you're grossly underestimating that.

>If you are taxed more, how are you making more revenue?
by expanding. Growth. I borrow money and grow my biz.

granted most people do that anyways, but if you tax me more I'm going to do it more.

>I am not saying they should have no taxes, their taxes should be equal to everyone else.
they're unequal because they scam us hard.

its an attempt to equalize that.

they make billions simply siphoning the stock market with massive pump and dumps that add no wealth at all.

they pay chinks 50 cents an hour to make everything and pocket the difference instead.

you can steal from the bottom all you want since they're fucking retarded, but the worse it gets for them the more irrational they get. all you have to do is look at how much support bernie got to see that they're starting to get angry.

you don't even have to give them very much to keep them calm, we've just pushed way too far at this point.

r9k can, you should go there.

A good idea for whom?

Just a friendly reminder, too many poor and too few rich will lead to a revolt 100% of the time.

>I'm a millionaire, and an employer.
>how much you know about us

I fucking lol'd. ;)

I won't project though. I'll assume you are.

>we move jobs overseas to save on labor costs
That is first of all not accurate to many other businesses (ie. Amazon,Apple, many other companies with accounts in Switzerland)

I know this for fact : No business owner moves his business overseas because they want to hire the Chinese for $5/h rather than an employee in US for $15/h. You do understand that the reason many factories and items are manufactured in places like China are NOT because they are sneaking their way out of paying employees high.You are delusional if you think that.

It's because, as I was (perhas trying if I didnt?) is costs (not only taxes) are lower. Primarily, manufacturing in China is MARGINALLY cheaper in China than here.

Also, its not bad for china because they are taking jobs and receiving the money. The employees are worth whatever they are paid and accepting there. It hurts us here because now we are left without many jobs and, primarily you can blame the people crying "$15/h!!!". Now businesses have to compete with other businesses who hire cheap labor and have to resort to that because the government is trying to increase their spending even more.

>manufacturing in China is MARGINALLY cheaper in China than here.
lmao fucking retard confirmed.

you have no idea what the numbers are you piece of shit.

yes, this is kinda what I was getting at here.

you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about so nothing can be proven to you or even sensible discussed.

I meant to add "solely".

"no business owner moves his businesses overseas solely bceause he is trying to rip off an employee in US for $15 than pay someone in china $5 because he wants more money to buy a new house" There are many, many reasons. Yes taxes being one of them

>sensible
sensibly
thanks autocorrect

it's not about ripping a US worker off.

it's about paying $.03/hour instead of $30.

and with shareholders you have a DUTY to save that money. And with competitors you can't avoid it.

I try to resort the ad hominids , but fuck it. I cant

HAHHA you guys are fucking retarded. LMAO

>hurr derrrr im a millionaire!!! im an employer
fuck off you broke faggot lmao

you're fucking autistic you faggot,
entrepreneur.com/article/269783
stick to $10/h and crying about low pays you broke minimum wage faggot

lol says the faggot bragging about being a millionaire and literally says "countries move overseas NOT because of taxes"

lol kill yourself you fucking retard

> (You)
>you're fucking autistic you faggot,
>entrepreneur.com/article/269783
>stick to $10/h and crying about low pays you broke minimum wage faggot

>retard tries to manufacture in china
>fails at it
>im supposed to believe him that its only marginally cheaper

good try nigger.

I'm not trying to be mean.

until you actually learn what it costs to employ someone in the US and in China we haven't got anything to talk about.

I already know, and you're WAY off on both counts. You grossly underestimate payroll taxes and grossly overestimate what a Chinese factory worker gets paid.

it's fine, it's not like you need to know these things. We just can't talk about them if you don't know them.

>I'm not trying to be mean.
Sorry that other retarded faggot keeps pissing in the thread and pissing me off.

>until you actually learn what it costs to employ someone in the US and in China we haven't got anything to talk about.
Employee wages are most expensive asset for a business owner. I get that. And I see what you're saying. How companies will try to move to China to get out of paying that.

But the thing is that part of that is because the government is demanding such a high price for employees. $12, $13, $15/h will kill many businesses, and many needs lots of labor. Which will result in moving overseas, you know what I mean?

I want to discuss, my last post was overboard.

>But the thing is that part of that is because the government is demanding such a high price for employees. $12, $13, $15/h will kill many businesses, and many needs lots of labor. Which will result in moving overseas, you know what I mean?
You're trying to play the game of the jew and you're failing.

We're not after small fry's like you, we're after the giga kikes at the top now.

If you weren't so fucking retarded you would realize that we're on your side right now.

Once we force the kikes to play fair, you will have a very nice advantage in the market since you've been paying fair wages for a long time now and they haven't.

Yeah i'll just move my burger flippers to Cambodia

fucking retard

all I'm saying is taxes here are extremely high, but dropping them to 0 still won't make American labor competitive because Americans flat out get paid far more than Chinese or even Mexican.

and since you're being nice and pretending to believe I'm a millionaire business owner, I have only one thing to say-

our taxes are way higher than average, but we don't actually have to claim our income most of the time. So the result is I may indeed pay 40% or more in income taxes, but I don't actually try to make income. I dump 80% or more of my income into things you can't tax, or tax at a much lower rate, or tax only when I sell them.

this is actually how you build a rich person. Make reinvesting money more lucrative than taking it to the bank. Taxes accomplish this. I pour money into the economy because it's better than paying taxes on it. I get rich indirectly.

to an extent, but when you start trying to tax people with lots of assets, you take money that they would have simply reinvested back in the markets and the economy and just give it to the poor (which is hurting them because now they are having trouble finding employment, higher pay).

> salaries = employer more scared to hire, hire less.

in regards to claiming assets on nontaxable things, like what? I know stocks usually aren't taxable until you sell, meaning if the rich do that, they are doing it to get out of paying taxes- the money sitting in a stock isnt helping the economy near where if it was reinvested into expanding business or hiring

>you take money that they would have simply reinvested back in the markets and the economy and just give it to the poor
except we pay taxes on what's left over AFTER we buy assets, not before. So you can't tax money that would've been reinvested,
you can only reinvest money that would've been taxed.

>in regards to claiming assets on nontaxable things, like what?
well any tangible items will be purchased tax free, depreciated, used to make money, and then taxed at a much lower rate on a much reduced value when they're finally sold.

but in practice you can reinvest income into intangibles that increase the value of your business without paying any tax at all. For example I took part of my income and paid someone to do my job. Then I retire. Of course I don't pay any taxes on that, and it vastly improves my personal quality of life. But I also buy advertising, better employees, trade licenses and certifications, supplies, charitable giving, all kinds of things that I will never pay taxes on but improve the value of my business.

I may one day have to pay taxes on that value if I sell the biz, but my tax rate will be less than half of what I would've paid on income.